Thai corruption .............

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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby MGV12 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:00 am

Maybe we should put this in perspective ... assuming the research is not corrupt:

Corruption index 2011 from Transparency International: find out how countries compare


Which country is most corrupt? North Korea is now officially considered the world's most corrupt country, along with Somalia. But why has the US gone up one place and the UK's score improved? See how the annual corruption index has changed

Corruption around the world remains a deeply entrenched, global concern according to Transparency International's 2011 Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) - the world's most credible measure of of domestic, public sector corruption.

This year, two thirds of countries covered by the index were given scores less than 5 - which means they are considered significantly corrupt.

The CPI scores countries on a scale of zero to 10, with zero indicating high levels of corruption and 10, low levels. And the most corrupt places in the world are not the most surprising. Unstable governments, often with a legacy of conflict, continue to dominate the bottom rungs of the CPI. Afghanistan and Myanmar share second to last place with a score of 1.5, with Somalia and North Korea - measured for the first time - coming in last with a score of 1.

The world's most peaceful countries score the best. In the 2011 CPI, New Zealand is top with a score of 9.5, followed by Denmark, Finland, Sweden and Singapore.

Four countries and territories besides North Korea are included for the first time: the Bahamas, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, and Suriname.

Transparency International (TI) chair Huguette Labelle says corruption remains a major global issue, highlighted by widespread demonstrations in 2011: "This year we have seen corruption on protestor's banners be they rich or poor. Whether in a Europe hit by debt crisis or an Arab world starting a new political era, leaders must head the demands for better government."

Wealth seems no easy antidote to corruption: some relatively rich countries, including Russia, fall at the bottom of the global league table. Meanwhile, some of the world's poorer states do comparatively well: Botswana, Bhutan, Cape Verde, and Rwanda all appear among the 50 "cleanest" countries.

While the index has been published annually since 1995, TI warns against comparing scores over time, as sources for the index change each year. However, the Berlin-based NGO notes that two general trends pop out regardless: Arab Spring countries, and many Eurozone countries – particularly those affected by the financial crisis – are doing worse and worse.

Most Arab Spring countries rank in the lower half of the index, with scores below 4. Many of the lowest-scoring European countries are those hardest hit by the financial and debt crises – including Greece and Italy.

The UK ranks 16th, along with Austria and the Barbados, and just ahead of Belgium and Ireland. The US ranks 24th.

The Index, which is closely watched by investors, economists, and civil society campaigners, is based on expert assessments and data from 17 surveys from 13 independent institutions, covering issues such as access to information, bribery of public officials, kickbacks in public procurement, and the enforcement of anti-corruption laws. While critics note that measuring perceptions of corruption is not the same as measuring corruption itself, the latter is almost impossible to do - as the corrupt are usually keen to cover up their tracks, hard data on graft and bribery is notoriously difficult to come by.

We've got the full data below. What can you do with it?

Transparency international world corruption index (1=most corrupt)

CPI 2011 Score

CPI 2010 Score

CPI 2009 Score

CPI 2008 Score

SOURCE: Transparency International
1 New Zealand 9.5 9.3 9.4 9.3
2 Denmark 9.4 9.3 9.3 9.3
2 Finland 9.4 9.2 8.9 9
4 Sweden 9.3 9.2 9.2 9.3
5 Singapore 9.2 9.3 9.2 9.2
6 Norway 9.0 8.6 8.6 7.9
7 Netherlands 8.9 8.8 8.9 8.9
8 Switzerland 8.8 8.7 9 9
8 Australia 8.8 8.7 8.7 8.7
10 Canada 8.7 8.9 8.7 8.7
11 Luxembourg 8.5 8.5 8.2 8.3
12 Hong Kong 8.4 8.4 8.2 8.1
13 Iceland 8.3 8.5 8.7 8.9
14 Germany 8.0 7.9 8 7.9
14 Japan 8.0 7.8 7.7 7.3
16 Austria 7.8 7.9 7.9 8.1
16 Barbados 7.8 7.8 7.4 7
16 United Kingdom 7.8 7.6 7.7 7.7
19 Ireland 7.5 8 8 7.7
19 Belgium 7.5 7.1 7.1 7.3
21 Bahamas 7.3
22 Qatar 7.2 7.7 7 6.5
22 Chile 7.2 7.2 6.7 6.9
24 United States 7.1 7.1 7.5 7.3
25 Uruguay 7.0 6.9 6.7 6.9
25 France 7.0 6.8 6.9 6.9
25 Saint Lucia 7.0
28 United Arab Emirates 6.8 6.3 6.5 5.9
29 Estonia 6.4 6.5 6.6 6.6
30 Cyprus 6.3 6.3 6.6 6.4
31 Spain 6.2 6.1 6.1 6.5
32 Portugal 6.1 6 5.8 6.1
32 Botswana 6.1 5.8 5.6 5.8
32 Taiwan 6.1 5.8 5.6 5.7
35 Slovenia 5.9 6.4 6.6 6.7
36 Israel 5.8 6.1 6.1 6
36 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 5.8
38 Bhutan 5.7 5.7 5 5.2
39 Puerto Rico 5.6 5.8 5.8 5.8
39 Malta 5.6 5.6 5.2 5.8
41 Poland 5.5 5.3 5 4.6
41 Cape Verde 5.5 5.1 5.1 5.1
43 Korea (South) 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.6
44 Brunei 5.2 5.5 5.5 0
44 Dominica 5.2 5.2 5.9 6
46 Mauritius 5.1 5.4 5.4 5.5
46 Macau 5.1 5 5.3 5.4
46 Bahrain 5.1 4.9 5.1 5.4
49 Rwanda 5.0 4 3.3 3
50 Costa Rica 4.8 5.3 5.3 5.1
50 Oman 4.8 5.3 5.5 5.5
50 Lithuania 4.8 5 4.9 4.6
50 Seychelles 4.8 4.8 4.8 4.8
54 Hungary 4.6 4.7 5.1 5.1
54 Kuwait 4.6 4.5 4.1 4.3
56 Jordan 4.5 4.7 5 5.1
57 Saudi Arabia 4.4 4.7 4.3 3.5
57 Czech Republic 4.4 4.6 4.9 5.2
57 Namibia 4.4 4.4 4.5 4.5
60 Malaysia 4.3 4.4 4.5 5.1
61 Turkey 4.2 4.4 4.4 4.6
61 Latvia 4.2 4.3 4.5 5
61 Cuba 4.2 3.7 4.4 4.3
64 South Africa 4.1 4.5 4.7 4.9
64 Georgia 4.1 3.8 4.1 3.9
66 Slovakia 4.0 4.3 4.5 5
66 Croatia 4.0 4.1 4.1 4.4
66 Montenegro 4.0 3.7 3.9 3.4
69 Ghana 3.9 4.1 3.9 3.9
69 Samoa 3.9 4.1 4.5 4.4
69 Macedonia, FYR 3.9 4.1 3.8 3.6
69 Italy 3.9 3.9 4.3 4.8
73 Tunisia 3.8 4.3 4.2 4.4
73 Brazil 3.8 3.7 3.7 3.5
75 Romania 3.6 3.7 3.8 3.8
75 China 3.6 3.5 3.6 3.6
77 Vanuatu 3.5 3.6 3.2 2.9
77 Lesotho 3.5 3.5 3.3 3.2
77 Gambia 3.5 3.2 2.9 1.9
80 El Salvador 3.4 3.6 3.4 3.9
80 Thailand 3.4 3.5 3.4 3.5
80 Peru 3.4 3.5 3.7 3.6
80 Greece 3.4 3.5 3.8 4.7
80 Colombia 3.4 3.5 3.7 3.8
80 Morocco 3.4 3.4 3.3 3.5
86 Panama 3.3 3.6 3.4 3.4
86 Bulgaria 3.3 3.6 3.8 3.6
86 Serbia 3.3 3.5 3.5 3.4
86 Jamaica 3.3 3.3 3 3.1
86 Sri Lanka 3.3 3.2 3.1 3.2
91 Trinidad and Tobago 3.2 3.6 3.6 3.6
91 Liberia 3.2 3.3 3.1 2.4
91 Bosnia and Herzegovina 3.2 3.2 3 3.2
91 Zambia 3.2 3 3 2.8
95 Albania 3.1 3.3 3.2 3.4
95 India 3.1 3.3 3.4 3.4
95 Kiribati 3.1 3.2 2.8 3.1
95 Swaziland 3.1 3.2 3.6 3.6
95 Tonga 3.1 3 3 2.4
100 Malawi 3.0 3.4 3.3 2.8
100 Djibouti 3.0 3.2 2.8 3
100 Mexico 3.0 3.1 3.3 3.6
100 Burkina Faso 3.0 3.1 3.6 3.5
100 Sao Tome & Principe 3.0 3 2.8 2.7
100 Argentina 3.0 2.9 2.9 2.9
100 Benin 3.0 2.8 2.9 3.1
100 Gabon 3.0 2.8 2.9 3.1
100 Indonesia 3.0 2.8 2.8 2.6
100 Tanzania 3.0 2.7 2.6 3
100 Madagascar 3.0 2.6 3 3.4
100 Suriname 3.0
112 Egypt 2.9 3.1 2.8 2.8
112 Senegal 2.9 2.9 3 3.4
112 Moldova 2.9 2.9 3.3 2.9
112 Algeria 2.9 2.9 2.8 3.2
112 Kosovo 2.9 2.8 0 0
112 Vietnam 2.9 2.7 2.7 2.7
118 Bolivia 2.8 2.8 2.7 3
118 Mali 2.8 2.7 2.8 3.1
120 Guatemala 2.7 3.2 3.4 3.1
120 Kazakhstan 2.7 2.9 2.7 2.2
120 Solomon Islands 2.7 2.8 2.8 2.9
120 Mongolia 2.7 2.7 2.7 3
120 Mozambique 2.7 2.7 2.5 2.6
120 Ethiopia 2.7 2.7 2.7 2.6
120 Ecuador 2.7 2.5 2.2 2
120 Bangladesh 2.7 2.4 2.4 2.1
120 Iran 2.7 2.2 1.8 2.3
129 Dominican Republic 2.6 3 3 3
129 Armenia 2.6 2.6 2.7 2.9
129 Syria 2.6 2.5 2.6 2.1
129 Honduras 2.6 2.4 2.5 2.6
129 Philippines 2.6 2.4 2.4 2.3
134 Guyana 2.5 2.7 2.6 2.6
134 Eritrea 2.5 2.6 2.6 2.6
134 Niger 2.5 2.6 2.9 2.8
134 Lebanon 2.5 2.5 2.5 3
134 Nicaragua 2.5 2.5 2.5 2.5
134 Sierra Leone 2.5 2.4 2.2 1.9
134 Pakistan 2.5 2.3 2.4 2.5
134 Maldives 2.5 2.3 2.5 2.8
134 Cameroon 2.5 2.2 2.2 2.3
143 Timor-Leste 2.4 2.5 2.2 2.2
143 Belarus 2.4 2.5 2.4 2
143 Uganda 2.4 2.5 2.5 2.6
143 Azerbaijan 2.4 2.4 2.3 1.9
143 Togo 2.4 2.4 2.8 2.7
143 Nigeria 2.4 2.4 2.5 2.7
143 Mauritania 2.4 2.3 2.5 2.8
143 Comoros 2.4 2.1 2.3 2.5
143 Russia 2.4 2.1 2.2 2.1
152 Ukraine 2.3 2.4 2.2 2.5
152 Tajikistan 2.3 2.1 2 2
154 Zimbabwe 2.2 2.4 2.2 1.8
154 Nepal 2.2 2.2 2.3 2.7
154 Paraguay 2.2 2.2 2.1 2.4
154 Côte d´Ivoire 2.2 2.2 2.1 2
154 Congo Republic 2.2 2.1 1.9 1.9
154 Papua New Guinea 2.2 2.1 2.1 2
154 Guinea-Bissau 2.2 2.1 1.9 1.9
154 Central African Republic 2.2 2.1 2 2
154 Laos 2.2 2.1 2 2
154 Kenya 2.2 2.1 2.2 2.1
164 Yemen 2.1 2.2 2.1 2.3
164 Cambodia 2.1 2.1 2 1.8
164 Guinea 2.1 2 1.8 1.6
164 Kyrgyzstan 2.1 2 1.9 1.8
168 Libya 2.0 2.2 2.5 2.6
168 Congo, Dem Rep 2.0 2 1.9 1.7
168 Angola 2.0 1.9 1.9 1.9
168 Chad 2.0 1.7 1.6 1.6
172 Venezuela 1.9 2 1.9 1.9
172 Equatorial Guinea 1.9 1.9 1.8 1.7
172 Burundi 1.9 1.8 1.8 1.9
175 Haiti 1.8 2.2 1.8 1.4
175 Iraq 1.8 1.5 1.5 1.3
177 Sudan 1.6 1.6 1.5 1.6
177 Turkmenistan 1.6 1.6 1.8 1.8
177 Uzbekistan 1.6 1.6 1.7 1.8
180 Myanmar 1.5 1.4 1.4 1.3
180 Afghanistan 1.5 1.4 1.3 1.5
182 Somalia 1.0 1.1 1.1 1
182 Korea (North) 1.0

