Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

separate topics on:- measurement, puchasing, registration - Land filling, compacting and levelling - drainage and
anything else related to raw land!

Moderators: Sometimewoodworker, MGV12, BKKBILL

Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Wayne88 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:22 pm

Hi guys, new joiner here.

i've spent some time reading through all the land filling posts on here but i'm still unsure of what to do with my land.

Me and the Mrs have a 2 rai plot of land halfway between Udon Thani and Nong Khai. We have decided that we now want to get the ball rolling with preparing the land for building on. I don't expect to begin building for another 5 years or so but i want to get the land levelled and cleared now so its a least one part of the process done.

Some people on here say land fill should be compacted layers at a time and others have said it can be allowed to settle over time. With my intention of starting to build about 5 years away is it necessary to hire a roller and compact it or will it settle enough naturally over that length of time. I have no experience in the building trade whatsoever. is the affect of settling only an issue with slab foundations or does it affect pile foundations in the same way. what would be the best level to raise the land to. currently the land has one large fish pond on it and 2 shallow ponds, some parts of the land are slightly above road level and the rest either at or just below the road level. i was thinking of levelling it all, filling the ponds in and raising it by around 100mm above road level to allow for settling. The area does not flood my wife says.

My wife says the contractor we are using has provided land fill to many homes in the area including a rather large new build farang home close to our land sitting on at least 3 rai of land. As i can't be there for the land fill taking place is there anything i should make my wifes family aware of to watch out for? such as trucks not coming fully loaded, for them to keep an eye on the contents of the trucks making sure the land fill doesn't contain large amounts of vegetation and make sure they aren't clearing large trees and burying them on the land.

any advice would be much appreciated.

20160727_120500_resized_1.jpg
front left hand corner of the plot from the road


20160825_152410_resized.jpg
rear right corner looking back towards the road, pylons can just be seen


20160727_120507_resized_1.jpg
front left corner looking into the plot


20160727_120418_resized_1.jpg
front right corner of the plot


20160727_120151_resized_1.jpg
large fish pond of the previous owner i shall be filling in. in laws have already drained it
Wayne88
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Klondyke » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:08 pm

It is a nice plot large enough for a house and something around. Why not to rise the terrain only in the area where the house should be built? Then you can enjoy the natural shallow ponds implemented in the garden area. And the large pond can be later made use of for a swimming pool.

5 years is surely sufficient time enough for a natural settlement, whilst during/after the filling the additional earth will be compacted by leveling tractor anyway. And within 5 years you can get some more ideas from an architect or two how to make a decent living area, not just a plaza (as Thai people usually prefer)...
Klondyke
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby mikenot » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:35 pm

5 years is plenty of time to settle naturally. It will cost you a fair bit to fill all 2 rai, I would suggest just raising the house area and leave the ponds for drainage. Speaking of which I would also suggest that you want the house a finished height of at least 20 cms above the road and rest of land to allow a slope for drainage.
Re piles....if the piles do go down to solid base then setling should not be an issue for the house itself but paths driveways etc could subside and crack if the soil had not settled.
mikenot
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 6:47 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Klondyke » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:07 pm

Instead of piles - as usually made in Thailand (did you ever see the pylon style - as everywhere in Thailand - in your home country?) you can have a sturdy concrete ring in a trench (ca. 40x40cm) under the outside walls. Then to build the walls onto the ring without the usual pylons (Thai Sau). The ring has surely a larger foundation surface than the number of the pylons however deep they are. Finished within a week unlike the pylons will take some 2 - 3 weeks, not speaking about saving on the material and workmanship.

The walls can be built by double block with a gap in-between, thus self-standing, good insulating, with some vertical reinforcement in the corners and long walls, completely finished within 2 months.

Biggest your problem: to persuade the builder to make it without the "saus"... :D
Klondyke
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:12 am

Wayne88 wrote:Hi guys, new joiner here.

i've spent some time reading through all the land filling posts on here but i'm still unsure of what to do with my land.

Me and the Mrs have a 2 rai plot of land halfway between Udon Thani and Nong Khai. We have decided that we now want to get the ball rolling with preparing the land for building on. I don't expect to begin building for another 5 years or so but i want to get the land levelled and cleared now so its a least one part of the process done.

