Bluescope Zacs

methods, materials, sources & prices, construction for separate Topics on:
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:11 pm

Cheeryble wrote:
Thanks for that.....

FYI I think the most common foil coated foam glued underneath is only 3mm.


Do you happen to know if maybe the roof steel prices you quote are for a hip roof which needs quite a lot more steel and lot more work?


Steel price should be the same for any type of roof. My roof is a lot of small hip roofs. The labor charge will vary by the amount of work that needs to be done. Steel is in 6 meter lengths and most of my roof is much less than that. So there will be a lot of cutting and welding. And a lot of flashings to buy (I think about 90 per meter).

Here the PE is 5mm.

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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:46 pm

Saffles wrote:. Can put main beams at 1 meter intervals (maybe best closer) and cross beams at 40-50 cm.


If you are talking about a CPAC roof then rafters at 1 meter and the purlins spacing will be defined by the tile size.
But if you are talking about a Colourbond roof then the spacing is much closer than needed

Our roof has rafters at 1 meter and purlins at 1.2 meters.

So a CPAC roof will probably need 3 to 4 times as much steel for purlins plus stronger (more expensive) rafters.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:39 pm

Something that might be useful to OP and others and myself......

I took a look thru the online technical manual for Colorbond.

Now there's no doubt the thin layer of foil/foam glued under reduces rain noise considerably.
The manual made the point that if one's inserting insulation under the roof it will be more effective against noise if it is pressing up against the roof sheets as opposed to e.g. Sitting on a ceiling.

Makes sense.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:24 pm

Cheeryble wrote:Something that might be useful to OP and others and myself......

I took a look thru the online technical manual for Colorbond.

Now there's no doubt the thin layer of foil/foam glued under reduces rain noise considerably.
The manual made the point that if one's inserting insulation under the roof it will be more effective against noise if it is pressing up against the roof sheets as opposed to e.g. Sitting on a ceiling.

Makes sense.


I never said to put the PE over the ceiling... I said add the rock wool in addition to the PE and lay it on the ceiling. The combined r value and noise insulation would be maxed.

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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:31 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Saffles wrote:. Can put main beams at 1 meter intervals (maybe best closer) and cross beams at 40-50 cm.


If you are talking about a CPAC roof then rafters at 1 meter and the purlins spacing will be defined by the tile size.
But if you are talking about a Colourbond roof then the spacing is much closer than needed

Our roof has rafters at 1 meter and purlins at 1.2 meters.

So a CPAC roof will probably need 3 to 4 times as much steel for purlins plus stronger (more expensive) rafters.


Thanks Jerome. I was going by what they said at the roof shop. They were suggesting the one meter rafters but I was thinking that if screwed the panels together and into a rafter beam it might be more stable, that would be at about 70 cm. I have a lot of roof that will be less than two meter sections so maybe the shorter purlins. Just wanted to make sure it is tight.

Will have to investigate !!

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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:53 pm

Saffles wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Saffles wrote:. Can put main beams at 1 meter intervals (maybe best closer) and cross beams at 40-50 cm.


If you are talking about a CPAC roof then rafters at 1 meter and the purlins spacing will be defined by the tile size.
But if you are talking about a Colourbond roof then the spacing is much closer than needed

Our roof has rafters at 1 meter and purlins at 1.2 meters.

So a CPAC roof will probably need 3 to 4 times as much steel for purlins plus stronger (more expensive) rafters.


Thanks Jerome. I was going by what they said at the roof shop. They were suggesting the one meter rafters but I was thinking that if screwed the panels together and into a rafter beam it might be more stable, that would be at about 70 cm. I have a lot of roof that will be less than two meter sections so maybe the shorter purlins. Just wanted to make sure it is tight.

Will have to investigate !!

Mark

You don't attach the roof to the rafters, only to the purlins.

The rafters support the purlins, the roof is attached to the purlins.

The rafters run from ridge to gutter, you don't want short rafters.

You don't screw the Colourbond together, only down to the purlins.

If the distance from ridge to gutter is between 2.4 meters and 1.2 meters then you need 3 purlins (that is for Colourbond) ridge, centre and gutter.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:04 am

Thanks Jerome...
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:48 am

Sorry was wrong about the 3mm it is indeed 5mm
I was in the supplier in CM today
He later sent prices for various grades of sheet and insulation.
The Polyurethane is formed to fit the roof sheets and really looks like it would do the biz for heat and noise.
I will make the prices available tomorrow for sheet and insulation , and he is I hope going to send a sqm price for the metal framing.

