House near Rattanaburi, surin

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Thu May 12, 2016 9:13 am

splitlid wrote:By adding a second floor you are of course increasing the loads on your footings, so think about lightening the overall loads with different material choices.
Such as colorbond roof sheeting instead of concrete tiles.
I would also make the ground floor height slightly higher to 2.4m (min)
With 2.1m by the time you tile the floor, door frames and head heights will be very close to the underside of the beams.
It looks like your design is not engineer approved so your structural sizes at best are a guesstimate, plus, your hand mixed concrete is a bit hit and miss. So adding a further structure could be asking for trouble in the future.

Hi Splitlid
Thank you for your input, much appreciated, in reply to your comments :-

The roof covering will be cement composite tiles, about 1/4 the weight of concrete tiles, also the raised floor will be hollow core floor planks which do not need additional concrete or steel on top and is considerably lighter than a conventional slab. The additional weight of the extra height for the columns is negligible. The extra weight is well within the load bearing capacity of the pads already installed.

Ground floor slab to underside of raised floor slab is 2.5M

Yes door frames and windows will to underside of beams.

You are correct the design is my own, the beams are standard 40x20cm very common here in thailand. The concrete is machine mixed and not hit and miss

Asking for trouble in the future I don't think so.

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby pipoz » Thu May 12, 2016 10:19 am

tertim wrote:
columns and beams on stilts 1.jpg

Hi Pipoz
The rooms under the house will be finished using a bag finish :- before the mortar for the blockwork has set a cement bag is used to rub over the wall to fill and smooth the surface, once painted gives an acceptable utility look which is what the rooms will be.
Thank you for offering to estimate the additional costs for me much appreciated, the height from top of ground floor slab to the underside of raised floor slab is 2.5M

I found this company http://www.vconthai.com/hollow-core/ click on their catalouge link gives lots of information.

Pop kan mai


Did you have a look at the build by Somsip "Raised house in Nakhon Si Thammarat", as he built his house about 2.5 meters off the ground with a suspended raise slab on concrete planks. Sounds similar to you idea

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Thu May 12, 2016 10:38 am

Did you have a look at the build by Somsip "Raised house in Nakhon Si Thammarat", as he built his house about 2.5 meters off the ground with a suspended raise slab on concrete planks. Sounds similar to you idea

pipoz[/quote]

Hi pipoz yes I had a look, very impressive house although he used the conventional 5cm slabs with poured slab on top, I will be using the hollow core slabs with no pour.

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Mon May 16, 2016 6:39 pm

By raising the house 2.5M a huge amount of usable space is created, waiting for a quote to use hollow core floor slabs.
[/attachment]
columns and beams on stilts y 1.jpg
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columns and beams on stilts y.jpg
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby thomas11 » Fri May 20, 2016 8:02 pm

Awesome thread. I will be following
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Fri May 20, 2016 9:33 pm

thomas11 wrote:Awesome thread. I will be following


Hi thomas11
First of all let me welcome you to CTH I'm a relative new comer also, having joined about 6 months ago. Thank you for your interest I will be returning to Isaan next week to continue our build, busy now packing for the big move. Yam (wife) managed to find a truck and driver to move all our worldly possessions ( All the usual household stuff+2 motorbikes,1 motorbike sidecar and loads of tools) for 16,000 Baht, what a bargain, will let you know how it worked out.

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Tue May 24, 2016 8:43 am

Still waiting for reply from Bangkok company re hollow core slabs ,maybe get the wife to resend email in Thai, their web site in English is excellent so i'm a little surprised as to the lack of response. In the meantime I've found a company in Roi Et http://www.rc-con.co.th/ which is only 90KL from us and they manufacture prestressed hollow core slabs, hoping for a better response.
When I Return to Isaan early next week I shall be searching for hollow core slab company around Surin. Sisaket area.

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Thu May 26, 2016 10:41 am

Hollow core slabs

Just got quote for the slabs from Bangkok company :-

Supply ex factory B300/M2 x slab area120M2 = B36,000

Delivery B21,000

Fixing BB25,000

So that's a whopping B46,000 for delivery and fixing into place, I think the price of the slabs ex factory compares very favorably with the standard 5cm slab available everywhere, but the hollow core slab is a far superior in quality, strength and speed of construction.

Waiting for another quote from Roi et , much closer to our build so we will have to see how their price compares.
download.jpg
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby pipoz » Thu May 26, 2016 1:12 pm

tertim wrote:Hollow core slabs

Just got quote for the slabs from Bangkok company :-

Supply ex factory B300/M2 x slab area120M2 = B36,000

Delivery B21,000

Fixing BB25,000

So that's a whopping B46,000 for delivery and fixing into place, I think the price of the slabs ex factory compares very favorably with the standard 5cm slab available everywhere, but the hollow core slab is a far superior in quality, strength and speed of construction.

Waiting for another quote from Roi et , much closer to our build so we will have to see how their price compares.
The attachment download.jpg is no longer available


Pop kan mai


Hi, and from the attached Table, is your Ex Factory price of TB 300 per m2 for a 404, 604, 804, 605 or 805

How deep/what thickness is the HC Plank, 100mm or 120mm

At TB 36,000 + 21,000 + 25,000 = TB 82,000 for 120 m2 slab area = TB 683 per m2, (without the 50-70 mm topping screed slab). I would say your TB 683 + Topping Screed + Labour for Screed, will end up costing you around TB 1,000 per m2 for the finished Slab. :roll:

A 200 mm thick reinforced concrete slab with DB 12 Bars at 200 mm centers, (top and bottom) - Concrete (TB 340/m2), Reinforcement (TB 400/m2) and Labour (TB 250/m2), will cost you much the same.

pipoz
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby eyecatcher » Thu May 26, 2016 10:27 pm

tertim wrote:
splitlid wrote:By adding a second floor you are of course increasing the loads on your footings, so think about lightening the overall loads with different material choices.
Such as colorbond roof sheeting instead of concrete tiles.
I would also make the ground floor height slightly higher to 2.4m (min)
With 2.1m by the time you tile the floor, door frames and head heights will be very close to the underside of the beams.
It looks like your design is not engineer approved so your structural sizes at best are a guesstimate, plus, your hand mixed concrete is a bit hit and miss. So adding a further structure could be asking for trouble in the future.

Hi Splitlid
Thank you for your input, much appreciated, in reply to your comments :-

The roof covering will be cement composite tiles, about 1/4 the weight of concrete tiles, also the raised floor will be hollow core floor planks which do not need additional concrete or steel on top and is considerably lighter than a conventional slab. The additional weight of the extra height for the columns is negligible. The extra weight is well within the load bearing capacity of the pads already installed.


Ground floor slab to underside of raised floor slab is 2.5M

Yes door frames and windows will to underside of beams.

You are correct the design is my own, the beams are standard 40x20cm very common here in thailand. The concrete is machine mixed and not hit and miss

Asking for trouble in the future I don't think so.

Pop kan mai


Tertim
Sorry; have to jump in on a new construction technique? hollow core slabs without need for extra reinforcement on top....and quicker?
I wouldn't be so sure about the quality of a hollow core agin' a plank and in situ slab.
With regard to speed, I would disagree, I would say about equal, but thats based on the fact that a hollow core slab is NOT finished after they leave. it still needs a dry screed of some nature prior to any floor finish...tiles,carpet,timber.

I had a plank and concrete topping;(i think the gf was 250bt/m2 and first floor was yes 250bt/m2 the same) and it took an hour in the morning for the planks and 2 hour in the afternoon for the concrete topping per floor. So IMHO the speed is irrellevent...isnt it?
In the west hollow core slabs are only used for long spans, office blocks, care homes,hotels; they are expensive and are reluctantly used but they offer the best fire resistance;. as regards speed its fast enough to keep labour costs equal to traditional timber floors and save a few days.

Ok not criticising but if you think you are finished without a concrete topping screed, extra work to run a perimeter of blocks/bricks then thats great, construction is progressing just like an iphone.

but there is one industry in this world that continues exactly the same as it did from Roman times and even before....it hasnt really changed at all; and thats building a house.
dig hole, lay foundations, build walls,;lay floors. it has never moved on..has it?

nice job by the way :)
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Fri May 27, 2016 5:52 am

pipoz wrote:
tertim wrote:Hollow core slabs



Hi, and from the attached Table, is your Ex Factory price of TB 300 per m2 for a 404, 604, 804, 605 or 805

How deep/what thickness is the HC Plank, 100mm or 120mm

At TB 36,000 + 21,000 + 25,000 = TB 82,000 for 120 m2 slab area = TB 683 per m2, (without the 50-70 mm topping screed slab). I would say your TB 683 + Topping Screed + Labour for Screed, will end up costing you around TB 1,000 per m2 for the finished Slab. :roll:

A 200 mm thick reinforced concrete slab with DB 12 Bars at 200 mm centers, (top and bottom) - Concrete (TB 340/m2), Reinforcement (TB 400/m2) and Labour (TB 250/m2), will cost you much the same.

pipoz


Hi Pipoz
I will be using the 605 80mm thick planks which will support a safe live load of 300KG without additional concrete topping, of course a screed will be laid on top for tiling but this is considered non structural and is indeed part of the live load calculations.
Just received quote from company in Roi et for B45,000 delivered on site, I have decided to install the slabs myself making a considerable saving on the B25,000 already quoted.

So my new estimate is 45,000+2,000(labour)= 47,000/120M2 about B400 per M2 which is considerably less than the other two methods od constructing a 1st floor concrete slab.

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Fri May 27, 2016 6:37 am

eyecatcher wrote:
Tertim
Sorry; have to jump in on a new construction technique? hollow core slabs without need for extra reinforcement on top....and quicker?
I wouldn't be so sure about the quality of a hollow core agin' a plank and in situ slab.
With regard to speed, I would disagree, I would say about equal, but thats based on the fact that a hollow core slab is NOT finished after they leave. it still needs a dry screed of some nature prior to any floor finish...tiles,carpet,timber.

I had a plank and concrete topping;(i think the gf was 250bt/m2 and first floor was yes 250bt/m2 the same) and it took an hour in the morning for the planks and 2 hour in the afternoon for the concrete topping per floor. So IMHO the speed is irrellevent...isnt it?
In the west hollow core slabs are only used for long spans, office blocks, care homes,hotels; they are expensive and are reluctantly used but they offer the best fire resistance;. as regards speed its fast enough to keep labour costs equal to traditional timber floors and save a few days.

Ok not criticising but if you think you are finished without a concrete topping screed, extra work to run a perimeter of blocks/bricks then thats great, construction is progressing just like an iphone.

but there is one industry in this world that continues exactly the same as it did from Roman times and even before....it hasnt really changed at all; and thats building a house.
dig hole, lay foundations, build walls,;lay floors. it has never moved on..has it?

nice job by the way :)


Hello eyecatcher first of all let me say how much I enjoy your story, I always look forward to reading the ebb and flow of your building along with the personal touch.

The quality control in manufacturing HC slabs as apposed to 5cm RC slabs is much higher, relatively high tech equipment is used in the process, but lets put this aside for one moment. Your comment that the HC slabs may have quality control issues equally applies to the 5mm RC slabs in fact I think even more so. Therefor it follows that both methods of construction would be suspect if you are concerned about the quality of the precast concrete.

When the RC slabs are in place and the joints are grouted that's it, no concrete topping is required or needed for structural integrity. The placing and fitting of the RC slabs will take one day with a team of four people, of course a concrete screed will be needed for floor finishes but this will be carried out at the tiling stage, a long way off at the moment. iphone??

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri May 27, 2016 7:20 am

tertim wrote:I will be using the 605 80mm thick planks which will support a safe live load of 300KG without additional concrete topping, of course a screed will be laid on top for tiling but this is considered non structural and is indeed part of the live load calculations.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but pre-stressed slabs need to be tied together, which is why trench mesh and concrete are lade over the top after a liberal cover of binding material like Lanko so that both lot of concrete mesh together.
Think about your 300 kg load, it's not much when you consider a man weighing say 75 kilos jumps from a ladder onto the slab. Then the forces applied to the planks is increased 10 fold, depending on the height he jumps from and his weight because he lands on just his feet. It's the same as watching a lady in high heels try and walk on a tarred road or footpath during a very hot day, the force is far in excess of the opposite force.
It's why in most cases where pre-stressed slabs are used the manufacturer will recommend a top screed layer with trench mesh incorporated.
Here's just one of a hundred sites that talk about why you should: http://www.cscscreeding.co.uk/2011/09/c ... te-planks/
It's a British site and refers to screeding, which is why I posted it.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Fri May 27, 2016 9:02 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:
tertim wrote:I will be using the 605 80mm thick planks which will support a safe live load of 300KG without additional concrete topping, of course a screed will be laid on top for tiling but this is considered non structural and is indeed part of the live load calculations.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but pre-stressed slabs need to be tied together, which is why trench mesh and concrete are lade over the top after a liberal cover of binding material like Lanko so that both lot of concrete mesh together.
Think about your 300 kg load, it's not much when you consider a man weighing say 75 kilos jumps from a ladder onto the slab. Then the forces applied to the planks is increased 10 fold, depending on the height he jumps from and his weight because he lands on just his feet. It's the same as watching a lady in high heels try and walk on a tarred road or footpath during a very hot day, the force is far in excess of the opposite force.
It's why in most cases where pre-stressed slabs are used the manufacturer will recommend a top screed layer with trench mesh incorporated.
Here's just one of a hundred sites that talk about why you should: http://www.cscscreeding.co.uk/2011/09/c ... te-planks/
It's a British site and refers to screeding, which is why I posted it.


Hi RR thank you for your comments :-

If you have a look here http://www.vconthai.com/hollow-core/ it explains how the slabs are keyed together using structural grout, the key ways are built into the slabs at the manufacturing process.

The figure of 300KG/M2 live load is made up as follows 200KG/M2(UK standard for domestic floors)+100KG/M2 Screeding for tiling (my own generous calculation)

I'm typing this before I look at the web sites you have suggested I will have a look when I'v sent this reply.


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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby pipoz » Fri May 27, 2016 12:45 pm

Hi Pipoz
I will be using the 605 80mm thick planks which will support a safe live load of 300KG without additional concrete topping, of course a screed will be laid on top for tiling but this is considered non structural and is indeed part of the live load calculations.
Just received quote from company in Roi et for B45,000 delivered on site, I have decided to install the slabs myself making a considerable saving on the B25,000 already quoted.

So my new estimate is 45,000+2,000(labour)= 47,000/120M2 about B400 per M2 which is considerably less than the other two methods od constructing a 1st floor concrete slab.

Pop kan mai[/quote]


Hi tertim and that's good

The topping screed with a wire mesh will add to your safe live load capacity (if you need it - which I doubt you will for a residential use) according to that Table from the Supplier

What span are you going for with the 605 80mm thick plank?

Is that new quote from the Company in Roi Et http://www.rc-con.co.th/

I am contemplating using your Hollow Core idea for my Flat Roof Slab area to my Garage

pipoz .
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3 WEST GARAGE BEAM COLUMN AND ROOF DWG-2004-D-WG-02-R1 (Large).jpg
3 WEST GARAGE BEAM COLUMN AND ROOF DWG-2004-D-WG-02-R1 (Large)
4 WEST GARAGE SECTION C-C DWG-2004-D-WG-03-R1 (Large).jpg
4 WEST GARAGE SECTION C-C DWG-2004-D-WG-03-R1 (Large)
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