Some people on here say land fill should be compacted layers at a time and others have said it can be allowed to settle over time. With my intention of starting to build about 5 years away is it necessary to hire a roller and compact it or will it settle enough naturally over that length of time. I have no experience in the building trade whatsoever. is the affect of settling only an issue with slab foundations or does it affect pile foundations in the same way. what would be the best level to raise the land to. currently the land has one large fish pond on it and 2 shallow ponds, some parts of the land are slightly above road level and the rest either at or just below the road level. i was thinking of levelling it all, filling the ponds in and raising it by around 100mm above road level to allow for settling. The area does not flood my wife says.

My wife says the contractor we are using has provided land fill to many homes in the area including a rather large new build farang home close to our land sitting on at least 3 rai of land. As i can't be there for the land fill taking place is there anything i should make my wifes family aware of to watch out for? such as trucks not coming fully loaded, for them to keep an eye on the contents of the trucks making sure the land fill doesn't contain large amounts of vegetation and make sure they aren't clearing large trees and burying them on the land.

any advice would be much appreciated.



Hi we are about 75km south of you.

You may well have missed http://bit.ly/WaterhouseTimeLine

We used our own land to provide the fill for our house and at the beginning had the same area that you do, this reduced the cost per truck by a reasonable amount. Pools are dug for nothing the profit is in the fill.

You will need to use a tractor to level the fill and that will do some compacting, not much point in doing anything else. You should expect it to reduce by 30% over time. We did ours in two stages as we only started with a 3 meter deep pool, later SWMBO wanted it deeper so the extra earth went onto our house area.

We built 9 years after filling but 5 will probably see the fill compacted as much as it's going to. When we built we had a soil test done by a professor from Udon and we did not need to go down to the original soil level for our foundations.

As far as foundations are concerned bear in mind that the kind you need will depend on your local area. If you need piles then the compaction fill will have no influence as the land will need them anyway, you will just need a little longer ones.

If the contractor providing fill is local and has a reputation there is little chance of getting anything bad in the trucks. As it seems you are using the same contractor to clear and fill then just make sure that the land is cleared first. There is virtually no chance of any wood larger tha your arm being buried as it's too valuable as charcoal or fire wood.


A point about keeping a pond on the land is that you have a large area so I guess you will be using part of the land for fruit, vegetables or garden. If so then a supply of water will be important as you have periods of 5 to 6 months with no rain. If you do decide on this option and if you want a smaller pond then get them to dig it down to 6 or 9 meters deep. The standard is 3 metres in which you will have 1.5 metres of water. The big advantage to a deeper pool is that the only way you fish can be poached is with a rod and line, they can't net them as they can't stand in the water.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1941
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:30 am

Klondyke wrote:Instead of piles - as usually made in Thailand (did you ever see the pylon style - as everywhere in Thailand - in your home country?) you can have a sturdy concrete ring in a trench (ca. 40x40cm) under the outside walls. Then to build the walls onto the ring without the usual pylons (Thai Sau). The ring has surely a larger foundation surface than the number of the pylons however deep they are. Finished within a week unlike the pylons will take some 2 - 3 weeks, not speaking about saving on the material and workmanship.


It very much depends on where you are, and the soil conditions, if piles are used/needed, if they are needed and instead you use a ring beam I would be very interested to to observe the results. Personally I would not bet on the house not developing problems.

If however the soil allows for pad foundations then a ringbeam with your construction method is a reasonable alternative
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1941
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby pipoz » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:55 am

Wayne88 wrote:Hi guys, new joiner here.

i've spent some time reading through all the land filling posts on here but i'm still unsure of what to do with my land.

Me and the Mrs have a 2 rai plot of land halfway between Udon Thani and Nong Khai. We have decided that we now want to get the ball rolling with preparing the land for building on. I don't expect to begin building for another 5 years or so but i want to get the land levelled and cleared now so its a least one part of the process done.

Some people on here say land fill should be compacted layers at a time and others have said it can be allowed to settle over time. With my intention of starting to build about 5 years away is it necessary to hire a roller and compact it or will it settle enough naturally over that length of time. I have no experience in the building trade whatsoever. is the affect of settling only an issue with slab foundations or does it affect pile foundations in the same way. what would be the best level to raise the land to. currently the land has one large fish pond on it and 2 shallow ponds, some parts of the land are slightly above road level and the rest either at or just below the road level. i was thinking of levelling it all, filling the ponds in and raising it by around 100mm above road level to allow for settling. The area does not flood my wife says.