In fact here it is so far:
---------------
Hi,

I'd like to inform you about the approximated price of sheet and insulations as below (price in Baht)

1. 0.50 mm Colorbond grade metal sheet = 350 / m2
2. 0.40 mm Regular grade = 180 / m2
3. 0.35 mm Regular grade = 130 /m2
4. P.E. inslation with 5 mm = 65 /m2
5. P.U. Insulation with 25 mm(standard thickness size) = 220 /m2

For some structure materials and working fee may I send you later
---------------------
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:37 am

Cheeryble wrote:The Polyurethane is formed to fit the roof sheets and really looks like it would do the biz for heat and noise.
---------------------


It will probably work for heat, but if you want to hear yourself think when you get typical heavy rain it won't be doing enough for sound.

I have sprayed 25mm PU in my workshop and it is still impossible to hold a normal conversation (and difficult even shouting) with heavy rain.
In the living part of the house we have 25mm PU and a plasterboard ceiling with insulation on top and you can almost hear a whisper in the same rain storm.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:46 am

I would agree, the PE foam would do very little for sound other than take the "ting" sound away... Based on accustical research, not first hand experience. My SIL has a thin metal roof for a carport, no insulation...Is soothing peaceful noise in rain... Nightmare in giant storm.

The prices seem to be quite a bit more than around here. What is name of shop? There is one company, BK Steel that has shops all over the north, and I think T-One does also.

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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:25 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:The Polyurethane is formed to fit the roof sheets and really looks like it would do the biz for heat and noise.
---------------------


It will probably work for heat, but if you want to hear yourself think when you get typical heavy rain it won't be doing enough for sound.

I have sprayed 25mm PU in my workshop and it is still impossible to hold a normal conversation (and difficult even shouting) with heavy rain.
In the living part of the house we have 25mm PU and a plasterboard ceiling with insulation on top and you can almost hear a whisper in the same rain storm.


I can't hear a whisper even when there's no rain!!

Seriously though I'm v surprised your PU foam spray didn't do the trick, it must be well bonded. Did it come out a good consistency.......quite firm with very small bubbles indeed?

As for the living part I will be having plasterboard fixed directly to the shallow angle rafters or to a lightweight frame fixed directly to the rafters......wonder of that would be enough with just the PU glued by the supplier plus just the bards no rock wool (presume you;'re just laying rock wool on your ceiling?)

Out of interest how much would adequate thickness rock wool cost?
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:42 am

Saffles wrote:The prices seem to be quite a bit more than around here. What is name of shop? There is one company, BK Steel that has shops all over the north, and I think T-One does also.

Mark


Stupidly Saffles i don't know the name of the company though the Line message came from VISAVAS and that's not the boss's name so could be that.
ON Superhwy in CM. Come past Big C coming into town it's on the left I think closer in than MAhidol Rd.
Very helpful educated type boss pretty good English, and lots of action a fair sized place, all the machinery with at least ten people beavering away and more in the office.
He said he could provide subcontractors they've found to be reliable.

But price is price interested that you think it's dear.....any idea HOW dear?
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:12 pm

The Colourbond pricing will depend on the profile
We used V-700 which is a cliplock system (almost no screws and the ones that are used are almost invisible) I think that it was one of the more expensive as it uses more material per square meter, it was 300 Baht per square metre plus VAT.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:25 pm

Cheeryble wrote:I can't hear a whisper even when there's no rain!!

Seriously though I'm v surprised your PU foam spray didn't do the trick, it must be well bonded. Did it come out a good consistency.......quite firm with very small bubbles indeed?

As for the living part I will be having plasterboard fixed directly to the shallow angle rafters or to a lightweight frame fixed directly to the rafters......wonder of that would be enough with just the PU glued by the supplier plus just the bards no rock wool (presume you;'re just laying rock wool on your ceiling?)

Out of interest how much would adequate thickness rock wool cost?


I'm not quite sure why you need poets involved in your roof :lol:

The whisper quiet is because of the double AAC block walls, laminated glass IGU's in all windows and doors, MrKen fans, and inverter AC units that have the outside units on the workshop walls

The insulation (no idea what, could be glass fibre, could be rock wool, no idea of thickness either) cost about 12,000 to cover about 100 square metres of living space.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:02 pm

Cheeryble wrote:
Out of interest how much would adequate thickness rock wool cost?


The factory in BKK quoted me about 200 per meter... It comes in 1.2 x 1 meter... But that was when I asked them for wall batts... 5mm. They also have for roofs and different applications. Most notably they are showing for under metal roofs (Thermalrock). I will be contacting them again soon.

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