Money matters

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Re: Money matters

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:28 pm

Probably a better point of view. But as Dillion sang “The Times They Are A Changin”.



IF THE YUAN COMPETES WITH THE DOLLAR


Clash of the currencies
The yuan’s rise will challenge America, but not before China changes.

http://worldif.economist.com/article/6/ ... currencies
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Re: Money matters

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Apr 18, 2016 4:53 am

BKKBILL wrote:IF THE YUAN COMPETES WITH THE DOLLAR

Clash of the currencies
The yuan’s rise will challenge America, but not before China changes.

I'm becoming more and more disappointed with the Economist lately, all they do is hedge their bets the whole time, which makes the article half-arsed nonsense. They should have stuck with their first paragraph where they quoted that IF the Yuan ever does play a role, it will not be for 15 years and then China will have to get her act together.
I can recall the same scaremongering when the Euro first came onto the market and everyone said it would destroy the Pound and the Dollar. It did neither, it was just another currency to trade in or purchase commodities with.
The problem is all the financial guru writers actually believe what they write and all they have is a degree in journalism. Not that a degree in finance would make them any brighter.
And China being a Communist country only has control of what happens in China and their leaders are not the brightest stars in the sky at times. Everybody talks about Stalin and Hitler as the the biggest murderers of all times, but that mantle actually goes to Mao Tse Tung with some of his policies, agreed to by the polit bureau, like the dig deeper, grow more policy that killed half the population with starvation. And looking back even further you find they killed off (the ones who didn't flee) all their brilliant pottery makers from the Ming/Qing Dynasty onwards ...... just because the west wanted to buy it.
If you can get your hands on this book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Swans and the latest one by Jung Chang and her British husband (about Mao) you'll find the plot has not changed at all and both are banned from entering China ever again, under threat of death, you'll have an almost perfect picture about why China will not progress beyond Communism for at least 30 years...... a bit like "electing" a KGB officer (Putin) to rule Russia after Communism died and look at it today.
Money comes from natural resources, and if it doesn't (look at Japan), then it comes from commodities that come from those natural resources, so unless China get their sticky little fingers on the Spratly Islands they are going to be using coal for the next 20 years to supply their power, and their coal is possibly one of most polluting types (brown, full of sulphur), they are never going to become a threat to the financial markets, no matter if they stockpile all the gold in the world and they are never going to live up to their agreements about pollution. But their leadership doesn't see this because their leadership thinks the west is stupid and China's education system is not the best.... a little like Thailand's.
Anyway, it ain't gonna happen soon Bill, so the man beating "doom doom" on the drum is a little early. I wonder how all the Chinese LPGA professionals will be paid? In dollars or Yuan. And how China will pay all its debts to US companies?
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Re: Money matters

Postby MGV12 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:10 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:so unless China get their sticky little fingers on the Spratly Islands


You mean 'that' China and 'these' islands? http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/04/12 ... -move.html

Surely they are cutting back on conquering the World:

china-anniversary.jpg


China_military_spending_464gr.gif


alibaba-s-sales-volume-surpassed-those-of-amazon-and-ebay-combined-not-just-in-china-everywhere.png


Evil.jpg


And now for the good news .................... :)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Money matters

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:40 pm

MGV12 wrote:Surely they are cutting back on conquering the World:

Ah, but have you read the Fox news or listened to it. There are a number of glaring mistakes, especially about fighter planes and comparing them to US fighters , let alone saying they are a clone of the Russian counterpart. (All Russian fighters start with the letter "F" I.E. Foxlol, Flogger, Flanker) but I wouldn't compare them to a US fighter, especially not two totally different fighter/bombers (both old and out of date).
And as I posted in Disasters they have been there before, as have the radar systems for the air to air missiles, the question is when and on what they will use them against. It's like the old Cold War with Russia without the vodka this time. Will the Chinese military blink first or will they reconsider their position, especially after destroying their one and only true allied nation, North Korea at the UN recently.
I think the US will venture forth once more, once they have a secure airfield in the Philippines where they don't have to worry about how much fuel their carriers can carry. And I think if the US was smart they would bring out their drones and show China just how far developed they are in unmanned fighter and bomber jets, but they might be doing that as we speak, or they could fly their stealth fighters over the islands and use their satellites to take photos of them without a squawk coming from the old antiquated Chinese radar.
I'll leave you with this thought: if the Chinese were to do something stupid and actually shoot at a US plane or ship from one of the islands, the island itself would disappear of the world map within a 1 hour. Be excellent practice for the long range tomahawks and cruise missiles fired from their nuclear submarines somewhere in the world.
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Re: Money matters