My wife says the contractor we are using has provided land fill to many homes in the area including a rather large new build farang home close to our land sitting on at least 3 rai of land. As i can't be there for the land fill taking place is there anything i should make my wifes family aware of to watch out for? such as trucks not coming fully loaded, for them to keep an eye on the contents of the trucks making sure the land fill doesn't contain large amounts of vegetation and make sure they aren't clearing large trees and burying them on the land.

any advice would be much appreciated.


Hi Wayne88,

I would start by looking at where your intend to site your house and garage on your land, then peg it out plus an extra 10 meters all the way around. Then I would consider raising that house/garage area and the driveway leading to, buy about, 300 mm above that Bitumen Road Level (BRL 0.0m), before you go and raise the whole 2 Rai if that is what you were intending to do. I can't see you being in a Flood area up you way, so you should be pretty safe at BRL + 0.3m

House & Driveway area: Looking at your photos, (front left hand corner &front left corner looking into the plot ), I assume that this is your future driveway entrance and that where the car is parked, might be the future site of your House. If this is the case that land looks pretty flat and looks to be only about 300 mm below bitumen road level BRL 0.0), at it lowest point.

Placing Fill: If correct above, you are probably looking at adding 600 mm of fill or so. You can put 600 mm of fill down in one bulk layer, spreading it with a Tractor, without the need to compact it with a Roller. If you want pay the truck driver delivering the last load of fill some extra money, to drive back and forward over it for an hour, before it tips his load. His fully loaded truck will weight 15-20 Ton

Quality of Fill: There are different qualities of fill that they sell/offer. I bough what the guy called Class 2. Just make sure your wife checks the truckloads/fill for vegetation (grass, bushes and cut down tree parts mixed in with it). You don't really want vegetation in your fill and he should give you trucks loaded like that. Just get nice clean clay in small size small clay clumps, no bigger than 200-300 mm diameter.

Most likely the fill material that your wife is buying is ideally fill material most probably from a dam that someone close by has excavated, so it will be the clean clay type, free of vegetation, assuming that they scrape that layer off before they started to load the trucks.

Compaction & Settlement: Over the next 3 years (certianly over 5 years) the fill will self compact somewhat more, as it rains then dries out then rains etc. and a 600mm thick layer will eventually settle down/reduce in level/height another 70-
100mm or so. Mine did. This will still leave you 200mm plus above BRL. I did this with my build on the south side of Udon Thani and had no issues at all and I am probably the same distance out from the Udon Thani City Center as you.

I can tell you, when it came to building my House (which has Pad Footings), some 3 years after I placed the fill, they needed a Pick to dig the footing holes through that 500 mm of fill. In some of the holes they also needed to Soak them to dig through to the virgin soil underneath. After 3 years of sitting there, just under its own weight is was as extremely hard/solid all the way through the fill.

Future House Foundations: Looking at your photo with the cut in the side of the large fish pond, this doesn't look like Ex Rice Farm land and it appears that your land is Virgin soil, the standard Udon Thani Clay type, which is a a relatively non reactive type. If so you don't need to consider Piling.

When you come building your house, you will just dig down through that top layer of 600m of fill, then go down another meter and sit you Pad Footing at say RL - 1.60 from Top of Fill Level. It won't move or settle if Founded in this original Virgin soil material at that level

Fill Profile: I am on 3 Rai. I chose not to fill all 3 Rai up to the same one level.

I deliberately left about 1.0 Rai (0.5 Rai on two sides) down at a lower level, between 300-500 mm, below the Top of Fill level under my house & driveway. Then created a natural flow path, away from the House towards these two lower land areas. This way if you do get a very heavy rain, which we do in Udon some times, then most of the initial rain water run off around the house, will quickly find its way to these two lower land areas.

