insulating the ceiling from underneath?

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insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby cooked » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:14 pm

Probably a silly question.
I can't abide the ceilings that you see everywhere in Thailand - an aluminium frame with metal squares fitted in from above. Bits of organic gunk begin to appear between the joins and if you try to lift the squares to clean you get showered with more bits of gunk. The aluminium also changes colour with time. I thought about finding a better quality of Sagex - expanded Polystyrene in English I think - to glue to the ceiling from beneath, painting it over afterwards. About 8 cm I thought. Would this be an effective solution to the fact that the roof space is not insulated and is difficult to get at?
I have been told by Thais that: mice will get into it, it is against building regulations as it burns easily. Maybe a composite panel?
And of course, where can I buy it?

Thanks for any advice
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:38 pm

cooked,
It is far simpler and less expensive to have ceiling people come in and remove the old ceiling and then gyprock the whole things so you have no seems. Any shop that sells the ceiling gypsum will know of someone who can do it and at the same time you can have a reflective barrier installed.
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby geordie » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:38 pm

cooked wrote: I have been told by Thais that: mice will get into it, it is against building regulations as it burns easily. Maybe a composite panel?


Thanks for any advice


RR has suggested the simplest solution a new gyproc ceiling with fiberglass or similar insulation above it The Thais do seem to make a nice job with ceilings

What i am trying to figure out is how the mice would fare on the underside of a ceiling and where did you come across building regs in thailand ??

A freind of mine in spain used 4" polystyrene as a base for a concrete floor
So he has corugated metal sheets with polystyrene boards then concrete ! rats got into that and he is still having problems getting rid of them they tunnel the hell out of it and pop up under the showers and anywhere else he has broken the slab for services not something you would chose to live with
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby cooked » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:10 am

Thanks for your responses. Mentioning what the Thai building suppliers thought about my enquiries wasn't to be taken seriously, they didn't have any in stock so they tried to sell me something else. I can't take out the ceiling as it is because the wife's family did it as a present in my absence. (They also put in PINK tiles the last time I was away, because they were cheap. I can't STAND pink!) I was wondering if glueing sagex to the ceiling would be of any use? I would have a roof space that was insulated and any heat coming through the metal squares should be slowed down by the sagex? I can see myself taking the metal roof off and putting insulation in on top of the ceiling but this would be quite a job.
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby geordie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:16 am

cooked wrote:Thanks for your responses. Mentioning what the Thai building suppliers thought about my enquiries wasn't to be taken seriously, they didn't have any in stock so they tried to sell me something else. I can't take out the ceiling as it is because the wife's family did it as a present in my absence. (They also put in PINK tiles the last time I was away, because they were cheap. I can't STAND pink!) I was wondering if glueing sagex to the ceiling would be of any use? I would have a roof space that was insulated and any heat coming through the metal squares should be slowed down by the sagex? I can see myself taking the metal roof off and putting insulation in on top of the ceiling but this would be quite a job.


Maybe to spare hurt feelings you could arrange a price per meter quote for replacement of the ceilings and if acceptable you strip the ceiling yourself to install insulation Of course you being incompetent will accidentally break a lot of the tiles (not dificult) maybe a bit of vertigo where you use the ceiling grid for balance bending it beyond repair this will leave you in a position that its better to get a proffesional in to finish the job given the option of removing the roof or removing the ceiling !! the ceiling is the easier to do if it were just a case of insulation you can put it on the tiles (fiberglass) but if you hate them to the extent you want them gone you could do a lousy paint job apologise for srewing up the ceiling then replace it completely

Take a look at a couple of the members ceilings at what can be done with stepped ceilings or just plain and smooth ? and almost as quick as the tiles definately better in appearance maybe someone will put a link for you to see the detail
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby payebacs » Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:18 am

geordie wrote:maybe a bit of vertigo where you use the ceiling grid for balance bending it beyond repair

The idea doesn't startle. What startles is that the above said member thought of it so quickly. on the very same day of your post.! :lol:
Could work tho, and if you forget were you heard it cos conspiracy's probably worse, it's not a crime as such, even tho they did do the orange tiles for you.
Cooked, don't take my opinion for much, I'm a novice at best, how about tho individually wrapping the current tiles in insulation foil, the foil facing upwards, anchored around the edges by their lay on the frame. so you'd cut the foil just larger than the top surface of each tile?
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:56 am

cooked,
In the still of the night with a pair of pliers, cut the tie wire holding up the ceiling in strategic places (just one or two a night), the ceiling will look a disaster after the first week and your better half will beg you to have it fixed.... that's when you strike and get the new ceiling.
I can loan you a rather large rebar cutter that will break tiles you don't like each and every time you drop it. I bought it to make things simple for the Thai builder, but the Thai workers claimed it was too hard/heavy to use (it worked fine for me), so I'll loan it to you and then you can just claim to be careless.
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby geordie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:41 am

