Concrete aint all concrete.

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Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Andyfteeze » Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:32 pm

Hello to all my friends, I am back after a break. I am now almost ready to start building. Today i am going to talk about concrete slabs and their different formulae.
The plan is that the columns and beams will be done the traditional method, Mpa30 concrete with reo for the columns and beams.
30% foam replacing the aggregate and with fiber reinforcement for the slabs. Ground floor, 1st floor and roof. No reo in the slabs.
The foam will reduce the density some what but will add water resistance and insulation properties. Its also lighter thus making the beams somewhat over engineered, but i can live with that. The fiber replaces the reo completely. It is a far superior method technically and practically. The fiber added at 3kg/m3 makes the mix about 1.5 times stronger than standard practice, is also resistant to corrosion, cracks are less likely as there is less shrinkage and It eliminates one stage of construction, buying and laying out the reo. The foam is mixed on site and blended into the truck. The fiber is then added to the mix. The foamed concrete is almost a slurry so its also self leveling. No need for a vibrator at all.

I will also go with the thai way of doing the slab form work upstairs using the cement planks. The biggest deviation is 200mm on top, not 45mm.
The idea is not to stray too far from what thai trades know.

Thats the plan. I am confidant that it will come off as I haven't planned anything that hasn't been done before. There is a fair amount of literature on the net for anyone else interested. I haven't sourced the foam, foam generator or fibers in thailand as yet. But they are available in most parts of asia so it shouldn't take too many phone calls by my purchasing officer ( my thai wife).
I still have a couple of months back in oz but i hope the first sod to be turned over in October, under my supervision.
Andyfteeze
 
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:58 pm

Andyfteeze wrote:Hello to all my friends, I am back after a break. I am now almost ready to start building. Today i am going to talk about concrete slabs and their different formulae.
The plan is that the columns and beams will be done the traditional method, Mpa30 concrete with reo for the columns and beams.
30% foam replacing the aggregate and with fiber reinforcement for the slabs. Ground floor, 1st floor and roof. No reo in the slabs.
The foam will reduce the density some what but will add water resistance and insulation properties. Its also lighter thus making the beams somewhat over engineered, but i can live with that. The fiber replaces the reo completely. It is a far superior method technically and practically. The fiber added at 3kg/m3 makes the mix about 1.5 times stronger than standard practice, is also resistant to corrosion, cracks are less likely as there is less shrinkage and It eliminates one stage of construction, buying and laying out the reo. The foam is mixed on site and blended into the truck. The fiber is then added to the mix. The foamed concrete is almost a slurry so its also self leveling. No need for a vibrator at all.

I will also go with the thai way of doing the slab form work upstairs using the cement planks. The biggest deviation is 200mm on top, not 45mm.
The idea is not to stray too far from what thai trades know.

Thats the plan. I am confidant that it will come off as I haven't planned anything that hasn't been done before. There is a fair amount of literature on the net for anyone else interested. I haven't sourced the foam, foam generator or fibers in thailand as yet. But they are available in most parts of asia so it shouldn't take too many phone calls by my purchasing officer ( my thai wife).
I still have a couple of months back in oz but i hope the first sod to be turned over in October, under my supervision.

It will be interesting to se if you can find the foam, foam generator and fibres and we will all be very helpfully if you do to pass on the sources.

Good luck
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Andyfteeze » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:10 pm

India seems to be the home for foam generators. European engineers have been using foam for a while. I have makers of fiber in Malaysia, Australia and America. I have found various companies in thailand that talk about them but no real details as yet. As is normally the case trying to find english info from thailand is difficult. I need to get my purchasing officer up to speed and let her loose on her mobile.
In Oz i have one company quoting 5kg box of synthetic fibers at $49.95.
The brands i have found are EPC, Novomesh, Fiberon. For the foam I have found sikaporo-40, Cellocrete from Italy. You won't find it at your local hardware store. Its more specialised still. I figure thai engineers aren't behind on this stuff. I have seen photos in promos of these methods used in thailand. As all the top brands for cement products have connections in thailand, I think its safe to say its here allright. I will keep you posted when i have more tangible info.
I expect the price to be about half in asia. Australia is the land of high prices these days.
Andyfteeze
 
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Tanlic » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:43 pm

ProFoam.jpg


They might be able to point you in the right direction
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Andyfteeze » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:06 pm

Thankyou kindly. I know they are around, because if its big in India, its got to filter out to thailand too.
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Andyfteeze » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:21 pm

Profoam is a dead end, but thanks anyway. I see I have sparked an interest. This could be a revolution..........maybe not.
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Andyfteeze » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:03 pm

I have found a supplier in Vietnam. He wants AUS$2500 (52,500b) for the machine and AUS$160 for the amount of foam I need. Plus AUS$150 for delivery. Depending on condition when I finish he will refund 40-50% of the machine's cost. OUCH. OUCH.
Unless I can hire it out a few times to get a good proportion back, its expensive.
The foam has to be 30% of mix so for 120m3, I need 90m3 cement and sand, 40m3 foam. Assuming 1500b /m3, standard cement will cost 180,000b. So for the foam to be cost effective, i need to be below 60,000b.
I Have made assumptions that may be wrong, but its a starting point.
I have found on Alibaba glass fiber additives at $11/7kg bag. But coming from China, not so sure.
I will keep looking
For the fiber additive to be used at the recommended dosage of 5kg/m3, i need 600kg.
The rebar would normally be about 1/3 cost of cement. So 60,000b. Add three days 3 thai workers and I need to find fiber at 110b/kg. That could be a hard ask. Again I have made assumptions. Lets see what my purchasing officer can come up with.
Realistically I think the foam may be a goer, but the fiber may not be cost effective.
Andyfteeze
 
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Andyfteeze » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:04 am

I have found one company that mixes polystyrene with concrete . I have also read that the variable size of the polystyrene balls can create a lumpy mix with hard and soft areas. Still looking.

I have found a supplier of Fiber. Elasto Plastic Concrete. EPC.
The product is Barchip48. The mix recomended for domestic slabs is 3kg per m3.
Price in Australia approax $15/kg. I expect it to be significantly lower in thailand.
If you google EPC, you can get all the specifications.

The contact is.
Narongkorn Meakwatana
NMeakwatana@elastoplastic.com
+66 817 103 444
Andyfteeze
 
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Re: Concrete aint all concrete.

Postby Andyfteeze » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:04 am

I think that on my build, fibers in the concrete wont be used. I have found the supplier and did some costings. But to use them, i need to add a couple of processes which can add to the probability of stuff ups in thailand. And on such a small scale that its not worth the extra hassles.
Foam cement on the other hand is looking like a goer on the first floor slab. I can do the slab as per standard construction then 50-75mm foamed concrete on top. It can be poured once the walls are in. I can use it to rebate the door sills and shower areas. At 200-500kg/m its insulation properties are very good. Its also good at not absorbing water. Its relative lack of strength is not important as it will be tiled over.
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