Building in chiang mai

Any story related to building in the LOS, whether everything turned out hunky dory or not!

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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby gliffaes » Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:46 am

Id stick the two toilets in the adjoining upper bedrooms back to back keeping plumbing to a minimum
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:41 am

Getting close to a start now.
The plans I previously posted have been somewhat modified, as in slightly longer footprint ( that will keep somebody happy , but for a different reason, lol, I have found notes I sent to the engineer.) and slightly different bedroom 3&4 layout. The idea being to keep water drainage towards the two middle sides. Its been planed with two septics, one on each side.

I want to use a combination of foam and fiber additives to the concrete but I need to ensure a reasonable amount of thermal mass is left. The idea is that it helps to maintain a more even temperature spread between day and night. Too little thermal mass and it can be uncomfortable and needing constant input, or too much mass and it retains too much heat. So I am inclined to think that the groundfloor slab can stay conventional, sitting on the ground. 10-12" below the surface , the ground temp is probably close to 20c. This acts as a heat sink.

For the first floor, I will go with concrete planks as form work and 3kg/m3 fiber with 10% foam. no REO. (200mm thick , from memory)

For the top ceiling somewhat similar but different. Concrete planks, 50mm polystyrene liner, foam and fiber mix poured over the lot. Making sure there is a minimum of 200mm between the edges and the polystyrene - to seal it in.

I cant quite remember the slab thicknesses , but I did make the top substantial so as to carry a garden.

I have also rethouight how I will do the exterior walls.
Downstairs, I was thinking two skins of AAC block with 50mm plystyrene boards sandwiched between them. The walls fully sealed so no fear of vermin invasion. BUT. I now think its over kill. Just a cavity will give me an R rating of just over 2, using sarking(foil) will push it to just under 3. This is a good result as is.
Upstairs exterior walls will be different again. This time I am borrowing from European ideas. The internal wall will be AAC blocks and the external wall will rendered foam. The foam will be adhered to the block. I will post some pics of the work i am doing in melbourne now with this stuff.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby claynlr » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:20 am

Looking forward to your build Andy.

Question...When you build a double skin exterior wall, do you cap off the top of the 2 skins with block totally sealing up the gap between or do you seal off the top with netting to keep the bugs out? As in do you need to let the heat escape from the gap in between the walls?
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:19 pm

Good question. In my case its sealed slab to slab, just like a double glazed window.

Weep holes were introduced to the exterior walls because bricks are POROUS. The weep holes help to remove unwanted water and act as ventilation for the cavity.
To answer your question, If your exterior skin is porous you shouldn't close off any ventilation in the cavity.
An eco friendly house works because the outside skin is made water proof, thus you can cap off all ventilation to the cavity.
If you have to leave a cavity open, some kind of termite guard to all penetrations is a good idea.
Hope that answers your question.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:29 am

Ok guys, the s**t has hit the fan or the feet have hit the pavement. I am here and raring to go.

First stop, look at the plans again. I have ten pages of notes about changes, lol.

Only three major changes. All three slabs are at 0.125m thick. For upstairs, thats fine with the cement planks under.
On the ground, i am going to upsize to 0.200m. The reason is that i want a thermal mass attacked to the gound so that the ground acts as a heat sink, keeping the mass at a constant cool temperature.
The two top slabs will be a little more high tech. I plan to put 50mm of foamed concrete on top of the slab. I can leave out any depressions for the WCs. They can then be screeded later. Less detail in the slab which is a saving in fustration, lol.
The foam concrete is not too strong but very light at 500kg/m. It has excellent water resistance and a great insulator. Once floor tiles go on top, you wouldnt even know.
The rear cement overhand from the first floor will be extended by a meter. The "outside" kitchen has to be catered for. :)

I did a quick calculation on the steel requirements and its nearly 6km of steel.
Pads are mostly 1.5m x1.5m with a couple at 2m x2m. Beams are all 0.4 x0.25 with the only variations being the amount and size of steel. 12mm, 16mm and 20mm.

We have a shopping list for cement and steel, a list of "to do" and visa requirements to full fill. Enough for one week.
Oh, did i mention , the block is like a jungle :) . Six months and it has exploded.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:21 pm

Just an FYI
Here steel is expensive and concrete is cheap so increased beam depth is a significantly less expensive way of increasing strength than increased size and amount of steel rebar.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:55 pm

Anyone know where i can get rolls of vapour barrier. I know it was posted a fare while back , i just couldnt find it.
Other item i need is form work. A local job i checked out has steel reinforced plastic boards.

Just to get in the mood, the job was pretty average with the reo sitting on sand, and 1/2 a centimeter from the sides, lol.

Looks like i will get first hand experience rolling my own steel beams.

After the wasted day at immigration, the kings unfortunate death has everyone guessing whats to happen now. Took my ticket in the queue but the doors were shut solid at lunchtime. Thanks for the warning immigration. Could have stayed in bed longer or gone to the temple to pray for the king.To top it off the auspiscious day for the first concrete dollop is the 20th. Thats 4 days too late. :D
The land will get slashed on monday, today being friday, so i can do the setout at least.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:09 pm

Andyfteeze wrote:Anyone know where i can get rolls of vapour barrier. I know it was posted a fare while back , i just couldnt find it.
Other item i need is form work. A local job i checked out has steel reinforced plastic boards.

The best, and cheapest, form work is the steel ones that clip together. Someone in your area will rent it to you. It's usually a few baht a day per section.

You can see it in my building thread.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Sat Oct 15, 2016 1:10 pm

Thanks for tip on the reo, but i will stick with what i have now. The hassle isnt worth it now.
I had all these notes for the engineer, change this change that. In the end, up to you, just dont ask me to change the plans, lol. He suggested extra footings would be nice outside the kitchen and everything else was ok. He suggested that the bathrooms moving to a more central position entailed him redrawing the room beams. I think more logically, it was because he assumed i was to build the step down for these areas. They are non load bearing walls so cant be a weight issue.

I have id'd 99% of his engineering markings and measurements. The only one i am not 100% sure of is the beam design. Tying the steel rods he has rb9mm @0.1 and rb6mm @0.15 . It reads.
Rb9mm @0.1m L/4 from the middle ( in thai).
Rb6mm @0.15m normal( in thai).
I am assuming its closer spacing in the middle and further to the extreems. The number of rb9mm i assume is 4.
Not too concerned at this stage, just getting the piers in is enough for now.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby eyecatcher » Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:56 pm

Andyfteeze wrote:Thanks for tip on the reo, but i will stick with what i have now. The hassle isnt worth it now.
I had all these notes for the engineer, change this change that. In the end, up to you, just dont ask me to change the plans, lol. He suggested extra footings would be nice outside the kitchen and everything else was ok. He suggested that the bathrooms moving to a more central position entailed him redrawing the room beams. I think more logically, it was because he assumed i was to build the step down for these areas. They are non load bearing walls so cant be a weight issue.

I have id'd 99% of his engineering markings and measurements. The only one i am not 100% sure of is the beam design. Tying the steel rods he has rb9mm @0.1 and rb6mm @0.15 . It reads.
Rb9mm @0.1m L/4 from the middle ( in thai).
Rb6mm @0.15m normal( in thai).
I am assuming its closer spacing in the middle and further to the extreems. The number of rb9mm i assume is 4.
Not too concerned at this stage, just getting the piers in is enough for now.



He wants 9mm rebar links at 100mm c/c for a distance of the length (L) at least 1/4 along that length from the middle.
so a beam of 4m long. the links are required at least 500mm each side of centre or the node-column bearing

All other beams and parts of beams 6mm at 150 c/c

Its all about the deflection, the maximum bending moment is normally mid span hence it needs beefing up. other areas of stress are usually at the supports where extra bent steel/chairs are required to counteract shear.

i will not bore you about beam bending, rotation and crushing until you really get going.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:36 am

Thanks for the info. I figured i was on the right track. Just didnt quite get the last bit. Yes i understand about the stresses at mid span.

We got the guy who built our fence to come over and give us a quote on the concrete. As much as i would like to think i can do it on my own, the reality is its a big undertaking. 20 piers, 30 odd beams, a few km of steel, and thats just the floor.
The idea now is to get two more guys to look at the job. I will pick the one i am more comfortable with rather than out right price. At least this guy has everything available , form work, back hoe, concrete pump ,vibrator , helicopter and understands how i want the slab. I let him know that i know how it should be and i basically want him because he knows how to do it. See what he comes back with. In the mean time, i am back to adding up the steel content of the piers and beams.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:08 pm

I have found the vapour barrier. The place is .......the big chicken factory in hang dong. It costs 4500b for a roll
2m x .25mm x100m.
I have no idea why a chicken factory sells vapour barrier yet building supplies have no idea. Such is thailand.
Now i need "duct" tape For the joins. Any clue, anybody?
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:31 pm

Andyfteeze wrote:I have found the vapour barrier. The place is .......the big chicken factory in hang dong. It costs 4500b for a roll
2m x .25mm x100m.
I have no idea why a chicken factory sells vapour barrier yet building supplies have no idea. Such is thailand.
Now i need "duct" tape For the joins. Any clue, anybody?

For duct tape, every one of the big suppliers has it TW, GH, HP, HH, DH etc.

Not the same brand of course.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:05 pm

I got my first set of prices. Just for the slabs, l labour and material, 2,000,000bht. Well when I was presented with this little present I fell off my perch laughing, pang, pang pang.
After a few minutes , I sat down and went over the list. 6000bt for the setout. I just finished doing it, lol. He saw all the markings on the walls.I I let him know I was happy with his work but this was over the top by a big margin. After much discussion , he said he made a few mistakes and would come back with a revised schedule.
When he arrived , he had a builder friend with him. He was obviously going to handball to a mate. Neither of them really understands plans, I guess they thought lock in the client and then do it their way anyhow. Sometimes the glazed look tells you everything.
He quoted ist flr slab 150,000 which included buying the frame work material then inflated it by 20% for roof slab. If he was going to reuse the formwork, it should be cheaper. In the end , the quote was riddled with inconsistencies. I had a good laugh.
Ok, if he isn't interested in doing the job at a reasonable rate, next.

I got prices on rebar at a local 160bt RB12, 270bt RB16, 490bt RB20 all at SD40 . That equates to about 160,000bt for the whole build. yes I made lists and lots of little sketches of all the cage details and lengths required. The slabs are 36m3 down stairs , 23m3 first flr, 20m3 roof. The beams and columns are 17m3 for all three. that's 130m3 total. I estimate 200,000-250,000bt. So its about 400,000 base material plus labour. I still have to factor in form work, precast concrete planks and other essentials I have left out. Excavator cost is around 3000bt per day. About half a days work. Havent found a pump yet.

My worst case scenario for the slabs was 600,000bt material and labour, give or take 20%, that's 720,000bt. 420,000 materials and 300,000 labour. A long long way from 2,000,000. which equates to 25,000bt per day for two months labour and profit. (2,000,000 -500,000bt). or 10 guys at 2500bt per day each for two months. it just brings into sharp focus how much they think they can put one over us. I estimate 3 guys 6 weeks to roll the cages. probably from Myanmar at 250bt/day. 3 guys two days to frame up gnd florr, a week for each of the above slabs. 4 guys per day for three slab pours. Supervisor should be happy with 1500bt per day for 6 weeks total. I make that about 130,000bt even at 300bt per day. I am sure there are other costs there I haven't calculated, but it cant be too much more than 50,000bt .

The challenge is whether I can achieve my budget. I fully expect to pay a profit margin, but not that much, lol. I think 20% over run on my estimates, 850,000, is a realistic cost, but as the builder, my job is to push it down hard.
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Re: Building in chiang mai

Postby Andyfteeze » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:57 pm

The build has hit a hurdle , but thankfully before I spent money.
I just built a massive spread sheet and went all over chiang mai looking at prices for concrete and steel. My grand total cost of material for three slabs is 600,000BT. the only things I haven't accounted for are form work and labour. I actually discovered a place that sells and hires form work.
First builder quoted me 2,000,000. The second quoted me "cant build for less than 3,000,000bt". That's for three slabs ONLY. So my wife and I sat down and had a discussion.
Is this house really what we need? Is it a little too big for us? If we scale back how much less will we be spending?

At the end of it all, we decided to come up with some thing a little smaller. So its ego left at the front dr. :oops:
Its great aiming high, but maybe I overdid it. It could have been "Andy's folley" in grand designs, lol.

I still intend to build using more modern materials. Just this time , I will concentrate more on cleverer/simpler construction techniques than out right perfection.
I already have rough sketchs, but I will take a few days to digest the design before I post them. The good bit is, I will have approved plans ready in a couple of weeks after commissioning them.
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