House Extension to "Baan Thai"….what happened next?

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Re: House Extension to "Baan Thai"….what happened next?

Postby Klondyke » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:55 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:You are getting confused between the cost of putting up the wall ( cheaper with AAC) and the cost of render (very slightly cheaper per bag of pre mixed AAC render used as a base coat)

AAC blocks are faster, easier, and cheaper to build with than the cinder blocks you talk about and are increasingly used in villages around here wherever people (not falangs) are building something.


I might be confused, however, how the building with AAC can be cheaper than with cinder blocks? Once I had here given some figures for comparison. How many cinder blocks can be bought for the price of one AAC making the same size of the wall?

And the putting up the wall with AAC goes cheaper? faster? By how many seconds? And by saving the cheap sand/cement for mortar?

And the rendering goes (very slightly) cheaper? With the pre-mixed bags bought so "cheaply" in contrast to the locally mixed cement/sand? (bag of cement for 110 baht, truck of sand 3 - 4 m3 = ca. 500 Baht)?

Beside all the cost comparison, there is one "very slight" aspect: local sustainability: All the materials and workmanship are obtained locally, without feeding the many marking-up steps in the market chain of multi construction companies, thus supporting the local people. The blocks are made in a village nearby by a simple machine made by local people, using cement and local sand, the blocks brought to site by an old pickup. (oh yes, the cement is made also by multi, but not so far and quite cheap, that's cannot be substituted )...

And one more - not so negligible aspect - even if not very often used in Thailand: When building the wall by doubled cinder blocks with a cavity in-between and with suitably added (slight) reinforcement - the wall can be self standing, thus no need for the column construction - "sau" - and the difficult wooden formwork for beams above. That results in a very substantial saving on cost and construction time - beside getting a real Cool Thai House...
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Re: House Extension to "Baan Thai"….what happened next?

Postby eyecatcher » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:21 pm

Klondyke wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
You are getting confused between the cost of putting up the wall ( cheaper with AAC) and the cost of render (very slightly cheaper per bag of pre mixed AAC render used as a base coat)

AAC blocks are faster, easier, and cheaper to build with than the cinder blocks you talk about and are increasingly used in villages around here wherever people (not falangs) are building something.


I might be confused, however, how the building with AAC can be cheaper than with cinder blocks? Once I had here given some figures for comparison. How many cinder blocks can be bought for the price of one AAC making the same size of the wall?

And the putting up the wall with AAC goes cheaper? faster? By how many seconds? And by saving the cheap sand/cement for mortar?

And the rendering goes (very slightly) cheaper? With the pre-mixed bags bought so "cheaply" in contrast to the locally mixed cement/sand? (bag of cement for 110 baht, truck of sand 3 - 4 m3 = ca. 500 Baht)?

Beside all the cost comparison, there is one "very slight" aspect: local sustainability: All the materials and workmanship are obtained locally, without feeding the many marking-up steps in the market chain of multi construction companies, thus supporting the local people. The blocks are made in a village nearby by a simple machine made by local people, using cement and local sand, the blocks brought to site by an old pickup. (oh yes, the cement is made also by multi, but not so far and quite cheap, that's cannot be substituted )...

And one more - not so negligible aspect - even if not very often used in Thailand: When building the wall by doubled cinder blocks with a cavity in-between and with suitably added (slight) reinforcement - the wall can be self standing, thus no need for the column construction - "sau" - and the difficult wooden formwork for beams above. That results in a very substantial saving on cost and construction time - beside getting a real Cool Thai House...



I am not clear as to which team you are batting for, the AAC or the brick and block, however if you have followed my thread you will realise I am a strong advocate for AAC and I have proved at least 3 times (well every time I order a load of aac) that aac is easily the cheapest, quickest, easiest method to build walls.

insulation qualities aside, these blocks are glued in seconds for 1bt per block, cut in seconds with a hand saw, holes punched out neatly and accurately and one 75mm block costs the same as 6 bricks. there is no waste at all. well on my boundary wall, the waste didnt fill a sand bag and on this small room i am left with 1 block and a bucket of waste cuts.

The list goes on and on with negatives on these clinker blocks. Yes I have also documented them being made but really you only have to look at them and they crumble apart. You cant cut holes through them, your mortar expense goes thro the roof just bedding them down, a real waste of sand and cement.

Use them in a cavity wall?....I wouldn't, they are not load bearing, not even thick enough at 60mm and what you spend in filling the cavity with concrete and looking for wall ties, we go back to why they use concrete columns.

