Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Air conditioning, fans, and anything related to keeping it cool, such as insulation. This would include any posts generally discussing how to keep it cool, such as which types of blocks are better insulators.... ideal wall thickness for keeping an A/C house cool, etc.

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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby oil » Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:38 pm

first of all thx for all the links here, CTH is just priceless and i loved the BTU calculator ...
so i played around a bit now with it can my results are quite lower then what i read here therefore i am not quite sure if i right, any expert on the AirCon field can advise me a bit.

From all the readings i would like to go for a Mitsubishi Mr Slim Type A/C

as for my BTU Calcuation i came up with

Normal Insulation (although ours is Good) 12 Celcius Cooling should be more then enough, lets say 36 Degrees to 24 Degrees

Master Bedroom Small (18 sqm), - Normal Insulation 6600 BTU / 2000 Watt || Good Insulation 4000 BTU / 1200 Watt
Master Bed + Dressing (29 sqm), - Normal Insulation 9000 BTU / 2600 Watt || Good Insulation 5400 BTU / 1600 Watt
Guest Bedroom (16 sqm), - Normal Insulation 6000 BTU / 1800 Watt || Good Insulation 3600 BTU / 1000 Watt
Office (21 sqm) , - Normal Insulation 7400 BTU / 2200 Watt || Good Insulation 4400 BTU / 1200 Watt
Living + Kitchen (48 sqm), - Normal Insulation 12600 BTU / 3700 Watt || Good Insulation 7600 BTU / 2200 Watt

As for the Insulation Claims
Our House uses Q-Con Extra Cool Blocks with 15 cm thickness which supposed to have a R-Value of 1.5
we also have less windows and those will be in Shadowed already and it will be
Double Gazing with 5/20 Argon/5 Glasses in some uPVC profile, they supposed to have a R-Value of 1.3 as well, therefore my guess is that our house can be considered as a Good Insulation. The Ceiling whill just be 2 layers of (forgot the name) 2x7 cm and this supposed to have a R-Value of 4.2

But when i made the BTU Calucations it really seems like i need to have some AirCons with a Tiny BTU most of the machines have way more?
therefore the big confusion ...

One thing thou ... the electricity in our house has only 15 Ampere with 220 Volts we have a max of 3300 Wattage to use, therefore the bigger machines wont run anyways ... accorind to a Wiki Article i read it that BTU x 0.29 is roughly the Wattage it uses ...

Anyhow ...is my calcuation right?
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:30 pm

oil wrote:first of all thx for all the links here, CTH is just priceless and i loved the BTU calculator ...
so i played around a bit now with it can my results are quite lower then what i read here therefore i am not quite sure if i right, any expert on the AirCon field can advise me a bit.

From all the readings i would like to go for a Mitsubishi Mr Slim Type A/C

as for my BTU Calcuation i came up with

Normal Insulation (although ours is Good) 12 Celcius Cooling should be more then enough, lets say 36 Degrees to 24 Degrees

Master Bedroom Small (18 sqm), - Normal Insulation 6600 BTU / 2000 Watt || Good Insulation 4000 BTU / 1200 Watt
Master Bed + Dressing (29 sqm), - Normal Insulation 9000 BTU / 2600 Watt || Good Insulation 5400 BTU / 1600 Watt
Guest Bedroom (16 sqm), - Normal Insulation 6000 BTU / 1800 Watt || Good Insulation 3600 BTU / 1000 Watt
Office (21 sqm) , - Normal Insulation 7400 BTU / 2200 Watt || Good Insulation 4400 BTU / 1200 Watt
Living + Kitchen (48 sqm), - Normal Insulation 12600 BTU / 3700 Watt || Good Insulation 7600 BTU / 2200 Watt

As for the Insulation Claims
Our House uses Q-Con Extra Cool Blocks with 15 cm thickness which supposed to have a R-Value of 1.5
we also have less windows and those will be in Shadowed already and it will be
Double Gazing with 5/20 Argon/5 Glasses in some uPVC profile, they supposed to have a R-Value of 1.3 as well, therefore my guess is that our house can be considered as a Good Insulation. The Ceiling whill just be 2 layers of (forgot the name) 2x7 cm and this supposed to have a R-Value of 4.2

But when i made the BTU Calucations it really seems like i need to have some AirCons with a Tiny BTU most of the machines have way more?
therefore the big confusion ...

