Chance Remark leads to New Build

Any story related to building in the LOS, whether everything turned out hunky dory or not!

Moderators: MGV12, BKKBILL, fredlk

Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:50 am

Yesterday I mentioned that a chance remark is leading to a new build. I am starting this thread now as I have already intimated that I am a complete numbskull when it comes to DIY / Construction. Notwithstanding that RR seems to think that my lightbulb and plug changing skills puts me in the Master Builder category as far as the average Thai goes :shock: :shock:

I am going to need some serious advice and that advice starts before I spend a satang.

For just over 3 years I have been renting a typical Thai built house, approx 120m2 with an addition 60m2 covered balcony. In that time we have been very happy with our lifestyle, the only negative I can say about the house, which appears very typical, is the lack of power sockets ( at one stage I thought that they must cost a fortune here ) :lol:

Anyway. Last year when I went to pay the rent, the owner asked me if I wanted to buy the house. After a bit of a discussion I asked her how much. She gave me a price and was even willing to provide payment options if I needed them. The price she gave me was, to my mind on the high side but about average for the overpriced area that we live in. I told her I would talk it over with the Long Haired General.

A few nights later I brought the subject up with the LHG over dinner. This was greeted with an emphatic NO, for 2 reasons.

1. Cost too much money.

2. I not want in my name cos it is not my money.

I was a bit lost for words and could come up with nothing to counter her logic.

The cogs were now into overdrive and some serious research was about to be undertaken.

Which led me to this site where I have been lurking and soaking up information.
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:56 am

My research quickly led to the conclusion that we would not be building anywhere near our current location. I would not pay the crazy prices for land. This somewhat cooled my enthusiasm but my quest for knowledge had been tweaked, I continued to read digest and learn as much as I could.

Over the course of the next couple of months, my quest for knowledge obviously started getting on the LHG’s nerves. This prompted some serious discussions. Things started to swing in my favour when I explained the long term benefits of building our own place, rather than renting. When I explained what an Usufruct was and how it could be used, what had been an emphatic NO, was quickly becoming a good idea.
A builder becomes involved.

BoB the builder is the LHG’s Cousin and wife, it was because of them that I met the LHG. I have known them as long as I have known the LHG and we eat and drink most weekends. Nicer people you could not meet.

About 6 months ago, whilst we were eating and having a beer, I asked them casually, how much they could build this rented house for. 120m2 + 60m2 balcony, to say the answer shocked me would be an understatement.

Brain straight into overdrive.
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:28 am

Some serious discussions and house designing then took place between me and the LHG. We came up with a design that suited us both. A copy of this was then given to team BoB and we asked them to give us a price for construction. The only caveats we gave them was to use Q-Con blocks and CPAC roof tiles.

About 6 weeks later, team BoB came back to us with a price. They added a little caveat of their own. When we buy a piece of land, if we could provide a piece for the LHG’s old lady and sister, they would build a small house for them and would build ours for XXXXXX amount.

I was just about to send the LHG home with a fistful of dollars, with instructions to beg, steal or commit murder, but not to come back until she had secured somewhere between 1 or 2 Rai of land. Then reality set in.

Stop. More research is needed. So more research was carried out.

Do I think Team BoB are trying to rip me off? NO, limited knowledge with no experience can be a dangerous thing. I am still no further forward than being a qualified numbskull, but I am seriously doubting that the price Team BoB has given me is achievable.

So I am kindly asking those that have the skills and experience to look over the attached design and come up with a rough figure. It could be that it is this numbskull that is way out and Team Bob are on the money. If they are, the LHG will be getting dispatched post haste to buy the land.

House.jpg
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:04 pm

Mai Mii wrote:Do I think Team BoB are trying to rip me off? NO, limited knowledge with no experience can be a dangerous thing. I am still no further forward than being a qualified numbskull, but I am seriously doubting that the price Team BoB has given me is achievable.

You don't say if you are supplying the material for the build and team Bob just doing the labour.
There are too many variables involved, you have to be more specific. I can tell you it took 4,000 superblock to build my house, but my house is 450 + square mts and has two floors and needed 51 piles to support it because of the ground it was built in. My first builder quoted 1.3 million just for the structure, plumbing and electrical with me supplying all the material. It also didn't included the soffits and ceiling and also the roof which is Colorbond. There was a lot of other things he didn't consider his responsibility, even though the contract stated it was.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5282
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:52 pm

Roger

Thanks for the reply and understood.

The price Team BoB gave me was inclusive of materials and labour. Less kitchen complete and bathroom fittings that I would supply for them to fit.

I understand that the actual house is very simple and straightforward, I like simple :D I was also brought up on the KISS it principle :wink:

I am also working on the principle that the cost will only ever go North, I would just rather know how far North it might potentially go before embarking on something that is going to kick me in the goollies. If Team Bob had came in higher, with a view to coming in underpriced, I could understand that logic. What I really do not want to happen is coming in low and the price moves North at a scale that I am not comfortable with. That is where my concern is at the moment.

These are the prices that I have estimated at the moment.

CPAC roof B 550,000
Q Con Blocks B 150,000
Other Q Con B 150,000
Windows B 350,000 Taken from Windsor website.
Electrics B 120,000
Labour Around 30 - 35% of total cost

These costs are close to what I was expecting, no real surprises there. No groundworks in there and this is perhaps where I am getting my knickers in a twist. I have no idea what these are or what they are likely to be near. So either I am really overestimating the cost of the groundworks, or the price I have been given is woefully short.

The footprint is about 300m2 in total, so if you or anyone who is a bit of a guru in this department could put a rough cost to the footings, rebar, concrete for this size of footprint would be fantastic. It may also need pilings But the additional costs of those would not be a deal breaker.

Cheers

MM
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby pipoz » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:09 pm

Mai Mii wrote:Roger

Thanks for the reply and understood.

The price Team BoB gave me was inclusive of materials and labour. Less kitchen complete and bathroom fittings that I would supply for them to fit.

I understand that the actual house is very simple and straightforward, I like simple :D I was also brought up on the KISS it principle :wink:

I am also working on the principle that the cost will only ever go North, I would just rather know how far North it might potentially go before embarking on something that is going to kick me in the goollies. If Team Bob had came in higher, with a view to coming in underpriced, I could understand that logic. What I really do not want to happen is coming in low and the price moves North at a scale that I am not comfortable with. That is where my concern is at the moment.

These are the prices that I have estimated at the moment.

CPAC roof B 550,000
Q Con Blocks B 150,000
Other Q Con B 150,000
Windows B 350,000 Taken from Windsor website.
Electrics B 120,000
Labour Around 30 - 35% of total cost

These costs are close to what I was expecting, no real surprises there. No groundworks in there and this is perhaps where I am getting my knickers in a twist. I have no idea what these are or what they are likely to be near. So either I am really overestimating the cost of the groundworks, or the price I have been given is woefully short.

The footprint is about 300m2 in total, so if you or anyone who is a bit of a guru in this department could put a rough cost to the footings, rebar, concrete for this size of footprint would be fantastic. It may also need pilings But the additional costs of those would not be a deal breaker.

Cheers

MM


From your Plan, it looks like you are about 240 m2 under the Roof Line? Is that about correct, as I cant see where you get your 300 m2 Footprint from?

pipoz
User avatar
pipoz
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:41 pm
Location: Udon Thani Sometimes

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:24 pm

Hi Pipoz,

You are indeed correct. Footprint is approx. 240m2 and not 300m2 as stated.
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:42 pm

Mai Mii wrote:If Team Bob had came in higher, with a view to coming in underpriced, I could understand that logic. What I really do not want to happen is coming in low and the price moves North at a scale that I am not comfortable with.

Being a single story building I would say you could get away with pad footings but having that damned heavy roof might mean piles which are expensive, there are two types driven and bored, my bore piles came in at 650,000, driven piles would have come in at a third of that, but it will depend where the land is situated. I have neighbours and driven piles would have demolished their Issan built quality structure which I would have been held responsible for.
Again as far as rebar is concerned it will depend on the quality and quantity used. Steel is supposed to be at an all time low, but only because China has flooded the market with their cheap imitation "high quality" rebar that is not graded. I purchased all mine from Tata Steel and it all came with tags stating the grade, thickness, strength and date of manufacture along with the batch number.
I went and saw the local Or Bor Tor engineer a lot as in my area he had to approve the plans from the architect, but also get an engineer to sign off on them. In many areas outside cities they don't require this and it's Rafferty's rules.
Are you doing single layered walls or double skinned with a cavity?
I could have had the shell of the house built for a lot less than 1.3m, the concrete company gave me a quote of just 750,000 from off the plans, but again it will depend on the material used.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5282
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby eyecatcher » Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:34 pm

hi;
As RR has mentioned, there are so many anomalies and criteria as well as the unforeseen to accurately forecast an estimate; and any decent builder would/should mention this not only to cover his own arse to but to cover yours.

Most builders will look at your sketch and immediately smile and tell your 2 million baht; that's the price, that's what it should be, and that's what is here from your sketch.
Yes the dreaded piles; most of this money is poured into the ground, wasted in fairness with over engineering but lets start you off with a perfect flat site, lovely ground and simple pad footings and ring beams.

For your ground floor area you can assume for estimating the foundations (pads,columns and ring beams) around 1500-2000bt/m2.
The the ground floor; with a reinforced planked floor and concrete topping supplied and fitted for 500bt/m2

Try and pro rata a cost for each element into a m2 rate (such as 100m2 of walls) or a cost per item (such as a water tank/pump/air con unit). even the electrics; I costed my electrics per point........so you can assume each plug socket needs an average of 3m cable, 3m chases cutting, a back box, a face plate.

your roof looks like it would be simple enough so try to draw out the rafters, ceiling joists and measure/cost them about 80bt/m
Like all of us on here; you will end up compiling a long list of components within each structural element to put a budget cost against.
Foundations
Ground floor slab
Ground floor to roof columns
roof structure and tiling
internal and external walls
external windows and doors
internal doors, joinery, staircases
plastering and rendering
electrical installation
plumbing installation
sanitary ware and bathroom fittings
wall and floor tiling
painting and decorating
kitchen
externals-drainage and pavings

You should be able to get a ball park nett cost for the job; for this size of house I would add a 20% contingency and dont take this the wrong way but your admitted inexperience in building will leave you probably another 15% light in the estimated cost simply because there are jobs that are carried out that you will probably not think of; such as overheads, provision of tools, scaffolds, bamboo props, pipe fittings, glue,nails, grinding disc and welding rods; transport costs etc etc etc.

Good luck.........and I like your writing style; if you add some drama its not too dissimilar to mine :wink:
eyecatcher
 
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:50 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:14 pm

That was my thoughts also, that footings would hopefully all that would be required. If additional costs for pilings are needed, going on your costs. it would be prudent to add this and if it is not needed, that's a bonus.

If this is getting done, it will be done correctly as far as plans, permission etc are concerned. Info on steel greatly appreciated and will be pursued with the gusto of a dog at a bone to ensure that it is correct grades, thickness and strength. The land will be in predominantly farmland territory between Saraburi and Ang Thong, hopefully not too close to others. I like my peace and quiet :D

Primarily I was planning single layer 60 x 20 x 20 for the whole house, but I might just reconsider the internal walls if it makes plumbing and electrics easier.

I might just be reading too much into the overall cost of things. If your shell could have been built for less than 1.3M, it certainly puts Team BoBs figure a lot closer than to what I thought it might have been.

Thanks.
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:33 pm

Hi eyecatcher,

Thanks for your input.

Most builders will look at your sketch and immediately smile and tell your 2 million baht; that's the price, that's what it should be, and that's what is here from your sketch.


I would certainly hope so and that is the whole reason for my consternation. I could not believe the price he gave me. :shock: :shock: Probably not often that anyone here can say that, but I genuinely thought he made a balls up. I thought it prudent to get other points of view before going back to Team BoB and potentially causing problems by questioning him too much.

I will do another mathematic assessment later tonight or tomorrow going on the info you have provided and see where that leads me. Probably to the nuthouse :D :D

and dont take this the wrong way but your admitted inexperience in building will leave you probably another 15% light in the estimated cost simply because there are jobs that are carried out that you will probably not think of


No chance of that :D :D As a self confessed mutant regarding building, I will add in 20% just to be on the safe side and all and any, advice, criticisms and a good old reality check, if needed, will be gratefully received.

The reason for starting this story so early is that I thought I might have had a drama right from the off. It now seems that perhaps not and Team BoB are bang on the money. No doubt that there will be drama's, trials and tribulations aplenty coming up.

Stay tuned and watch this space :D :D

Thanks
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby pipoz » Sat Oct 03, 2015 6:54 pm

Mai Mii wrote:Roger

Thanks for the reply and understood.

The price Team BoB gave me was inclusive of materials and labour. Less kitchen complete and bathroom fittings that I would supply for them to fit.

I understand that the actual house is very simple and straightforward, I like simple :D I was also brought up on the KISS it principle :wink:

I am also working on the principle that the cost will only ever go North, I would just rather know how far North it might potentially go before embarking on something that is going to kick me in the goollies. If Team Bob had came in higher, with a view to coming in underpriced, I could understand that logic. What I really do not want to happen is coming in low and the price moves North at a scale that I am not comfortable with. That is where my concern is at the moment.

These are the prices that I have estimated at the moment.

CPAC roof B 550,000
Q Con Blocks B 150,000
Other Q Con B 150,000
Windows B 350,000 Taken from Windsor website.
Electrics B 120,000
Labour Around 30 - 35% of total cost

These costs are close to what I was expecting, no real surprises there. No groundworks in there and this is perhaps where I am getting my knickers in a twist. I have no idea what these are or what they are likely to be near. So either I am really overestimating the cost of the groundworks, or the price I have been given is woefully short.

The footprint is about 300m2 in total, so if you or anyone who is a bit of a guru in this department could put a rough cost to the footings, rebar, concrete for this size of footprint would be fantastic. It may also need pilings But the additional costs of those would not be a deal breaker.

Cheers

MM


I have some detailed m2 Cost Build Ups - Estimates and Actual Quotations from Suppliers/Sub Contractors (also converted back to sq meter rates) for the following if you are interested. They are recent over the past 12 months

Concrete Structure Works: For Materials & Labour
Roof Framing, Insulation & Roof Tiles: For Materials & Labour
UPVC Windows & Doors: Materials & Labour
Electrical Works: Materials and Labour
Bathroom Ensuite Works: Materials & Labour

pipoz
User avatar
pipoz
 
Posts: 1910
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:41 pm
Location: Udon Thani Sometimes

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby BKKBILL » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:42 pm

I would think getting two other quotes by local builders using your plan would or could put your mind at rest. They should know what is required for footings etc.


Keeping everyone honest at a build start just makes sense.
It's not who you know, it's whom you know.
User avatar
BKKBILL
 
Posts: 2946
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Mae Taeng, Chiang Mai

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:57 pm

Eyecatcher,

Foundations
Ground floor slab
Ground floor to roof columns
roof structure and tiling
internal and external walls
external windows and doors
internal doors, joinery, staircases
plastering and rendering
electrical installation
plumbing installation
sanitary ware and bathroom fittings
wall and floor tiling
painting and decorating
kitchen
externals-drainage and pavings


This has been passed to Team BoB and they will come back with detailed costings. At 2000 B m2 for foundations makes it at least 50% cheaper than what I thought it would be. This would explain why I thought their price was on the low side.

Then you had me splitting my sides.

your roof looks like it would be simple enough so try to draw out the rafters, ceiling joists


As I have no idea what these look like, there is no chance of me drawing them :D :D
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Re: Chance Remark leads to New Build

Postby Mai Mii » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:06 pm

Pipoz,

I have some detailed m2 Cost Build Ups - Estimates and Actual Quotations from Suppliers/Sub Contractors (also converted back to sq meter rates) for the following if you are interested. They are recent over the past 12 months

Concrete Structure Works: For Materials & Labour
Roof Framing, Insulation & Roof Tiles: For Materials & Labour
UPVC Windows & Doors: Materials & Labour
Electrical Works: Materials and Labour
Bathroom Ensuite Works: Materials & Labour


Thanks for the offer and I will come back to you.

MM
Mai Mii
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 7:15 am

Next

Return to Your Building Story

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 0 guests