Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

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Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Stoace » Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:38 pm

Having promised the wife 2 years ago that I would build a house for us in 2016 I have finally started planning the project.

The first dilemma is as I still spend most of my time in the UK and she splits her time between Thailand and the UK how do we go about the project. There are a myriad of options some of which are:

A thai design and build company
A thai architect and local sub contractors
A UK architect, thai translation and local builder
The above but with a construction firm
Local architect, engineer, and builders

We can also go down the labour and materials builder route or labour only and buy the materials.

They all have their pro's and cons......but given I am in the UK and the wife does not have the experience or the attention to detail i do we are exploring the design and build option first.

The second challenge will be ensuring the design incorporates all the features I want it to to ensure it is as cool as possible without mechanical cooling whilst it looks as pretty as possible so the wife is happy.

I started the journey over the weekend spending a morning at Thai Watsadu and Udon Watsadu getting an idea of the cost of things and today have had a meeting with a design & build company.

The architect we met today has quoted 40,000bht to include a survey of the land, an engineer to survey the land because it is currently rice paddy and initial overall design ideas. The detailed design drawings will be 30,000bht more. This architect is independant from the building company but they use him exclusively and will cover his fee if we proceed to build with them. If we decide to use a different builder/s then we will have to pay his fee and site visits will be 2000bht each.

Thoughts welcome on the costs above as I personally think they are a tad on the high side!!!

On the subject of the build itself I have done a number of different layouts, unfortunately the U shape one around a swimming pool is out because the wife doesnt like "lots of roofs"

Latest design is below can't get into the icloud for the old designs yet, technology wonderful init!!

image.jpg
Latest layout



image.jpg
Front entrance


image.jpg
Pool and rear view


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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby pipoz » Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:37 pm

Stoace wrote:Having promised the wife 2 years ago that I would build a house for us in 2016 I have finally started planning the project.

The first dilemma is as I still spend most of my time in the UK and she splits her time between Thailand and the UK how do we go about the project. There are a myriad of options some of which are:

A thai design and build company
A thai architect and local sub contractors
A UK architect, thai translation and local builder
The above but with a construction firm
Local architect, engineer, and builders

I started the journey over the weekend spending a morning at Thai Watsadu and Udon Watsadu getting an idea of the cost of things and today have had a meeting with a design & build company.

The architect we met today has quoted 40,000bht to include a survey of the land, an engineer to survey the land because it is currently rice paddy and initial overall design ideas. The detailed design drawings will be 30,000bht more. This architect is independant from the building company but they use him exclusively and will cover his fee if we proceed to build with them. If we decide to use a different builder/s then we will have to pay his fee and site visits will be 2000bht each.

On the subject of the build itself I have done a number of different layouts, unfortunately the U shape one around a swimming pool is out because the wife doesnt like "lots of roofs"

Latest design is below can't get into the icloud for the old designs yet, technology wonderful init!!

image.jpg



image.jpg


image.jpg


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Hi Stoace,

Re If we decide to use a different builder/s then we will have to pay his fee and site visits will be 2000 bht each.

Just curious as to how long you expect the Architect to be on site for each visit and what you expect to get out of him (i.e. written report/ photographs pf progress and or quality issues etc) after each site visit for your TB 2,000

Also how many visits do you envisage per week or how many visits you have budgeted for over the course of the project construction

Re. "A Thai Design and Build Company". Trust me they (Thai Builders) are all D & B, its just a question of which part they design & build it their way and which part they read the actual drawing and build your way. Leave them alone for 5 minutes and it reverts straight to D & B. The Design as they Go and Build as they Know

Stand there and watch over them and you have a good chance of getting a Hybrid, ideally mostly your Design and twist of theirs. Even your Architect wont be able to stop them when they really want to revert to doing it their Thai way.

Regards

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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:14 pm

Stoace wrote:The architect we met today has quoted 40,000bht to include a survey of the land, an engineer to survey the land because it is currently rice paddy and initial overall design ideas. The detailed design drawings will be 30,000bht more. This architect is independant from the building company but they use him exclusively and will cover his fee if we proceed to build with them. If we decide to use a different builder/s then we will have to pay his fee and site visits will be 2000bht each.