OK the two lower areas will pond for a few days and then the water will soak in or evaporate, but well away from the house & driveway, so as not to have any possible impact. I use these two lower areas for my fruit tree planting, and they are always moist. Good for Mango trees

Alternatively just fall the land toward your existing ponds, if they are a fair way away from your House site

Hope this helps

pipoz
User avatar
pipoz
 
Posts: 1995
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:41 pm
Location: Udon Thani Sometimes

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Wayne88 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:57 am

Klondyke wrote:It is a nice plot large enough for a house and something around. Why not to rise the terrain only in the area where the house should be built? Then you can enjoy the natural shallow ponds implemented in the garden area. And the large pond can be later made use of for a swimming pool.

5 years is surely sufficient time enough for a natural settlement, whilst during/after the filling the additional earth will be compacted by leveling tractor anyway. And within 5 years you can get some more ideas from an architect or two how to make a decent living area, not just a plaza (as Thai people usually prefer)...


hi klondyke thanks for the reply

it sounds like a good idea to raise the land in the area the house will be built. however at the moment we haven't decided on what design to build and haven't got the money to start it yet either. so we are going for a 300mm raise above the road level across the whole plot with the exception of the large pond. this from what ive read should allow for it to settle down to more or less road level hopefully over time. then when we are ready to build i'll raise up the area the house will go on.

i like the idea of leaving the pond as its already more than likely at a sufficient depth for a future swimming pool and if anything it can be made smaller. we can then design the home in the vicinity of the pond area in the future. and the mother in law is chuffed as she can keep it stocked with fish for now!

mikenot wrote:5 years is plenty of time to settle naturally. It will cost you a fair bit to fill all 2 rai, I would suggest just raising the house area and leave the ponds for drainage. Speaking of which I would also suggest that you want the house a finished height of at least 20 cms above the road and rest of land to allow a slope for drainage.
Re piles....if the piles do go down to solid base then setling should not be an issue for the house itself but paths driveways etc could subside and crack if the soil had not settled.


cheers for the advice mikenot all duely noted. i'm hoping the price isn't too ridiculous, our plot is more or less at road level anyway throughout. some areas are higher and the existing earth should be able to be used elsewhere. if its gets too expensive i'll stop at at lower fill level and come back to it later on in the year. i don't really want the other ponds on the land in the future that's why i'm having them filled. i'll have some others dug and incorporated into the landscaping of the garden in the future. are you talking about drainage for now or once a house is on there?

Klondyke wrote:Instead of piles - as usually made in Thailand (did you ever see the pylon style - as everywhere in Thailand - in your home country?) you can have a sturdy concrete ring in a trench (ca. 40x40cm) under the outside walls. Then to build the walls onto the ring without the usual pylons (Thai Sau). The ring has surely a larger foundation surface than the number of the pylons however deep they are. Finished within a week unlike the pylons will take some 2 - 3 weeks, not speaking about saving on the material and workmanship.

The walls can be built by double block with a gap in-between, thus self-standing, good insulating, with some vertical reinforcement in the corners and long walls, completely finished within 2 months.

Biggest your problem: to persuade the builder to make it without the "saus"... :D


you've lost me a bit here. you mean a sort of reinforced concrete disc beneath the house supportng its weight and distributing that weight over a larger surface area than using piles? i'm not worrying about foundations too much at the moment. that stage of our plans is a long way off unfortunately :(

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Wayne88 wrote:Hi guys, new joiner here.

i've spent some time reading through all the land filling posts on here but i'm still unsure of what to do with my land.

Me and the Mrs have a 2 rai plot of land halfway between Udon Thani and Nong Khai. We have decided that we now want to get the ball rolling with preparing the land for building on. I don't expect to begin building for another 5 years or so but i want to get the land levelled and cleared now so its a least one part of the process done.

Some people on here say land fill should be compacted layers at a time and others have said it can be allowed to settle over time. With my intention of starting to build about 5 years away is it necessary to hire a roller and compact it or will it settle enough naturally over that length of time. I have no experience in the building trade whatsoever. is the affect of settling only an issue with slab foundations or does it affect pile foundations in the same way. what would be the best level to raise the land to. currently the land has one large fish pond on it and 2 shallow ponds, some parts of the land are slightly above road level and the rest either at or just below the road level. i was thinking of levelling it all, filling the ponds in and raising it by around 100mm above road level to allow for settling. The area does not flood my wife says.