Paybacs there are a couple of good discusions on the use of the foil but in a nutshell its a radiant barrier as oposed to insulation :mrgreen:

It actually works best in proximity to the roof its purpose is twofold it reduces heat being transmitted through the roof from being radiated into the loft as in the roof gets hot that heat is then "radiated"" the foil by laying it reflective side down works on the principle a polished surface does not radiate very well by laying the foil close to the tile,s or roof material it stops some of the heat build up in the roofspace also it creates by the nature of ""heat rises"" a natural tendency to pull the hot air between the tiles and the foil upwards towards the ridge which should be vented so if you have vented the soffits and the ridge you should by means of convection have a nice flow of air up the inside of the roof making it cooler :roll: :roll: simple eh ??

RR you are as dodgy as me :lol: :lol: :lol: come with married life i reckon
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby cooked » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:23 am

Goodness gracious, you guys are DEVIOUS. I feel at home on this forum already.
I take it, you don't find the idea of gluing expanded polystyrene to the underside of the ceiling a good idea? I thought it was quite good.
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby pattayapope » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:03 pm

Remember that fire a couple of years ago at a disco, I think expanded polystrene had a big part to play in it, maybe just paint it white will help. If you want insulation I am sure your could install rolls above it by removing selected panels but without knowing the above ceiling supporting structure hard to be sure.
Pink definately not one of my favourite colours either, remeinds me of Hello Kitty merchanise[*] :roll:
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby payebacs » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:18 pm

pattayapope wrote:maybe just paint it white will help.
Out of a preference for the colour or for it's more reflective properties? :)
geordie wrote:a radiant barrier
Okay, I had thought the foil would reflect heat upwards regardless of it’s proximity to the roof but even were it to do so yes, no chunneled flow of hot air rising would occur as per your example between roof and foil like a narrow chimney up to a vent. My way would simply make an oven in the roof and a not particularly well insulated one afterall. So I stand corrected. I think Geordie was suggesting fibreglass for it’s incompatibility with rats over polystyrene Cooked but if the polystyrene were to be underneath the ceiling as I understand it perhaps he would reconsider. Would this not tho hide from view the gifted ceiling?
Roger Ramjet wrote:In the still of the night
these guys are scaring me now. Jokes aside tho again if one were to go with that I’d think it best to forget were one heard it for conspiracy makes it worse.
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby geordie » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:15 pm

PP good memory on the disco fire :D :D not sure if gemany or fiji :( but i do remember it killed a few hundred people mostly tourists nowadays it flame retarded But alowing for the T,I,T factor forget that even flame retardent will smoulder and the gasses realeased will kill

Definately a no no to polystyrene glueing it even would be a problem again fiberglass wool will sit on the tiles but will not hide them

Paybacs reflectivity has nothing to do with it white magnolia blue green its a matter of taste
just not pink :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby payebacs » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:19 pm

geordie wrote:Paybacs reflectivity has nothing to do with it white magnolia blue green its a matter of taste
just not pink :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Perhaps the pink will grow on you Cooked like a fine wine. (Even builders have a feminine side Geordie. Cooked has probably just yet to find his). As for the reflectivity, okay, I feel up to speed. Basically the pink stands out if nothing else is pink so apart from wanting insulation that might be the way to go cooked ie, pink curtains, pink carpet etc..
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby Ians » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:29 pm

cooked wrote:----- (They also put in PINK tiles the last time I was away, because they were cheap. I can't STAND pink!) --------------


Well it doesn't rate compared to the externals of a house painted in pink
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Re: insulating the ceiling from underneath?

Postby cooked » Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:00 am

Ok guys, consider me as appropriately nagged and convinced, I'll do it the conventional way, stuffing bats or rolls up through the squares, making sure they extend to the edges of the ceiling, vapour barrier on top (right?). I will obviously start by thinking that I can get away with just taking out every 10th square or so but finish by taking out nearly all of them one after the other. Doesn't sound like a good day. I'll have to live with the bloody tiles. Ok? Everybody ok with that? Thanks, the responses received, you helped me to decide. Next: roof space ventilation, insulating the south facing wall. Then, hopefully, no air conditioning....
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