Postby MGV12 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:20 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
MGV12 wrote:Surely they are cutting back on conquering the World:

Ah, but have you read the Fox news or listened to it. There are a number of glaring mistakes, especially about fighter planes and comparing them to US fighters , let alone saying they are a clone of the Russian counterpart. (All Russian fighters start with the letter "F" I.E. Foxlol, Flogger, Flanker) but I wouldn't compare them to a US fighter, especially not two totally different fighter/bombers (both old and out of date).


Testing the water [which is officially all 'their' island is] could be done with secondhand [ex-Russian] Mig-9's.

Roger Ramjet wrote:the island itself would disappear of the world map within a 1 hour.


But of course you and I [and a few others] know the 'island' isn't actually on any official world map ... as [prior to their arrival] it was merely a 'maritime feature' with no rights nor jurisdiction in maritime or any other international law. Still the case as I read it.

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Re: Money matters

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:56 pm

MGV12 wrote:But of course you and I [and a few others] know the 'island' isn't actually on any official world map ... as [prior to their arrival] it was merely a 'maritime feature' with no rights nor jurisdiction in maritime or any other international law. Still the case as I read it.

Exactly MGV12, but that hasn't worried the Chinese military so far, except when that damned cheeky US battle cruiser sat just offshore for over an hour and jammed all their signals, thumbed their noses at them and then cruised around the underwater reef that is not a island. And, to add insult to injury, those bloody Australians flew one of their Air Force Orion's over the underwater (now above water) "islands" and it's one of the slowest aircraft on the planet earth, and of course China screamed loud and long and threatened and postulated about sovereign rights, but forgot about International Law and air space.
This will continue as is until China recognise International Law and the ruling from the International Courts of Justice (which they currently refuse to recognise because the ruling was against them).
The question remains, which country will blink first.
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Re: Money matters

Postby pipoz » Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:30 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
MGV12 wrote:But of course you and I [and a few others] know the 'island' isn't actually on any official world map ... as [prior to their arrival] it was merely a 'maritime feature' with no rights nor jurisdiction in maritime or any other international law. Still the case as I read it.

Exactly MGV12, but that hasn't worried the Chinese military so far, except when that damned cheeky US battle cruiser sat just offshore for over an hour and jammed all their signals, thumbed their noses at them and then cruised around the underwater reef that is not a island. And, to add insult to injury, those bloody Australians flew one of their Air Force Orion's over the underwater (now above water) "islands" and it's one of the slowest aircraft on the planet earth, and of course China screamed loud and long and threatened and postulated about sovereign rights, but forgot about International Law and air space.
This will continue as is until China recognise International Law and the ruling from the International Courts of Justice (which they currently refuse to recognise because the ruling was against them).
The question remains, which country will blink first.


The Chinese wont blink first.

They have bigger balls than Australia and the USA

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Re: Money matters

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:54 pm

pipoz wrote:The Chinese wont blink first.