As for rendering, well i can only give you my amateur experience but the render for aac is already pre mixed with additives and retarders to slow down the drying process because these blocks are likes sponges. i tried standard sand and cement render on these blocks but in the sun and i couldn't work fast enough. I was like a cartoon character trying to get in on the wall before it dried out.
aac blocks do need a lot of water before rendering and whilst the mix is perfectly smooth i think it takes more skill than i have acquired to get a good finish. a standard sand render is easier to make look good but the finish somewhat more abrasive.
but i have noticed several times that moo baans being built from AAC, then I see the artic delivery of standard cement render so they can mix it with their 3 ton pile of sand. not sure if they think they are saving something but its the wrong product to be even putting on these blocks.
still....someone has convinced them aac blocks are cheaper and quicker so its a start.
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Re: House Extension to "Baan Thai"….what happened next?

Postby eyecatcher » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:51 pm

Chapter 15 day 17

A late start but much better output today. I realized I have been making my mix a bit on the sloppy side so I have thickened todays batch with the intention of getting it on in one go and flattening it out straightaway.

It worked because I completed the first panel under the window in about 20 minutes.
DSC_0009.JPG


My next panel was awkward being the back of the dwarf wall but then I moved onto the two walls outside where the basin will be fitted.

DSC_0010.JPG


DSC_0008.JPG


I have added another 5m2 to the tally and I am left with just the large areas which should be easier if I get an early start.

When I mentioned to Wasu that my days are now too long waiting for this render to dry she suggested that I could do the outside walls “rough” and thought it was trendy. :roll:

Well I can do rough dead easy, infact I can do rough blindfolded…..but if it doesn’t look artistically rough then it will just look like I have tried to make it smooth but its just rough. :lol:

Well, that’s what I have turned out already! :)
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Re: House Extension to "Baan Thai"….what happened next?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:24 pm

Klondyke wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:You are getting confused between the cost of putting up the wall ( cheaper with AAC) and the cost of render (very slightly cheaper per bag of pre mixed AAC render used as a base coat)

AAC blocks are faster, easier, and cheaper to build with than the cinder blocks you talk about and are increasingly used in villages around here wherever people (not falangs) are building something.


I might be confused, however, how the building with AAC can be cheaper than with cinder blocks? Once I had here given some figures for comparison. How many cinder blocks can be bought for the price of one AAC making the same size of the wall?



The difference in size means that you need 1.6 times the number of cinder blocks to equal the area of 1 AAC block


And the putting up the wall with AAC goes cheaper? faster? By how many seconds? And by saving the cheap sand/cement for mortar?


The average I've seen is about 3 times faster at a minimum to build AAC. The cheap sand and cement adds a significant amount to the time and cost. You use about 5 times as much cement with a proportional amount of sand for a given area of wall, so you pay about 5 times more for your cheap mortar than the cost of the glue. That is ignoring the amount of mortar wasted

And the rendering goes (very slightly) cheaper? With the pre-mixed bags bought so "cheaply" in contrast to the locally mixed cement/sand? (bag of cement for 110 baht, truck of sand 3 - 4 m3 = ca. 500 Baht)?



I didn't say much about the render as there is virtually no difference in amount of render used between the systems.

However if you are mixing your render locally you have to factor in the time needed (long) to put the sand through a fine sieve


And one more - not so negligible aspect - even if not very often used in Thailand: When building the wall by doubled cinder blocks with a cavity in-between and with suitably added (slight) reinforcement - the wall can be self standing, thus no need for the column construction - "sau" - and the difficult wooden formwork for beams above. That results in a very substantial saving on cost and construction time - beside getting a real Cool Thai House...


That aspect is virtually irrelevant as it's almost impossible to find anyone who will build like that, and even more difficult to find any examples of that construction in use.

You have very conveniently decided to ignore the difference in insulation value between AAC block, good, and cinderblocks, virtually none.
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Re: House Extension to "Baan Thai"….what happened next?

Postby eyecatcher » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:37 pm

Chapter 15 day 18

The learning curve continues. I have learned to make an early start so that I get more done!! :wink:

And it worked. I rattled off the outside of the long wall it seemed in 90 minutes. I gave the wall a good soaking first and made an effort to lay on the backing coat fast and then following up with the final skim.

DSC_0012.JPG


DSC_0013.JPG


It was drying very fast but by midday it was done. :)

Loads of time left now to do the reverse side. The other side was 300mm higher and it was about 500mm longer also.

I tried to continue the same procedure but I failed. This could have been due to the fact that because this was inside the room I was a bit more reserved with the hosepipe soaking. :?:

1 (2).jpg


As a result my first coat mix was dry in less than 2 minutes and was making for what appeared to be a very rough finish.

But I keep reading about don’t panic when plastering, as you can always add on another coat and another until its right.

This was a long afternoon and I don’t mind admitting it but the sand paper came in very useful at the end!

DSC_0014.JPG


Afterwards I was also wondering if this other side was reacting differently to a Tiger brand of render mix. I have used qcon upto now but my stockist had depleted stocks apart from a 2 ton pile of bags that had already gone solid.

DSC_0015.JPG


Good day though, I have done 11m2

I have a section internally to do adjacent to the water tank and then the rear wall. Before I do the rear wall I am thinking to plant on a dummy window lath really just to improve the look of the window frame. There is also a long stretch of metal mesh to fit over the steal beam.

My 30 day target is already looking to fail having taken longer than I thought with the plastering but it will not be far off 40 days!!
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Re: House Extension to "Baan Thai"….what happened next?

Postby eyecatcher » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:09 pm

Chapter 15 day 19

I took a day off yesterday as I felt like I had been in the boxing ring with Tyson. :(

After three days consecutive plastering, my legs were aching with all the up and down movements and my fingers were pulsating and my knuckles were covered in abrasion scars. :cry: To add to it, I had also aggravated my sciatica which was receeding so the day was spent limping around. :(

It was a good month for us at the spa, in fact it was our best ever month in the 80 months we have been trading. After a fantastic 2014/15/16 last year saw quite a nosedive as that Chinese bubble had burst.

Its been common knowledge that the Chinese have been made to feel very unwelcome (join the club!) though of course it was denied and so last year the numbers were well down, certainly in Chiang Mai.

But since August when I predicted a resurgence, our monthly figures have improved month on month. This February has been fantastic, so much so that with our income from last Monday alone we have today treated the car to 4 new tyres and a full years motor insurance. :D Now I am going to talk about that day for a long time, it really doesn’t seem possible for a mid level spa such as ours.

I decided afterwards to hit the Global just for a browse. I need a new strip light for the fashion factory and another one to replace an old one I broke.

Big choice in strip lights and all around 200bt for a full set. However there wasn’t a big choice in warm white, there wasn’t any, nor cool white, there wasn’t any but you are fine if you like daylight…..and I hate it!

Lighting expert duly arrived and tried to help me :( :roll:

“Can I help you”

“Yes, I want a strip light warm white do you have”

“Mee, mee”

Oh that was a surprise…..but then she turned immediately to face and discuss with a colleague.

Ey up, she is now being told they don’t have so here comes the excuse……. :wink:

Together they walked up the aisle and handed me the only choice, a Philips warm white strip light. :cry: It was an all in one moulded hideous affair. I said I didn’t like it.

I continued to browse and she wouldn’t piss off. She was confusing things by saying this is LED and doesn’t have transformer, then saying that has transformer.

“So do I have to buy transformer”

“No”
(so why mention it)

I wandered off to escape her and she followed me….I came back and she followed me. :roll:

Then she caught me holding a Gata striplight 9w LED for 160BT. I was comparing it to the Panasonic

“This one not save energy”

“But this is 9w, so save energy with the 18w yes?”

“This Panasonic 8w….see?.......save more energy”

“But its only 1 watt”

“Ah no sir, you see this is blue, this mean energy saving; this one not blue”

“I think it makes no difference in my shed”

“And also if you need to change the bulb you cannot change for any bulb with Gata but with Panasonic can change any bulb”

“I am sorry but this bulb will last 15000 hours and It will be used for less than 1 hour a week. That means I only need to change it in 250 years……and the Panasonic is 20bt more expensive.”

I thanked her again, wandered off and picked up two Eve lighting strips for 175bt each.

When you look at the replacement tubes, they are only a few baht less than buying a complete new unit. It really is not an argument to bullshit on about certain product parts difficult to find or cannot do…we are in a throwaway society now and when something breaks, its often cheap enough just to buy new.

***

Well today I made a start on the final assault on the plastering but I didn’t finish it.

I still had an area inside adjacent to the water tanks to do. I cant get to all of it, but it doesn’t really matter.

DSC_0018.JPG


I am down to my last bag of render and I know for a fact that I will need another one in order to finish.
The beam across the head still needed cladding with expanded metal but this time I decided not to fold it in half as its quite difficult to keep it from floating trough the render.

DSC_0016.JPG


DSC_0019.JPG


DSC_0020.JPG


Another long day but I have dubbed out the first coat at the back and with a fresh bag of render tomorrow it shouldn’t take too long to skim on a better finish. :)

DSC_0021.JPG
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