Load bearing with interlocking bricks, pls some advice

Almost everything that needs to be said about concrete, cement, hand-mixing, uses and prices has been said on this forum. Please check out the contributions before posting new questions.

Moderators: Sometimewoodworker, MGV12, BKKBILL, pattayapope

Load bearing with interlocking bricks, pls some advice

Postby MangoPin » Wed May 18, 2016 1:26 pm

Dear forum members,
As developer3d (how I wish he was active) I have got a thing for the interlocking pressed bricks. Used them for my swimming pool wall and kitchen half-wall. Pic below.

The only backdrop is to get the (not too wet and therefore weak) concrete into the holes. Takes a lot of patience and bamboo stick poking. Especially where the vertical rebar is inserted. Also, as pointed out, you might see some daylight from inside between the bricks. But this can be fixed.
Now I want to make a two-storey building with four flats. First this was planned using normal cinder blocks in a double wall configuration and 25 cm pillars and ring beams.
Could this structure be built just by using the bricks? Second floor will have (inverted) 50mm prefab slabs (pen poon) with a reinforced slab of 5 cm on top of that. If I anchor this to the vertical rebars in the bricks, can they take the weight? Then the roof will be a light steel structure with fiber roof tiles on top. More weight. Other issues? For the rebar, do I need in every brick, every second, third...? My ground is completely solid and stable.

Could I, more fore esthetic reasons, macon square external pillars with the bricks, sitting on a reinforced 80x20 cm slab, with 4 see hun rebar in the brick holes? Or should I skip the pillars and just go with the bricks?

Would it be safer to keep the concrete pillars and ring beams? I.e. the bricks are no longer load bearing. Or don't they add anything really? If omitted, a lot less work!

I realize that the quality of the bricks is crucial but hard to verify. For the amounts that I would need a recommended supplier in, lets say, Bangkok, would not add much to the cost. My local shop, who supplied the bricks I used so far without issues and cost me 9 Baht, I cannot really trust for quality.

Below a plan of the building, 16x11 meters. Still working on room heights, 2,6/2,8/3,0 meter (any suggestion?)


Any advice is highly appreciated
Magnus
Attachments
sfg.jpg
12459744_1646217925643830_754063949_n.jpg
User avatar
MangoPin
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:31 pm
Location: Wang Chan, Rayong

Re: Load bearing with interlocking bricks, pls some advice

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed May 18, 2016 2:49 pm

MangoPin wrote:First this was planned using normal cinder blocks in a double wall configuration and 25 cm pillars and ring beams.

Good idea.
MangoPin wrote:Could this structure be built just by using the bricks?

Bad idea.
A simple test is to take your sometimes iffy cinder block and drop it onto a concrete slab from about 5 feet. It will normally break in a number of places. If you look around Bangkok you'll see walls with huge cracks in them (including high rise buildings) the cracks don't run in any uniform way, they zigzag all over the place which means they haven't split along the concrete holding the blocks together, they've gone through the cinder blocks where the pressure from above is the greatest..... which will be your concrete floor.
In other words, cinder blocks are not really load bearing. I refer of course to the Besser block as I know it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_masonry_unit
It's also one of the reasons why Thai builders use columns and ring beams. There's a lot of downward pressure from that concrete floor, add to that a howling horizontal wind storm and you'll have pressure or load in two directions, which is why you see the splits in the shoddy built two and three storied town houses all over Bangkok.
A drive along any expressway/tollway in Bangkok will show you which buildings you wouldn't want to live in.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Load bearing with interlocking bricks, pls some advice

Postby MangoPin » Wed May 18, 2016 4:12 pm

Thank you for your swift response.
I do agree that the cinder blocks are very fragile. That is one more reason for me to use the pressed interlocking bricks. With or without columns and ring beams I will still use these interlocking bricks for my walls.

I also believe that although the cinder blocks (that I do not want anyway) are fragile, the reason for the very common cracked and croocked houses in this country is mainly the result of poor structures, poor concrete, inadequate curing, poor workmanship, not the cinder block itself. I have seen many cinder block houses in perfect condition even after many years.