My wife says the contractor we are using has provided land fill to many homes in the area including a rather large new build farang home close to our land sitting on at least 3 rai of land. As i can't be there for the land fill taking place is there anything i should make my wifes family aware of to watch out for? such as trucks not coming fully loaded, for them to keep an eye on the contents of the trucks making sure the land fill doesn't contain large amounts of vegetation and make sure they aren't clearing large trees and burying them on the land.

any advice would be much appreciated.



Hi we are about 75km south of you.

You may well have missed http://bit.ly/WaterhouseTimeLine

We used our own land to provide the fill for our house and at the beginning had the same area that you do, this reduced the cost per truck by a reasonable amount. Pools are dug for nothing the profit is in the fill.

You will need to use a tractor to level the fill and that will do some compacting, not much point in doing anything else. You should expect it to reduce by 30% over time. We did ours in two stages as we only started with a 3 meter deep pool, later SWMBO wanted it deeper so the extra earth went onto our house area.

We built 9 years after filling but 5 will probably see the fill compacted as much as it's going to. When we built we had a soil test done by a professor from Udon and we did not need to go down to the original soil level for our foundations.

As far as foundations are concerned bear in mind that the kind you need will depend on your local area. If you need piles then the compaction fill will have no influence as the land will need them anyway, you will just need a little longer ones.

If the contractor providing fill is local and has a reputation there is little chance of getting anything bad in the trucks. As it seems you are using the same contractor to clear and fill then just make sure that the land is cleared first. There is virtually no chance of any wood larger tha your arm being buried as it's too valuable as charcoal or fire wood.


A point about keeping a pond on the land is that you have a large area so I guess you will be using part of the land for fruit, vegetables or garden. If so then a supply of water will be important as you have periods of 5 to 6 months with no rain. If you do decide on this option and if you want a smaller pond then get them to dig it down to 6 or 9 meters deep. The standard is 3 metres in which you will have 1.5 metres of water. The big advantage to a deeper pool is that the only way you fish can be poached is with a rod and line, they can't net them as they can't stand in the water.


hi sometimewoodworker

cheers for the reply. no i hadn't seen your waterhouse post, i'm literally brand new on here. however i've just read through it and seen your flickr photos and it looks great. may be something i'll incorporate into our future plans. i could expand the pond that i'm not filling up and create a larger pond in the back left corner of our plot with a sala on it.

as i've mentioned above replying to the other guys i don't have a house plan yet or know where it will be positioned exactly so i don't want to dig any more holes on the land. as you did for your build was definitey a wise and money saving way to do it using your on land to provide the fill. we aren't lucky enough to be over in Thailand whilst this is happening though which doesn't help. we were just there in august last year and were told it was best to wait until this time of year for clearing and filling it.
we kind of want it just cleared and level so we can go and see it as a clean canvas so to speak. its quite hard to visualise where everything will go on the plot now with it being overgrown and trees in the way. i have a good selection of the architect books sold in the bookstores in thailand and we have picked a few in those that we like. so we'll be able to go over once its all filled and levelled and peg out a few different house designs and try and come to an agreement. then if my wife like the idea of a larger pond we can get that dug out and the land used to raise the area for the future house to be built on.

how did you find this 'proffesor' in Udon to do the soil tests? That is something i will definitely be doing when the time comes. my wife and in laws will probably question why i am thinking too much into it but better safe than sorry.

the contractor we are using as far as what my wife has told me is well known and does land fill all over the area. he's busy doing somewhere at the moment and isn't starting on ours for another week or so. I've instructed my mother in law to take plenty of photos and check the loads for what they contain. to also take a tally of the trucks so they don't overcharge us.

and yes my wife has many plans for the garden vegetable patch and many fruit trees. so the large pond or an additional smaller one would be handy to plan in later on. as for poachers i plan on having high walls, a guard dog and some painful surprises mounted along the top of the walls for anyone trying to get over them :lol:
Wayne88
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Wayne88 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:22 am

pipoz wrote:
Wayne88 wrote:Hi guys, new joiner here.

i've spent some time reading through all the land filling posts on here but i'm still unsure of what to do with my land.

Me and the Mrs have a 2 rai plot of land halfway between Udon Thani and Nong Khai. We have decided that we now want to get the ball rolling with preparing the land for building on. I don't expect to begin building for another 5 years or so but i want to get the land levelled and cleared now so its a least one part of the process done.

Some people on here say land fill should be compacted layers at a time and others have said it can be allowed to settle over time. With my intention of starting to build about 5 years away is it necessary to hire a roller and compact it or will it settle enough naturally over that length of time. I have no experience in the building trade whatsoever. is the affect of settling only an issue with slab foundations or does it affect pile foundations in the same way. what would be the best level to raise the land to. currently the land has one large fish pond on it and 2 shallow ponds, some parts of the land are slightly above road level and the rest either at or just below the road level. i was thinking of levelling it all, filling the ponds in and raising it by around 100mm above road level to allow for settling. The area does not flood my wife says.

My wife says the contractor we are using has provided land fill to many homes in the area including a rather large new build farang home close to our land sitting on at least 3 rai of land. As i can't be there for the land fill taking place is there anything i should make my wifes family aware of to watch out for? such as trucks not coming fully loaded, for them to keep an eye on the contents of the trucks making sure the land fill doesn't contain large amounts of vegetation and make sure they aren't clearing large trees and burying them on the land.

any advice would be much appreciated.


Hi Wayne88,

I would start by looking at where your intend to site your house and garage on your land, then peg it out plus an extra 10 meters all the way around. Then I would consider raising that house/garage area and the driveway leading to, buy about, 300 mm above that Bitumen Road Level (BRL 0.0m), before you go and raise the whole 2 Rai if that is what you were intending to do. I can't see you being in a Flood area up you way, so you should be pretty safe at BRL + 0.3m

House & Driveway area: Looking at your photos, (front left hand corner &front left corner looking into the plot ), I assume that this is your future driveway entrance and that where the car is parked, might be the future site of your House. If this is the case that land looks pretty flat and looks to be only about 300 mm below bitumen road level BRL 0.0), at it lowest point.

Placing Fill: If correct above, you are probably looking at adding 600 mm of fill or so. You can put 600 mm of fill down in one bulk layer, spreading it with a Tractor, without the need to compact it with a Roller. If you want pay the truck driver delivering the last load of fill some extra money, to drive back and forward over it for an hour, before it tips his load. His fully loaded truck will weight 15-20 Ton

Quality of Fill: There are different qualities of fill that they sell/offer. I bough what the guy called Class 2. Just make sure your wife checks the truckloads/fill for vegetation (grass, bushes and cut down tree parts mixed in with it). You don't really want vegetation in your fill and he should give you trucks loaded like that. Just get nice clean clay in small size small clay clumps, no bigger than 200-300 mm diameter.

Most likely the fill material that your wife is buying is ideally fill material most probably from a dam that someone close by has excavated, so it will be the clean clay type, free of vegetation, assuming that they scrape that layer off before they started to load the trucks.

Compaction & Settlement: Over the next 3 years (certianly over 5 years) the fill will self compact somewhat more, as it rains then dries out then rains etc. and a 600mm thick layer will eventually settle down/reduce in level/height another 70-
100mm or so. Mine did. This will still leave you 200mm plus above BRL. I did this with my build on the south side of Udon Thani and had no issues at all and I am probably the same distance out from the Udon Thani City Center as you.

I can tell you, when it came to building my House (which has Pad Footings), some 3 years after I placed the fill, they needed a Pick to dig the footing holes through that 500 mm of fill. In some of the holes they also needed to Soak them to dig through to the virgin soil underneath. After 3 years of sitting there, just under its own weight is was as extremely hard/solid all the way through the fill.

Future House Foundations: Looking at your photo with the cut in the side of the large fish pond, this doesn't look like Ex Rice Farm land and it appears that your land is Virgin soil, the standard Udon Thani Clay type, which is a a relatively non reactive type. If so you don't need to consider Piling.

When you come building your house, you will just dig down through that top layer of 600m of fill, then go down another meter and sit you Pad Footing at say RL - 1.60 from Top of Fill Level. It won't move or settle if Founded in this original Virgin soil material at that level

Fill Profile: I am on 3 Rai. I chose not to fill all 3 Rai up to the same one level.