One thing thou ... the electricity in our house has only 15 Ampere with 220 Volts we have a max of 3300 Wattage to use, therefore the bigger machines wont run anyways ... accorind to a Wiki Article i read it that BTU x 0.29 is roughly the Wattage it uses ...

Anyhow ...is my calcuation right?


First point you have a 15/45amp meter so it will run any of the ACs and you can draw 50 amps with no problems, assuming your wiring is up to spec. So you can draw 11000 watts. Also don't forget that the power rating is the maximum draw so 20,000 watts will probably be OK on a 15/45 meter as most appliances work at much less than maximum and you don't usually have them all on at one time.

Point 2 the minimum size of AC easily available here is 9,000 BTU.

The figures you quote seem to be very low, your insulation seems to be good to very good. We have a 16sqm room wit poor to no insulation and a minimum size 9,000 BTU Mitsubishi Mr Slim and it's more than enough.

I would suggest putting 1 x 9,000 BTU AC in either in the large master bedroom or office, and see what you think. You can easily swap it out for a bigger one and use it in one of your other rooms if it's not powerful enough. That way you loose very little and can get what you need.

If you have the money inverter AC units are more flexible.

Don't fall into the trap of going bigger just because it's not much more money.
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby MGV12 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:35 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:If you have the money inverter AC units are more flexible.


Indeed they are: although we have a highly insulated house we do have air con in our master bedroom. Last year the Samsung we had started to be troublesome and so we replaced it with an LG inverter. Not that much more expensive than a conventional split-system and yet it made a big difference. Whereas 'traditional' splits are either on or off, the inverter is progressive in operation ... quieter and with more control over the required temperature range. I did notice a significant decrease in the electricity during the hot season [year on year] and wouldn't hesitate in recommending inverter ... we also have an inverter fridge. A very few years ago Inverter appliances had as many cons as they did pros; more cons in some circumstances. However, increased research and development ... especially in the PV solar market .... has resulted in major advancements being made. Apparently Fujitsu and Daikin are at the forefront of this research but I have no problems with my LG unit.

We [along with many consumers in Thailand] do not get consistent incoming voltage ... our 'traditional' air con would struggle to cope with fluctuations [consuming more as it was constantly on start-up] with little output ... the circuitry in the current generation inverter appliances enable it to cope better.

Reverse-cycle is another option. I wish I had considered this after the cold spell we had in the north last month. Be it due to El Nino/Global Warming/natural fluctuations or whatever ... in Thailand the highs are getting higher and the lows lower. A reverse-cycle aircon will cool on the hot days but can work in reverse to warm on the cold days.

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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:13 pm

MGV12 wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:If you have the money inverter AC units are more flexible.


Indeed they are: although we have a highly insulated house we do have air con in our master bedroom. Last year the Samsung we had started to be troublesome and so we replaced it with an LG inverter. Not that much more expensive than a conventional split-system and yet it made a big difference. Whereas 'traditional' splits are either on or off, the inverter is progressive in operation ... quieter and with more control over the required temperature range. I did notice a significant decrease in the electricity during the hot season [year on year] and wouldn't hesitate in recommending inverter ... we also have an inverter fridge. A very few years ago Inverter appliances had as many cons as they did pros; more cons in some circumstances. However, increased research and development ... especially in the PV solar market .... has resulted in major advancements being made. Apparently Fujitsu and Daikin are at the forefront of this research but I have no problems with my LG unit.


Could you give the floor area, ceiling hight and size of AC you put in please. Also what is the usual drop in temperature that you want.
This would give a real world example for those who insulate well :)
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby MGV12 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:50 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:Could you give the floor area, ceiling hight and size of AC you put in please. Also what is the usual drop in temperature that you want.
This would give a real world example for those who insulate well :)


I did consider doing so when posting ... however ... the unique shape of the room and immediate environment would negate any real-world value to others for comparative purposes.