I have seen that you are not really a friend of bricks, however I am sure you agree that there are many multistorey houses made entirely with burned bricks in Europe. Now the question is if the interlocking bricks I am referring to are as strong as a these bricks or a concrete ring beam (or at least strong enough to take the weight). I just made a test dropping an unfilled interlocking brick from two meters down on my concrete basement floor. It broke on the second drop. If I do the same with a concrete filled interlocking brick I cannont make it break, even if I throw it down. Sure it gets dented but that can be expected. It does not break into pieces.

I do not know how they make these bricks. They are high pressure pressed for sure. But I believe they are not burned. Anyone knows?

I actually got hooked on the bricks for this project after reading the below post from 2010.

Thanks again
Magnus

///
Re: Floating slab using EPS Styrofoam/Polyst instead of sand
Postby developer3d » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:29 pm

No although a lot of people have obviously enjoyed success with local block I am not a fan.

I looked into them and the quality is too variable for me and when they are poor they are poor - if you drop them on the ground from 2 feet they shatter.

I will be going with the Habitech Interlocking Block System ( the smaller size ) I think that this system is great, some people are concerned about the pressed "bricks" system but they are building muti-storey condos using them as load bearing walls !

multi-storey.jpg



The bricks are 8 baht each as opposed to the 4.5 I got down to for the thicker supposedly stronger blocks but they create a load bearing wall ( no posts required = no form work, no rendering required, built in electrical conduits = so much quicker to build ), according to my loose calculations they are actually cheaper than post and block when you factor everything in about building the posts and they are much much stronger and personally I think they look great oiled up with a100, it looks like a real "brick house" but that is just personal taste of course.

I will be using the same "lego" system to create everything from building walls to property perimeter walls to water tanks to swimming pool one advantage of that will be quality control as it is a lot harder to mess it up. Post and block assembly is a much higher skill set to be "repeatable" than stacking these bricks and filling the holes with mortar the key to the system is to get the first layer perfect ( ie you do it yourself ) and them they just self align and up you go.

bricks.jpg

///
User avatar
MangoPin
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:31 pm
Location: Wang Chan, Rayong

Re: Load bearing with interlocking bricks, pls some advice

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed May 18, 2016 5:44 pm

MangoPin wrote:I have seen that you are not really a friend of bricks, however I am sure you agree that there are many multistorey houses made entirely with burned bricks in Europe.

Europe is not Thailand and I was under the impression that you were using what us Aussies call Besser blocks that are not really load baring, which is why I posted the Wiki site, just to make sure.
I have seen the pressed interlocking blocks used, but not in Thailand. Therein lies your major problems, supply and builder knowledge. Even 4 years ago it was hard to find a builder who knew about gluing Superblock (AAC), which is why they had a demonstration team.
As far as free floating slabs are concerned that would depend on the area you are in and what the soil is like. Max had major problems when he floated paths and other foundation type concrete. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1970&start=2490
Unfortunately your photos did not show up, so could you please post them again.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5281
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Load bearing with interlocking bricks, pls some advice

Postby MangoPin » Wed May 18, 2016 6:03 pm

I have finally found a link to the Habitech interlocking brick (press)
http://www.habitech.ait.ac.th/new/docs/ ... 0Press.pdf
that is mentioned in the post by developer3d above. Their site, last updated 2009, does not really work.
However it gives some information on the so called soil bricks.
I think I will visit some factory producing these to discuss and get specifications.
Anyone knows of any manufacturer? I will also ask my local supplier where he gets his bricks.

For the actual construction works I have a builder I trust with anything in building and I am here permanently to oversee things. Actually, if you have (and trust) the specs and do things correctly, instead of, as many times, incorrectly, things are not that difficult.

Before submitting, I read your post, Roger. Ok, now we know what I am after. I have seen a number of decorative walls and no-pillar bungalows with the bricks mentioned. But no larger structures.

For the floating slabs, it was just mentioned in the same post. I amnot interested in this for this project.
Funny, I can see my pics as attachments at the bottom. But I attach again to this post.
Thanks for your time and efforts
sfg.jpg
4 flats

[img]
12459744_1646217925643830_754063949_n.jpg
[/img]
Attachments
12459744_1646217925643830_754063949_n.jpg
Pool area wall
User avatar
MangoPin
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:31 pm
Location: Wang Chan, Rayong


Return to cement, concrete and mortar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests