Contracts... n all that.

Legal issues related to buying land, houses, condos in the LOS. Anything about contracts. Finance related, such as getting a mortgage, buying property from the bank, etc.

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Contracts... n all that.

Postby Thai Dhupp » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:26 am

Well, as some of you might have picked up from my previous thread, we are now almost sure which of our builder options will be doing the build, so now its...

.... contract time!!

Yeah.. but what should be going it to it? that's the question. I mean... whats absolutely essential? whats desirable? what could be a bonus inclusion? what is not needed? what about penalties? stage payments? etc etc etc .....

I already have a sample contract from a forum member (thanks!), but I'm looking to see what other members have experienced so that can make one helluva contract!

As always , thanks in advance to anyone replying to this with some great contract inclusion advice. Really appreciated.
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Re: Contracts... n all that.

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:54 am

Thai Dhupp wrote:Yeah.. but what should be going it to it? that's the question. I mean... whats absolutely essential? whats desirable? what could be a bonus inclusion? what is not needed? what about penalties? stage payments? etc etc etc .....

I stupidly went with a six month contract, that included stage payments, as each stage was finished so I gave the builder his money, if he finished early I paid early. And then the floods came and wiped out the 6 months and the builder wanted part payment even though the work had not been done and at the end of the build after the floods had receded he had moved to another job and had lost interest, but still wanted the final payment of 50,000 baht which we kept as he hadn't completed the finishing stages (septic tanks in, water tanks and concrete slab and inside ceiling painted. He'd also stolen a lot of my equipment. He was sacked.
Then we got a letter from a solicitor claiming the 50,000 baht we had kept back, plus 7% and fees and a whole heap more. My wife was so angry she rang the solicitor and paid out on him for even writing the letter. Then she told him everything that needed finishing as far as the contract was concerned. The solicitor said it was typical of most builders that they try and squeeze the last baht out of the client even if in the wrong. We also learnt out builder had used him before and changed his name twice after not completing jobs (doing a runner). He was actually a nice bloke and said that building contracts are not worth the paper they are printed on.
Builders will claim the smallest of changes caused all the delays and caused extra work, but as we had stuck to the plans (pretty much) the builder would not pursue the claim any further.
Unless it is a government contract (and they supply the contract), then your contract or the builder's contract is really just a plan of payment and not worth the paper they are written on.
Forget about penalties, that doesn't work, they'll just do a runner and then you have to find a new builder.
Write something simple about when the stage is complete you'll pay XXXXXX amount and you'll hold back final payment until all jobs are completed.
After going through three builders that's the best advise I can give you.
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Re: Contracts... n all that.

Postby schuimpge » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:46 am

Agree with RR on the contract..you'd never be able to enforce it if you have to put 'the hammer' down.

I guess I'm a bit lucky in that after 10 years, I still use only 1 contractor, and though he's caused me some headaches, what counts for me is: He's honest to the bone.. whenever I call him, he's there and gets it done... He's reasonable and open for discussion when we're not happy with something...

From what I've seen, read, heard and learned from my time here, it is simply important that if you're not sure about the contractor, you have to be on-site during every hour of construction! The only way to avoid mistakes is to immediately be on top of it and have a problem sorted out. Once a mistake has been made and the next step of construction started, it becomes a royal pain to get the contractor to change or correct it as it is extra cost to him.
Another important part: See reference projects!

There's exceptions, like Googla's build, but that's what they are, exceptions.

Another problem is how much you are trying to squeeze out of your budget. If you expect to pay peanuts, expect to get monkeys doing your build!
Be realistic and fair. 1000 Baht p/day is not going to get you a crew of 5 craftsmen and a few helping hands and thinking you got that bloody cheap and good deal will cost you dearly in other areas.

Important also, if your project is going to be 'special', (meaning: not the typical 'Thai way' of construction), be sure that your contractor is open for that and/or has experience/capabilities to handle projects that are outside their comfort zone.

Staged payments and completed job final payment is essential as RR noted already. Combine that with the above points and you'll have a good chance of completing your project to your likings.

A suggestion, I've seen several builds here on CTH where a contractor was assigned to build a small part of the project first before starting with the main project. Doing this, you get a good first look at his skills and other things like timeliness, crew, way of working, etc.

Good luck,

Luc
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Re: Contracts... n all that.

Postby Thai Dhupp » Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Hi RR...sorry for the late reply, I'm hard at work on my lil' day job project - the Museum of the Future in Dubai! (check it out)

Thanks for the input - stage the payments - for sure , and definitely retain a sum until the snagging has been completed.

I like it and will be included. hes actually sent his idea of a contract to my wife, who had a good laugh then sent it to me for ...err... 'comment'.

Comment has indeed been added in the form of a newly drafted contract that actually ties him down to 'doing stuff' rather than vague suggestions of completion in 12 months, looking something like his house (modern box but well-built) and no references to anything in the plans or indeed, the plans themselves!!

Yeah yeah... really!!

So now we have added about 6 pages but I'm not rushing to send it back just yet, until I have read all the comments here (and elsewhere).

Thanks again for your comment and interest.
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Re: Contracts... n all that.

Postby Thai Dhupp » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:01 pm

Hi Shuimpge, and thanx for the input...most welcome.

The budget for this construction was 'agreed ' in my head a long time back, after the original quoter inadvertently sent me a complete BOQ to work on and i made a reasoned estimation of the build costs.

We had a number of quotes, including a couple of 'chancers' looking for the next rich Farang - but they struggled to justify the quote when questioned on a couple of the items. They fell by the wayside. The shortlisted 2 who we both interviewed and checked out, were selected before they had even quoted fully so the selection was not just about the price. There was not a lot between them when the quotes did come through and, more importantly, without any prompting from us, both quotes were close to my estimation based on that BOQ.

In any case. we are building to live long term so there's no point in cutting corners - the cut corner will be there for you to walk past every day of the week!
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