They have bigger balls than Australia and the USA

Pipoz,
They also have dependants, like Hong Kong, Tibet, and a whole lot more to worry about, and worry they do, hence the Great Fire Wall, the Yuan, and trading partners. This whole "exercise" was aimed at making friends in Asia and Asean and all they have done is made enemies (except for Thailand), sent their currency in a downward spiral and pissed off free trading nations into looking into Chinese Government purchases.
There's been a backlash in Australia where they lost the right to purchase a lot of land and legislation has been pushed through to revoke leases on other ventures at the slightest hint of not playing by the rules. The EU is not exactly happy with them either as a trading partner and their biggest buyer, the US can move their companies elsewhere. All in all the Chinese Military have been very stupid, which is why they tried to "kiss and make up" last week by condemning North Korea's missile launches.
The world did without China as a trading partner for years, so why would they get worried now?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... -relations
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/ ... k44p/China
If you read those papers carefully you'll find China has far too much to lose than gain by its military actions.
Honk Kong alone being wiped off the trading map would put China back 50 years and back into the 70s all over again. Would it be worth it over the Spratly Islands? No, it wouldn't, because the International Court of Justice has already ruled against them.
www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/feb516bf-9d ... na-and-the
Would China be stupid enough to start a world war over the issue? No, not whilst they have so much more at stake. China doesn't have balls, it has a Communist Party that thinks the rest of the world will bow to thuggish behavoir, which it won't.
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Re: Money matters

Postby pipoz » Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:26 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
pipoz wrote:The Chinese wont blink first.

They have bigger balls than Australia and the USA

Pipoz,
They also have dependants, like Hong Kong, Tibet, and a whole lot more to worry about, and worry they do, hence the Great Fire Wall, the Yuan, and trading partners. This whole "exercise" was aimed at making friends in Asia and Asean and all they have done is made enemies (except for Thailand), sent their currency in a downward spiral and pissed off free trading nations into looking into Chinese Government purchases.
There's been a backlash in Australia where they lost the right to purchase a lot of land and legislation has been pushed through to revoke leases on other ventures at the slightest hint of not playing by the rules. The EU is not exactly happy with them either as a trading partner and their biggest buyer, the US can move their companies elsewhere. All in all the Chinese Military have been very stupid, which is why they tried to "kiss and make up" last week by condemning North Korea's missile launches.
The world did without China as a trading partner for years, so why would they get worried now?
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-of ... -relations
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/ ... k44p/China
If you read those papers carefully you'll find China has far too much to lose than gain by its military actions.
Honk Kong alone being wiped off the trading map would put China back 50 years and back into the 70s all over again. Would it be worth it over the Spratly Islands? No, it wouldn't, because the International Court of Justice has already ruled against them.
http://www.usnwc.edu/getattachment/feb5 ... na-and-the
Would China be stupid enough to start a world war over the issue? No, not whilst they have so much more at stake. China doesn't have balls, it has a Communist Party that thinks the rest of the world will bow to thuggish behavoir, which it won't.


Roger,

China won’t start a war over the Islands, they don't need to, but then again neither with USA and Australia certainly wouldn't or couldn't for that matter

Granted the world did without China for a long time but recent events in China just indicate how dependent the World Economics have become dependent when it come to being able to sell their Commodities to China. China will never stop buying Commodities as it too needs them for it growth, but what China can do, is source some of them elsewhere, i.e. from places such as from Russia, Africa and the South American continents, and say F….U to Australia. This would hurt Australia's economy related to Natural Gas (North est Shelf), Coal exports from Queensland etc and naturally iron Ore - A lot of Australian jobs are connected to these industries and a lot of Australian politicians feed of them.

Granted China needs to sell what it produces, ideally to the West and Europe, so it’s a delicate balancing act, Commercial needs vs Political Strength, but the south China sea has what China needs/want - Natural gas and Oil.

The USA and China might and can rattle their Sabers against each other as they are Big Boys, but Australia well it’s out of their league in this issue - Australia vs China would be like a mouse on an elephants back trying to have a shag, in this argument or fight, commercially and militarily.

Remember the USA did not pull out any big stick when Putin took Crimea and a small chunck of Ukraine. Neither did the Europe for that matter. So I can see either the USA or Europe doing much more the South China Seas, certainly not with that wimp (Obama) in place.

The other thing is that, China has patience and Mr. Xi Jinping and his mates are in power for 10 years. Whereas USA and Australia change their political leaders and policies every 4 years, and so change their commercial allegiances. Money (economic trade) and jobs speak very loud these days in the West

My money is on Russia and China to win these two world land grab battles, with other like USA and Australia just making a few noises or posturing in the background. Russia and China with a commercial and political pact would make a formidable foe.


Footnote: China is dominating the worlds steel supplies and markets, (only pays 9% tax in steel imported to Europe) and recent events with TATA in UK have shown this. China can dump (on the World Markets) products such as steel and others, which the World needs, at cheap subsidized prices and others will buy it, with the Politicians nearly powerless to stop it. Politicians are s**t scared about starting Trade War with China or re-introducing Import Tariffs to on Imports, in Europe and UK and I suspect also in Australia - Again Trade Tariffs between is a delicate balancing act by itself and few want to upset the status Quo

Just my two cents worth

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Re: Money matters

Postby pipoz » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:36 pm

Opps I should have said

"Remember the USA did not pull out any big stick when Putin took Crimea and also took a small chunck of Ukraine. Neither did the Europe for that matter.

So I can't see either the USA or Europe doing much more in the South China Seas. Certainly not with that wimp (Obama) in place".

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Re: Money matters

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:50 pm

pipoz wrote:My money is on Russia and China to win these two world land grab battles, with other like USA and Australia just making a few noises or posturing in the background. Russia and China with a commercial and political pact would make a formidable foe.

How did Russia suddenly become part of the South China Sea land grab? As far as military wise is concerned, I doubt you read what the Admiral in charge of CINPAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ic_Command had to say when he "suggested" that the US would be very happy if Australia flew in International Airspace over the disputed islands on a regular basis with its Orion aircraft, just to let the Chinese know it is still International Airspace, and that those aircraft would be protected by US Navy assets in the area.
The US Navy also conducts freedom of the seas exercises in those areas on a regular basis, like once a week and China has now blinked twice and I gave you the times they blinked with a guided missile cruiser sitting within 14 miles of one of the islands for over an hour and then cruising around the island for the next 23 just to give the Chinese time to get their submarines and frigates into the area. The next time was when the Australian RAAF Orion flew over the same area, but I have to admit that the USS Nimitz was in first strike assistance range with Australian FA 18D hornets on board due to exercises at the time.
China ranted and raved at the UN but it was pointed out that the ICJ had already ruled that China had no claim to the submerged reefs. End of story.
As far as their products are concerned, I think the latest earthquake in Nepal showed the difference between Chinese rebar and even Indian rebar. I know which I would buy and it wouldn't be the cheap Chinese crap.
Why do some economists always talk about growth when there is little need for it. Iron ore and natural gas will stay in the ground until needed...there is no need to rush and rip it out and sell it to the cheapest buyer. The problem is greed. You won't find a new iPhone coming on the market just because the have improved the technology a little, they'll wait until their target of old iPhones are met first. Samsung rushed everything and nothing really worked and now most people won't buy Samsung not so smart, not so touchable screen disasters they rushed out to beat the iPhone release.
Your coal exports from Queensland you can forget about unless they build a port miles away from the Great Barrier Reef. They're dead in NSW too because the farmers said it was more profitable to use the soil on top to grow crops than dig the coal all out and give it to the Chinese. The Full Federal Court has also agreed so China has wasted millions in trying to get the locals on side. Dirty filthy stuff it is anyway, just go to China and see the problems it has caused.
pipoz wrote:My money is on Russia and China to win these two world land grab battles, with other like USA and Australia just making a few noises or posturing in the background. Russia and China with a commercial and political pact would make a formidable foe.

I hate to tell you this Pipoz, but Russian military dominance is just about dead with 70% of their fleet in harbour waiting repairs or fuel or sailors. Their fighter planes, some of the best in the world, are out of date as far as electronics are concerned because they can't afford to upgrade them....so they sell them. Their Army, excluding the Spetsnaz is a rag tag and bobtail outfit using the last of their equipment in shows of force, once that is gone, they have little in the way of supply. The Russian Mafia are better equipped than the Russian Armed Forces.
The Chinese have always relied on numbers, but it won't be a numbers game the next time, it will air and missile superiority, something the US knows only too well having more technicians than fighting troops. Even in Vietnam they had a 16 to 1 ratio: 16 soldiers supporting one combat soldier and its blown out since that time.
And I notice you don't mention the other players, like Vietnam with a large army, the Philippines and other ASEAN members with claims to the Spratly Islands, and then of course the heavy hitters like Japan, India, Taiwan, and NATO. I know which side I'd like to be on and it's not the Chinese or Russian, but I suppose they could rely on their African brothers to supply the cannon fodder.
As far as your worries about trade wars, it just won't happen not over steel with the WTO monitoring dumping the whole time and the EU handing out massive fines just for good measure.
A rush to greed was the problem and now the rush has ended let the world get back to normal trade.
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Re: Money matters

Postby pipoz » Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:29 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
pipoz wrote:My money is on Russia and China to win these two world land grab battles, with other like USA and Australia just making a few noises or posturing in the background. Russia and China with a commercial and political pact would make a formidable foe.

How did Russia suddenly become part of the South China Sea land grab? As far as military wise is concerned, I doubt you read what the Admiral in charge of CINPAC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... ic_Command had to say when he "suggested" that the US would be very happy if Australia flew in International Airspace over the disputed islands on a regular basis with its Orion aircraft, just to let the Chinese know it is still International Airspace, and that those aircraft would be protected by US Navy assets in the area.
The US Navy also conducts freedom of the seas exercises in those areas on a regular basis, like once a week and China has now blinked twice and I gave you the times they blinked with a guided missile cruiser sitting within 14 miles of one of the islands for over an hour and then cruising around the island for the next 23 just to give the Chinese time to get their submarines and frigates into the area. The next time was when the Australian RAAF Orion flew over the same area, but I have to admit that the USS Nimitz was in first strike assistance range with Australian FA 18D hornets on board due to exercises at the time.
China ranted and raved at the UN but it was pointed out that the ICJ had already ruled that China had no claim to the submerged reefs. End of story.
As far as their products are concerned, I think the latest earthquake in Nepal showed the difference between Chinese rebar and even Indian rebar. I know which I would buy and it wouldn't be the cheap Chinese crap.
Why do some economists always talk about growth when there is little need for it. Iron ore and natural gas will stay in the ground until needed...there is no need to rush and rip it out and sell it to the cheapest buyer. The problem is greed. You won't find a new iPhone coming on the market just because the have improved the technology a little, they'll wait until their target of old iPhones are met first. Samsung rushed everything and nothing really worked and now most people won't buy Samsung not so smart, not so touchable screen disasters they rushed out to beat the iPhone release.
Your coal exports from Queensland you can forget about unless they build a port miles away from the Great Barrier Reef. They're dead in NSW too because the farmers said it was more profitable to use the soil on top to grow crops than dig the coal all out and give it to the Chinese. The Full Federal Court has also agreed so China has wasted millions in trying to get the locals on side. Dirty filthy stuff it is anyway, just go to China and see the problems it has caused.
pipoz wrote:My money is on Russia and China to win these two world land grab battles, with other like USA and Australia just making a few noises or posturing in the background. Russia and China with a commercial and political pact would make a formidable foe.

I hate to tell you this Pipoz, but Russian military dominance is just about dead with 70% of their fleet in harbour waiting repairs or fuel or sailors. Their fighter planes, some of the best in the world, are out of date as far as electronics are concerned because they can't afford to upgrade them....so they sell them. Their Army, excluding the Spetsnaz is a rag tag and bobtail outfit using the last of their equipment in shows of force, once that is gone, they have little in the way of supply. The Russian Mafia are better equipped than the Russian Armed Forces.
The Chinese have always relied on numbers, but it won't be a numbers game the next time, it will air and missile superiority, something the US knows only too well having more technicians than fighting troops. Even in Vietnam they had a 16 to 1 ratio: 16 soldiers supporting one combat soldier and its blown out since that time.
And I notice you don't mention the other players, like Vietnam with a large army, the Philippines and other ASEAN members with claims to the Spratly Islands, and then of course the heavy hitters like Japan, India, Taiwan, and NATO. I know which side I'd like to be on and it's not the Chinese or Russian, but I suppose they could rely on their African brothers to supply the cannon fodder.
As far as your worries about trade wars, it just won't happen not over steel with the WTO monitoring dumping the whole time and the EU handing out massive fines just for good measure.
A rush to greed was the problem and now the rush has ended let the world get back to normal trade.