Footnote: I took the liberty of changing the header to 1= least corrupt from 1= most corrupt :roll:

Even reliable data may not be that reliable these days. Interesting that Germany is only 14th on the list .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/dec/01/corruption-index-2011-transparency-international

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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby sirineou » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:10 pm

Statistics have a way of being manipulate, both intentionally or unintentionally, I mean it is not like you go to a country and you go the the corruption room at the census Ministry and look at the corruption Gage. These are statistics, that are based on other statistics, which themselves are based on statistics. and every step of the way there is room for error, especially on a subject such as corruption where the gathering of statistics is also affected by corruption.
A sure way to test the validity of statistics is to see whether or not they agree with my position, if they do they are most certainly correct, :lol: if they don't ....
In this case the statistics seem to agree with my thinking.so they must be correct.
For instance, let's take Singapore, what is the difference between Singapore and Thailand? or take Russia, is wealth the only factor in the level of corruption? or is it a combination of several factors such as , The distribution of wealth, fair laws that give everyone equal opportunity to participate, and strong enforcement to deter those who do not want to play by the rules.
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby fredlk » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:17 pm

sirineou wrote:what is the difference between Singapore and Thailand?

I hope that's a rhetorical question.
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby sirineou » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:56 pm

fredlk wrote:
sirineou wrote:what is the difference between Singapore and Thailand?

I hope that's a rhetorical question.

It is a rhetorical question that sets up the rest of the sentence and supports my conclusion.
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby MGV12 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:47 pm

sirineou wrote:Statistics have a way of being manipulate, both intentionally or unintentionally, I mean it is not like you go to a country and you go the the corruption room at the census Ministry and look at the corruption Gage. These are statistics, that are based on other statistics, which themselves are based on statistics. and every step of the way there is room for error, especially on a subject such as corruption where the gathering of statistics is also affected by corruption.


Transparency International appear to be a credible organisation and have some serious donors looking over their shoulder http://www.transparency.org/whoweare/accountability

However, even if we exclude them being corrupt themselves they are of course only as good as the information they are able to obtain. I held a senior position in a multinational company for some years that relied heavily on statistics for it's sector-leading success. I know from relevant experience that stats can be used [and abused] in many ways to tell differing and sometimes conflicting stories.