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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby oil » Wed Mar 16, 2016 4:08 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
MGV12 wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:If you have the money inverter AC units are more flexible.


Indeed they are: although we have a highly insulated house we do have air con in our master bedroom. Last year the Samsung we had started to be troublesome and so we replaced it with an LG inverter. Not that much more expensive than a conventional split-system and yet it made a big difference. Whereas 'traditional' splits are either on or off, the inverter is progressive in operation ... quieter and with more control over the required temperature range. I did notice a significant decrease in the electricity during the hot season [year on year] and wouldn't hesitate in recommending inverter ... we also have an inverter fridge. A very few years ago Inverter appliances had as many cons as they did pros; more cons in some circumstances. However, increased research and development ... especially in the PV solar market .... has resulted in major advancements being made. Apparently Fujitsu and Daikin are at the forefront of this research but I have no problems with my LG unit.


Could you give the floor area, ceiling hight and size of AC you put in please. Also what is the usual drop in temperature that you want.
This would give a real world example for those who insulate well :)


I am curious about some more data as well just to compare it a bit better :D
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby oil » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:51 pm

Today evening i was sitting together with some friends and where talking about the BTU AirCon issue and he actually said that all the BTU mesaurements have one practical Problem. And i shouldnt go to low on them!

If you come home and the House is heated up to 36 Degrees it takes one Hour just to cool the room below 30 Degrees on a well insulated House where the Living room was 72 sqm ... and he has in there a 24.000 BTU machine.

Well i think that the 72 sqm is quite a huge area. but we are talking about 6 Degrees i could hardly imagine why this would take so long, prolly only cause of the huge area it needs to cover. He said he can have it cooler quicker only after he put in the house another 24.000 BTU machine.

Got me thinking ... i tend to think now its only not working to well cause of the 72 sqm not cause of BTU being to less??
what you guys think?
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:50 am

oil wrote:If you come home and the House is heated up to 36 Degrees it takes one Hour just to cool the room below 30 Degrees on a well insulated House where the Living room was 72 sqm ... and he has in there a 24.000 BTU machine.

Firstly, if I came home and found my well insulated house was 36 degrees , then I would look at my insulation and say it needs fixing straight away. Secondly, I'd want to know why my insulated roof had let in so much heat and why the Superblock walls were not doing their job. Finally I'd want to know why my Mitsubishi inverter 24,000 btu air conditioner was not functioning properly in such a small area as 72 sq mts.
One of my bedrooms is that size (70 sq mts) and cools to 25 degrees in less that 10 minutes and if it didn't I'd be calling my architect, my ex builders, the Or Bor Tor and his engineer and Thai Watsadu for giving me the name of the agent for superblock.
oil wrote:Got me thinking ... i tend to think now its only not working to well cause of the 72 sqm not cause of BTU being to less??
what you guys think?

Why is it that everyone complains after a few beers about the time it takes their air conditioner to cool a room in their well insulated house, yet you read they have cut corners on insulation right from the start by building their house on the ground, used cheap as s**t red bricks, used tiles because they look nice and haven't put in insulation because the tile man didn't understand and the ceiling man did a rushed job and forgot about the insulation above the ceiling, let alone a foil barrier.
It's like buying a black car then bitching because the air barely works on max. And it's the reason Thai air condition people put in a higher BTU air conditioner than is necessary in normal circumstances.
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby oil » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:25 am

ha ha, thx Roger ... sweet answer :)

I did run a little test when i got home yesterday ... and on a very badly insulated house i currently live in with lots of windows and leakages... we had 32 Degrees C. Roomsize about 25 sqm, and like 7 minutes i turned the machine it was feelable well inside although the tempeature check shows 29 Degrees, So i had a hard time understanding how this could be what he mentioned, thought thou that hist starting temp. was well higher ...

but again thx for the best answer :D
was prolly the beer which spoke out of him :D
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby schuimpge » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:33 am

RR sums it up nicely I think..

My master-bed has a 4 meter heigh ceiling.. yep, you read that correct, see my build-story.
Its approx 5x5.5 sqmt. So quite a volume to cool.
Outside walls are rendered single red-brick. They are facing full sun for the whole day from April to October..(old 1995 house) and they make a european heat radiator jealous for the heat they dissipate at night..lol. Roof has PU-Spray Foam.

So far from ideal situation, but coming to the topic at hand, we're using an 18,000 BTU Panasonic (non-inverter), 2 years old now.
It takes maybe 15 minutes to bring the room from outside temperature to 26 - 27'C.

If your friends are complaining their aircon takes so long, they might just want to have it cleaned and checked on a regular basis, not when it breaks down, something so easily forgotten over here... :mrgreen:
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby oil » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:48 am

i am still a bit confused ... with the EER ... the supposed Energy Efficiency Rating and the Inverters ..
since i always did get great advice here, just lemme ask ...

On some Thai Website i read that Mitusubishi AirCons have a EER of 16, use very less Electricity when running but therefore the machines are more expensive..

Then we visited a Friend which had just recently put in some AirCons in the House
There was a
12.000 BTU, Samsung, which suppoed to have a SEER or 18
Yearly Wattage of 1966 and Yearly Cost of 7787 if wifey did translate the labeling correct
See Attached Image,
2016-03-16 21.14.06-Samsung.jpg
Samsung

I looked up was SEER means, and its supposed to be a EER or round about 15
So the Mitsubishi one still supposed to be the best... if the 16 EER is true

Then some other AirCons she bought was a
12.000 BTU Panasonic, when i googled the EER of this was it supposed to have a EER of 3 ... which seems way off somehow, the image reads like
Yearly Wattage of 2796 and Yearly Cost of 9173
2016-03-16 21.15.28-Panasonic.jpg
Panasonic


On Our Panasic AirCon the Label outside reads as well as EER or 3
so the different between the EER rating seems to be insane ..

As for the Inverter goes ... i read that a inverter only pays off in terms of electriciy saving if its runs longer then 10 hours per day ... which would be in our case litereally never.. cause i always cool only the room down and i dont want to sleep with AirCon on..

So ... is that what i read about the Inverters true .. or are there some other benefits i am missing ..
and also about the Energy Rating and the EER this confuses me a bit ..
thx
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby olavhome » Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:17 am

A question about distance between inside and outside units:
The outside units isnt exactly "beauties" and I like to keep them if possible at the back of house.
This will result in distrance between inside and outside units for one bedroom for 10 meters.
Im quite sure shop will not be to happy about this because they have to og to inside roof, but is there any technical problem doing so :?:
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:17 am

olavhome wrote:A question about distance between inside and outside units:
The outside units isnt exactly "beauties" and I like to keep them if possible at the back of house.
This will result in distrance between inside and outside units for one bedroom for 10 meters.
Im quite sure shop will not be to happy about this because they have to og to inside roof, but is there any technical problem doing so :?:

Humm. how about http://bfy.tw/53b4 for an answer? Or http://bfy.tw/53bH this one
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:21 am

olavhome wrote:Im quite sure shop will not be to happy about this because they have to og to inside roof, but is there any technical problem doing so

When you consider shopping malls, hospitals and other large buildings with large distances for the cooled air to travel through ducting for miles, there seems to be no problem at all in distance from the unit to the outlet.
The only reason shops complain is they use more copper piping and insulation over a longer area. When you consider in 90% of the cases they fit the air con unit within less than 3 metres from the compressor you would think they could absorb the extra cost, but as they claim they are offering the cheapest price possible, I guess they are trying to maximise profit.
Unless the rotary pump in the compressor is lower than specified it should have no problem. However be aware they like to keep the pump compressor at as near to the same height as the inside units, so I suspect they are worried the compressor will be under duress lifting the coolant to the inside unit and may die before the warranty period has ended. :lol:
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Re: Best Air Conditioner brand for reliability

Postby olavhome » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:40 pm

Thanks for quick reply.
Im also thinking about putting the compressor with " longest distance" on top of the other for redusing both distance and pressure.
My plan is to put the pipes beside the downpour from the gutter for redusing the visual effect as much as possible.
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