Once again Roger you are interpreting what was said, the wrong way :o

Re. "How did Russia suddenly become part of the South China Sea land grab" - It didn't and that is not what I said or inferred. My comment re Russia and its action in Crimea & Ukraine, was simply to point out how weak the USA Political Will really is, at present, when it comes to real or actual direct intervention in conflict, outside its borders.

Re."And I notice you don't mention the other players, like Vietnam with a large army, the Philippines and other ASEAN members with claims to the Spratly Islands, Then of course the heavy hitters like Japan, India, Taiwan, and NATO"

Donald Trump was right about NATO.
As for the Philippines they couldn't contribute even a Banana to the issue.
As for India, well they cant even build Toilets in India, so not much hope for a contribution from their wooden ships
As for Taiwan, it would be pretty hypocritical of then to get involved, given how their fishing fleets pilfer the sea life all over the world in other Ocean's in everyone's backyard. Pretty rude of Taiwan to lay claim to any part of the ocean, when they don't respect the sea limits of other Countries

You are backing the wrong horses in this race :roll:

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Re: Money matters

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:30 pm

pipoz wrote:You are backing the wrong horses in this race

Sorry to inform you but a defence paper was written back in 1970 by a US Special Forces Staff Sergeant all about the Spratly Islands and the aims and objectives of China as soon as Vietnam was over. He's been totally right so far.
Why is it you go off on tangents all the time, what does Taiwan's military have to do with fishing and I notice you avoided Japan. The reason I mentioned them is because they are all claimants in one form or another to various parts of the Spratly Islands and have won in the ICJ and the UN. The claim by China their fishermen used to shelter on the islands 200 years ago didn't wash as there were no visible islands in those days.
China is already losing this one badly and it's the reason their Yuan is being devalued so quickly.
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Re: Money matters

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 pm

pipoz wrote:Footnote: China is dominating the worlds steel supplies and markets, (only pays 9% tax in steel imported to Europe) and recent events with TATA in UK have shown this. China can dump (on the World Markets) products such as steel and others, which the World needs, at cheap subsidized prices and others will buy it, with the Politicians nearly powerless to stop it. Politicians are s**t scared about starting Trade War with China or re-introducing Import Tariffs to on Imports, in Europe and UK and I suspect also in Australia - Again Trade Tariffs between is a delicate balancing act by itself and few want to upset the status Quo

The one thing politicians from any country are not scared to do is start a trade war with China. China has barely enough, sometimes not enough food to feed herself and her citizens, let alone provide them with gainful employment and the ones allowed to start out on the capitalist road to success, like the polit bureau kids that are rolling in dad's wealth are sending the country broke with mad cap ideas, schemes and investments.
Hong Kong cannot and will not prop up the failing Yuan, nor will they carry mainland debt being forced on them and Taiwan wants nothing to do with the mainland either. The only answer is the Spratly Islands/reefs with its abundance of oil etc etc. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-24/c ... mb/7439844
China is dooming herself under the current leadership. They have gone back to the Mao years of digging deeper, reaping greater. China is broke. No wonder the world bank accepted their currency on the world market and no wonder it's trading at a pittance.
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Re: Money matters

Postby BKKBILL » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:36 pm

$65 MILLION STOLEN

Bitcoin tanks after Hong Kong exchange breach

HONG KONG - A major Hong Kong-based Bitcoin exchange has suspended trading after $65 million in the virtual unit was reportedly stolen by hackers -- sending the digital currency plunging more than 20 per cent.

The rest is at

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakin ... 92048.html
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