The fact that North Korea is at the bottom of the list is no surprise ... but you would probably place them there without any stats being available.

I would however question that Zimbabwe and Nigeria aren't down there with them .... Zimbabwe is rated as less corrupt than Nepal!

The listing was provided for entertainment value as much as anything. Some of the positions are 'interesting' and them placing Australia and Canada above the UK and WAY above the US has got to indicate they are off the mark; and most likely the reason you challenged their findings. :lol: .

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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby sirineou » Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:40 pm

MGV12 wrote: and most likely the reason you challenged their findings. :lol: .
[/quote]
Yea yea, let's go with that
It has nothing to do with me being an obnoxious, argumentative ass what so ever :roll:
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby MGV12 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:17 pm

sirineou wrote:
MGV12 wrote: and most likely the reason you challenged their findings. :lol: .

Yea yea, let's go with that
It has nothing to do with me being an obnoxious, argumentative ass what so ever :roll:


Glad we sorted that out ... what a lovely polite thread this has become. Let's hope nobody corrupts it. :P

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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby payebacs » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:43 pm

MGV12 wrote:Footnote: I took the liberty of changing the header to 1= least corrupt from 1= most corrupt :roll:
Even reliable data may not be that reliable these days. Interesting that Germany is only 14th on the list .

Number 1 in the list is least corrupt while with a score of 1 North Korea is most corrupt so hence the header I think there. In fact a score of zero is most corrupt but perfection is rare. I think corruption in it's most true sense is when those who partake in it do so 'illegally' and behind closed doors 'hidden from view' knowingly criminal whereas within a system corrupt in itself where bribes are offered over and not under the table I'd say most of any such systems partakers all sleep perfectly well at night!
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby MGV12 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:29 pm

payebacs wrote:
MGV12 wrote:Footnote: I took the liberty of changing the header to 1= least corrupt from 1= most corrupt :roll:
Even reliable data may not be that reliable these days. Interesting that Germany is only 14th on the list .

Number 1 in the list is least corrupt while with a score of 1 North Korea is most corrupt so hence the header I think there. In fact a score of zero is most corrupt but perfection is rare. I think corruption in it's most true sense is when those who partake in it do so 'illegally' and behind closed doors 'hidden from view' knowingly criminal whereas within a system corrupt in itself where bribes are offered over and not under the table I'd say most of any such systems partakers all sleep perfectly well at night!


You and I know what they meant ..... simply attempting to remove ambiguity for those whose first language might not be English.

I, along with every other person living on this planet, am guilty of encouraging corruption by knowingly or unknowingly being involved in the cycle.

I so wish it were different but whether it's overt of covert it's still unfortunately there ... indeed rife in the society we choose to live in; and by choice is where I will remain as there are swings and there are roundabouts.

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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby sirineou » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:08 pm

I never engage in corruption!! I simply tweak the system :D
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby MGV12 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:27 pm

sirineou wrote:I never engage in corruption!! I simply tweak the system :D



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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby sirineou » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:23 pm

I think this song is more apropos in my case :D
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby MGV12 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:34 am

sirineou wrote:I think this song is more apropos in my case :D


My momma always said ... "sitting in soggy places will give you rheumatism in your butt!"

Funny movie.

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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby payebacs » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:04 am

I think lawyers and judges should know of the non corrupt process to follow better than the next man and if they do yet still do not act in accordance with this are the ones who should score most highly on the corruption register and that this on a broader scale should extend nation vs nation through the list too.
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Re: Thai corruption .............

Postby MGV12 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:07 am

payebacs wrote:I think lawyers and judges should know of the non corrupt process to follow better than the next man and if they do yet still do not act in accordance with this are the ones who should score most highly on the corruption register and that this on a broader scale should extend nation vs nation through the list too.


Lawyers and Judges are party to one of the most corrupt regimes on the planet. It matters not who is in the right or in the wrong .... merely the capability of those who put the story put before the court and the interpretation placed on that by the judge; and/or jury.

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