Be very careful about the land, make sure it has been classified as "degraded" and unfit to grow rice on and that you get a full Chanote (title deed). Check with the local Or Bor Tor about the status of the land......the engineer there will be able to tell you straight away and he is the approving authority to start the build and approve the plans. If the builders are charging 2,000 baht to just visit the land beware, beware, beware. Make sure you get to visit a house they have built. and never pay them in advance or you'll never see them again.
They will want to build it their way, without even looking at the plans and be warned most of them don't know what the plans mean anyway, so they'll want to do it their way.
You have to be on site every day or they'll do it their way and cut corners.
Good luck with the architect being on site, unheard of in Thailand. As for visits rarely happens.
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:30 pm

Stoace wrote:Having promised the wife 2 years ago that I would build a house for us in 2016 I have finally started planning the project.

The first dilemma is as I still spend most of my time in the UK and she splits her time between Thailand and the UK how do we go about the project. There are a myriad of options some of which are:

A thai design and build company
A thai architect and local sub contractors
A UK architect, thai translation and local builder
The above but with a construction firm
Local architect, engineer, and builders

We can also go down the labour and materials builder route or labour only and buy the materials.

They all have their pro's and cons......but given I am in the UK and the wife does not have the experience or the attention to detail i do we are exploring the design and build option first.


I started the journey over the weekend spending a morning at Thai Watsadu and Udon Watsadu getting an idea of the cost of things and today have had a meeting with a design & build company.

The architect we met today has quoted 40,000bht to include a survey of the land, an engineer to survey the land because it is currently rice paddy and initial overall design ideas. The detailed design drawings will be 30,000bht more. This architect is independant from the building company but they use him exclusively and will cover his fee if we proceed to build with them. If we decide to use a different builder/s then we will have to pay his fee and site visits will be 2000bht each.

Thoughts welcome on the costs above as I personally think they are a tad on the high side!!!

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I hope you mean Ubon Watsadu which is usually known as Do-Home :)

The survey cost seems quite high and I don't understand why you need a survey, what are they going to tell you? We just had a soil bearing test done that cost 12,000 baht, no survey done or suggested by our architect.

The design fee is probably, ours was a bit more.

If you want a good house one of you will need to become a building expert.
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby eyecatcher » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:52 pm

Welcome to the storyboard:
With regards to the survey; I would say they are worth every baht if the surveyor finds a problem that means you are going to pull out of the deal.
Not really sure what a Thai land survey would entail but when I used to do land surveys and recces prior to deciding on buying a plot, it would be necessary to measure the plot. Mark on boundaries. Record any drain lines crossing the site; electric cables, overhead cables. Where is the nearest water supply, where is the nearest telephone supply. Are there any public footpaths, rights of way. Is there a filled pond, is the ground rock; can you drain the property or need a pump into a sewer. Who are the neighbours, residential or commercial, do you need to fill the ground or excavate down? Are the authorities going to upgrade a major highway nearby, is it subject to a CPO
All those things you need to be aware of when designing a propertie(s) on a plot. Granted, a plot in an already developed area isn’t going to have the same concerns as a plot that was once a paddy field but you should do some checking.
And the best thing is, you can do most of that recce survey yourself, though the architect should do the “chaining” if he calls himself an architect.

If you don’t have much building background experience I would say organizing a build as labour and materials will be difficult bordering on being sectioned!. You really do need construction knowledge just to know what to order and you have to build every detail in your head first.

If you don’t have the experience, or don’t have the time or inclination then perhaps better to have a builder with a project manager or architect overseeing the work and coordinating it for you.

If you read our tales of woe, I mean for those of us with the knowledge who thought it might be a breeze, believe me you will need all the help available.
I look forward to your story.
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:47 am

Reasons for a land survey in Thailand:
1. To make sure the boundary pegs have noy been moved by the neighbour.
2. If done by Land Department it's far cheaper, more accurate and they will put in boundary markers.
If it's not a full Chanote then they will also advise on that as well.
3. Land survey is required by both the Or Bor Tor and Land Department before final sale.
4. if the land requires piles, it's a must to place the piles accurately.
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:14 am

Stoace wrote:Having promised the wife 2 years ago that I would build a house for us in 2016 I have finally started planning the project.

PM sent
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:29 am

Humm I should have been more clear.
For rice paddy land I don't see a need for a private survey. Unless it will include a soil bearing test. Or the boundary markers are not clear

The land office will survey when there is a change in the land deed, (They will not accept a private survey, cost is less than ฿5,000) either a subdivision or change from one kind to another ie. Nor Sor 3 Gor to Chanote. You can get the land office to resurvey for a fee (if you want to jump the queue then you may be able to do that for some "Tea money")

Depending on how far you are from town the OrBorTor may have no interest or involvement in your build, ours does not. Ask your neighbours, if they didn't need to submit plans then you don't, if you don't know then ask the OrBorTor. Most houses built around us don't have real plans. GrandMums house was drawn on the back of an envelope :)
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Stoace » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:24 am

I'll try to answer as much of the queries or points made to date as i can.

The architect visit is a flat fee however long they stay for, if i use the D&B company they will project manage, if i use local builders then i would ensure they come with specific tasks such as checking the layout of columns before concreting etc.

The dilemma i have is I will have to leave my wife and father-in-law in charge of the build as i cant spend months away from my business to oversee daily although i will be making regular trips.

We already have full chanote for the land (actually we have 3 which cover the full 5 rai), boundary pegs are in and correct and we have fenced around it where there is dry land.

The company we met is Sanmanoch & Hoffman, interested to know if anyone has any experience of them? On projects i have done in the uk I have designed with an architect, budget costed with a QS then revised the design and spec to fit the budget. Over here i get the distinct feeling they will design the house to fit the budget i have including no doubt a high % of profit for them!! We are off to see examples of their work tomorrow....

Yes I meant Do Home [THUMBS UP SIGN]

The survey would enable the land to be put onto CAD and the engineer survey will be needed for the structural calcs.

The wife assures me as we are well into the sticks we can do what we want and as the family has built several buildings for various uses i tend to agree with her although it will be interesting to see what is said today when we meet an architect/engineer from the local government office!

A builder with an architect as project manager is my first choice 1. Because i cant be around 2. My family are builders and i have a pretty good basic knowledge but dont have the time or experience to make detailed design decisions 3. My wife is not going to be able to manage the build either. There are pros and cons to having the architect tied to the builder on the plus side they will work as a team on the downside they will probably prioritise the builder over the client when push comes to shove if there are s a problem!!


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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby pipoz » Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:07 am

Stoace wrote:I'll try to answer as much of the queries or points made to date as i can.

The architect visit is a flat fee however long they stay for, if i use the D&B company they will project manage, if i use local builders then i would ensure they come with specific tasks such as checking the layout of columns before concreting etc.

The dilemma i have is I will have to leave my wife and father-in-law in charge of the build as i cant spend months away from my business to oversee daily although i will be making regular trips.

We already have full chanote for the land (actually we have 3 which cover the full 5 rai), boundary pegs are in and correct and we have fenced around it where there is dry land.

The company we met is Sanmanoch & Hoffman, interested to know if anyone has any experience of them? On projects i have done in the uk I have designed with an architect, budget costed with a QS then revised the design and spec to fit the budget. Over here i get the distinct feeling they will design the house to fit the budget i have including no doubt a high % of profit for them!! We are off to see examples of their work tomorrow....

Yes I meant Do Home [THUMBS UP SIGN]

The survey would enable the land to be put onto CAD and the engineer survey will be needed for the structural calcs.

The wife assures me as we are well into the sticks we can do what we want and as the family has built several buildings for various uses i tend to agree with her although it will be interesting to see what is said today when we meet an architect/engineer from the local government office!

A builder with an architect as project manager is my first choice 1. Because i cant be around 2. My family are builders and i have a pretty good basic knowledge but dont have the time or experience to make detailed design decisions 3. My wife is not going to be able to manage the build either. There are pros and cons to having the architect tied to the builder on the plus side they will work as a team on the downside they will probably prioritise the builder over the client when push comes to shove if there are s a problem!!


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You may have found a good Builder. I looked at their (Sanmanoch & Hoffman), which indicates a plus. A lot of AutoCad pictures but not many of actual houses under construction. I see one of a commercial building

I would be interested in what their past work quality looks like on residential. Try and have a look at one of their places around two years old

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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Stoace » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:25 pm

Quick update on progress.

I have visited a 3 year old house they built in khon kaen and the finishes look good and it looks well built. I am still not sure they can implement everything i want, or do the design/cost process to ensure i get the maximum space for the budget and there fee's are clearly twice what others have paid for this type of company.

Yesterday we met an architect from the local government office which is at the other end of the scale! He viewed the land listened to the ideas / design features i want to incorporate and said that he can build for ballpark 12,000bht per sq m. The first thing i need to clarify is what extent of foundations will we need given the land is currently rice and wanting to build next year means we dont have time for infill to settle. My wife has spoken to the architects partner who is the engineer he has spoken well with her and she is confident in them as a team.

Our local team have given a price of 20,000 to do a 3 hole geological survey to check the foundations question. The design and build people have quoted 10,000 for a land survey which would include the engineer advising on the depth of foundations but not needing to use a drilling rig for samples. So now slightly confused as to how to progress. Thoughts anyone?

Image
This is the land i want to build on

Image
This is the road entrance the house would be around 150m back from the road

Image
This is the house the design and build crew built in khon kaen




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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:24 pm

Stoace wrote:Yesterday we met an architect from the local government office which is at the other end of the scale! He viewed the land listened to the ideas / design features i want to incorporate and said that he can build for ballpark 12,000bht per sq m. The first thing i need to clarify is what extent of foundations will we need given the land is currently rice and wanting to build next year means we dont have time for infill to settle. My wife has spoken to the architects partner who is the engineer he has spoken well with her and she is confident in them as a team.

Our local team have given a price of 20,000 to do a 3 hole geological survey to check the foundations question. The design and build people have quoted 10,000 for a land survey which would include the engineer advising on the depth of foundations but not needing to use a drilling rig for samples. So now slightly confused as to how to progress. Thoughts anyone?



Firstly the land infill doesn't need to settle first as a lot of it will be dug up again anyway.
Secondly the Or Bor Tor Engineer (who has to approve the plans anyway) can tell you the exact depth the piles and footings will have to go down by looking at the plans. It's only a rough estimate anyway, I put in 51 piles that ranged from over 16-32 metres in the space of 33 X 11 metres. I went for bore piles because I had a neighbour and the house is a large 2 storied affair with indoor swimming pool, you should be able to use driven piles which are 1/3 rd the cost, but the Or Bor Tor engineer will be able to give you exact advise. The bore pile company I used did the survey so they could get the piles exact. If you start here you can see and read what it all entailed: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1864&start=255
Good luck.
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:52 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:
Firstly the land infill doesn't need to settle first as a lot of it will be dug up again anyway.
Secondly the Or Bor Tor Engineer (who has to approve the plans anyway) can tell you the exact depth the piles and footings will have to go down by looking at the plans. It's only a rough estimate anyway, I put in 51 piles that ranged from over 16-32 metres in the space of 33 X 11 metres. I went for bore piles because I had a neighbour and the house is a large 2 storied affair with indoor swimming pool, you should be able to use driven piles which are 1/3 rd the cost, but the Or Bor Tor engineer will be able to give you exact advise. The bore pile company I used did the survey so they could get the piles exact. If you start here you can see and read what it all entailed: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1864&start=255
Good luck.

The Or Bor Tor Engineer does not need to approve the plans due to the distance from town. As they are not involved with house building in that area they may not have detailed information. If the land has the same makeup as ours has then piles will not be needed.
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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby pipoz » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:36 pm

Stoace wrote:Quick update on progress.

I have visited a 3 year old house they built in khon kaen and the finishes look good and it looks well built. I am still not sure they can implement everything i want, or do the design/cost process to ensure i get the maximum space for the budget and there fee's are clearly twice what others have paid for this type of company.

Image
This is the land i want to build on

Image
This is the road entrance the house would be around 150m back from the road

Image
This is the house the design and build crew built in khon kaen

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Nice green view, do have any houses close buy and has the landed ever flood. By that, I mean, has the land been under 300 - 500 mm of rain/river water for any length if time

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Re: Ban Phai, Khon Kaen Eco ish House Project

Postby Stoace » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:29 am

Yeah an aunty's house is near the road to the right of us and has no problems, the ground drains very quickly around us as long as we are up to the right ground level not down in the rice field.


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