I deliberately left about 1.0 Rai (0.5 Rai on two sides) down at a lower level, between 300-500 mm, below the Top of Fill level under my house & driveway. Then created a natural flow path, away from the House towards these two lower land areas. This way if you do get a very heavy rain, which we do in Udon some times, then most of the initial rain water run off around the house, will quickly find its way to these two lower land areas.

OK the two lower areas will pond for a few days and then the water will soak in or evaporate, but well away from the house & driveway, so as not to have any possible impact. I use these two lower areas for my fruit tree planting, and they are always moist. Good for Mango trees

Alternatively just fall the land toward your existing ponds, if they are a fair way away from your House site

Hope this helps

pipoz


hi pipoz

thanks for the long informative reply.

at the moment i've got the contractor instructed to level it all off too about 200-300mm above the road. i was hoping this would then settle to slightly above road level. then later this year once we have visited and pegged out a house plan i shall have that area raised slightly more to allow for drainage. then when it comes to building it should all slope away from the property. right? does this sound sensible?

i don't think we are in a flood prone zone. the nearest river is a long way away and my wife has said she has never known it to flood there.

i shall bear in mind your advice on having the last truck fully loaded drive around the site to compact it down.

as for fill quality i've told my mother in law that she needs to keep an eye on what they are bringing in and photograph it for me.

my wife says that the plot of land we bought has never been used as a rice paddy. i'll upload some google earth screenshots shortly with our land highlighted. you can clearly see where the rice paddies end with an embankment and our land begins. it can also be seen that the surrounding woodland near our land has been cut back off our land a long time ago. my wife confirms that our land used to be woodland many years ago but was cleared at some stage for someone to live on and grazing cattle.

when it comes to the build eventually i will raise the house footprint up enough for drainage away from it like you've mentioned or angle it towards a pond at a decent distance form the house.

thanks
Wayne88
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Wayne88 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:39 am

thanks everyone for the replies.

if anyone has anymore advice or tips then i'm all ears. i sure need it!

i've attached some google earth shots of our plot. with our plot measured out to near enough the correct size using our chanote paperwork dimensions. think i'm about 29 square metres short so not too bad! the rectangle i've drawn on is the current location more or less of the large pond. it didnt exist last time the satellite photographed the area. the contractor has now been told to clear and level all the land on the plot and leave the pond as it is.

Screenshot_20180103-164604_resized.png
satellite shot of our plot. the rectangle i've drawn on is where the large pond is roughly situated.


Screenshot_20180103-164927_resized.png


Screenshot_20180103-165135_resized.png
Wayne88
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby canopy » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:23 am

The answer is incredibly easy: the foundation must reach down and be supported by undisturbed earth. Sitting a house on fill dirt and the predictable problems that arise is one of the most frequent building mistakes in Thailand.
canopy
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:15 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:54 am

Wayne88 wrote:
hi sometimewoodworker

cheers for the reply. no i hadn't seen your waterhouse post, i'm literally brand new on here. however i've just read through it and seen your flickr photos and it looks great. may be something i'll incorporate into our future plans. i could expand the pond that i'm not filling up and create a larger pond in the back left corner of our plot with a sala on it.


I pointed you at that post for the land fill, not so much for the sala, though it has been the most successful thing up to now

as i've mentioned above replying to the other guys i don't have a house plan yet or know where it will be positioned exactly so i don't want to dig any more holes on the land. as you did for your build was definitey a wise and money saving way to do it using your on land to provide the fill. we aren't lucky enough to be over in Thailand whilst this is happening though which doesn't help. we were just there in august last year and were told it was best to wait until this time of year for clearing and filling it.


It certainly is the best time of year for clearing filling. I'm sure that if you ask your contractor, he will be with taking some of the filll from your own pool, also now that it has been drained and the land will be cleared is the perfect time to dig it deeper, doing it later will be quite disruptive.

If you estimate on 100 Baht per cubic metre for your fill earth that will give you an idea of how much you're going to have to pay. One Rai is 1600 m², 1 x 6 wheel truck has about 3 m³, 1 x 10 wheel truck has about 5 m³. These are guesstimates but a reasonable guide, so to fill 2 Rai 30cm will be around 300,000 Baht and need 900+ 6 wheeled trucks.

If you look at my Waterhouse build that pool is about 22 metres x 26 and the cost was 60,000 Baht to dig it and put the fill down for the house.

SWMBO finds having different levels in the garden makes it much nicer and moe visually interesting.

we kind of want it just cleared and level so we can go and see it as a clean canvas so to speak. its quite hard to visualise where everything will go on the plot now with it being overgrown and trees in the way. i have a good selection of the architect books sold in the bookstores in thailand and we have picked a few in those that we like. so we'll be able to go over once its all filled and levelled and peg out a few different house designs and try and come to an agreement. then if my wife like the idea of a larger pond we can get that dug out and the land used to raise the area for the future house to be built on.

how did you find this 'proffesor' in Udon to do the soil tests? That is something i will definitely be doing when the time comes. my wife and in laws will probably question why i am thinking too much into it but better safe than sorry.


and yes my wife has many plans for the garden vegetable patch and many fruit trees. so the large pond or an additional smaller one would be handy to plan in later on. as for poachers i plan on having high walls, a guard dog and some painful surprises mounted along the top of the walls for anyone trying to get over them :lol:

The link http://bit.ly/Building-and-land-thailand which points to my server here in Japan will be available only until the 3 week in January as we are moving back to Thailand. This is most of the build pictures and movies.

http://meekings.selfip.biz/nui/Groups-o ... Sa-At.html

This has some pictures of land clearing that could be helpful and is on a very fast connection for the next 3 weeks.

The professor was contacted through our builders.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1941
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Klondyke » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:24 pm

If you estimate on 100 Bart per cubic metre for your fill earth that will give you an idea of how much you're going to have to pay. One Rai is 1600 m², 1 x 6 wheel truck has about 3 m³, 1 x 10 wheel truck has about 5 m³. These are guesstimates but a reasonable guide, so to fill 2 Rai 30cm will be around 300,000 Baht and need 900+ 6 wheeled trucks.


There are surely different prices in different areas. I know it with 1 x 6 wheel truck (hok-lohr), each for some 600 - 800 Baht, (including the leveling), yes each with some 3 m3 (but with a belief), the 10-wheel trucks (sip-lohr) usually are not used since difficult in the soft terrain.
Klondyke
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Klondyke wrote:
If you estimate on 100 Baht per cubic metre for your fill earth that will give you an idea of how much you're going to have to pay. One Rai is 1600 m², 1 x 6 wheel truck has about 3 m³, 1 x 10 wheel truck has about 5 m³. These are guesstimates but a reasonable guide, so to fill 2 Rai 30cm will be around 300,000 Baht and need 900+ 6 wheeled trucks.


There are surely different prices in different areas. I know it with 1 x 6 wheel truck (hok-lohr), each for some 600 - 800 Baht, (including the leveling), yes each with some 3 m3 (but with a belief), the 10-wheel trucks (sip-lohr) usually are not used since difficult in the soft terrain.

You are only too right about the difference in costs, if the distance is very short (5 to 10 minutes) we have paid 250 per hok-lohr and 400 per sip-lor plus extra for the tractor to level the fill so about half your prices. Also the 3 m³ and 5 m³ are if you are lucky. We have also been offered double the price but decided as we had no urgent need.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1941
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Land fill. to compact or not to compact?

Postby Wayne88 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:07 pm

so i have quickly drawn up this basic plan.

Scale 3mm to 1 metre.

my wife is happy with extending the pool later she doesn't want to do it now and to be honest i want to be there when it's done to be sure the soil is dropped in the right area for the future house. extending the size of the current pond in light blue to a larger one in dark blue up to the corner of our plot. maybe later this year if we are able to get over there. then use that soil to raise the house area.

using the house design book i've pretty much decided that the biggest house size will end up settling on will have a maximum footprint of 35m left to right and 21m from front to back. this includes the extra area required around the property. i've made a small scale template for this. next i need to do some research on the best orientation to build the thing! then get out there and peg the size out where we want it sat on the land and mark this on a scaled drawing of the land.

what is the best orientation for a property to face in thailand?

the house design books does anyone know how much some of the full drawing sets cost that could be given to an architect and a builder?

cheers

20180105_133019.jpg
quick scale drawing (with the exception of the pond that was a rough guesstimate of size and exact position)


20180105_135746_resized.jpg
i've got a collection of these from different publishers
Wayne88
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Next

Return to land

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests