Attic Insulation

Air conditioning, fans, and anything related to keeping it cool, such as insulation. This would include any posts generally discussing how to keep it cool, such as which types of blocks are better insulators.... ideal wall thickness for keeping an A/C house cool, etc.

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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby Maseratimartin » Wed May 18, 2011 8:52 am

fredlk wrote:
Fritz wrote:I can assume that the bugs residing in Thailand don't take a liking in insulation material... ?

I have never heard of anybody complain of bugs or insects in their insulation. I think it is laid as it is and no extra protection is added.
Fritz wrote:Any ideas on prices ranges for rolls of 0.6X4.00 m?

".


Regarding bugs I cannot feedback, but I know that mouse and rat have no issue with the insulation material...in Europe at least.

But in Thailand this might not be an issue as mouse and rat would rather need AC than a insulated warm place... :mrgreen:
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby Fritz » Wed May 18, 2011 1:02 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies.

For ceiling insulation over the whole top of the house it would work out at about 4,500 baht (including 10% extra) not including labor. This is well worth trying.
Does anyone else have experience with this in terms of noise reduction?

I appreciate the quick replies as I'm not a regular poster on this forum. If I go ahead with the ceiling insulation I'll post the results.
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed May 18, 2011 1:18 pm

Fritz,
In answer to your question I put in R10 insulation (fiberglass inside reflective foil) into the ceiling of my remodeled/extended townhouse, not only is it a lot cooler, it is also quieter, especially as the back of the townhouse is just the Thai fibro roof sheeting, not tiles.
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby cfhebertjrphayao » Wed May 18, 2011 2:23 pm

Fritz,

Noise from what?

This fiberglass is not densly packed but,IMHO,should provide a slight reduction factor. Unless that is, you are using tin for roofing material. Then it may not be what you want. CPAC monier tiles would have provided all the noise reduction you should need from the roof area. I plan on adding an additional layer of R 11 before next summer.

If you are looking for sound absorption in the room, good quality gypsum ceiling and wood paneling with 1" foam on top of brick helped me keep out the sound of the confounded, eternal crowing of the local c0cks.

Yes you wil lay it directly on top of the ceiling. I would attach pics but do not know how to reduce size of mine and the limit here is less than 300 kb.
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby fredlk » Wed May 18, 2011 3:35 pm

cfhebertjrphayao wrote:I would attach pics but do not know how to reduce size of mine and the limit here is less than 300 kb.

There is geordie's method at http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2319&p=20530&hilit=resize#p20531.
Let me know if you need help.
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby geordie » Wed May 18, 2011 5:27 pm

fritz being specific the fiberglass wool is not heavy so should lay on an existing ceiling ok
soundproofing it is common to use fiberglass wool to fill voids and kill noise so yes it will reduce noise to a degree it used extensively on stud walls for that purpose
Regarding rodents you may well find they will make a home in it as they will anywhere they can but its highly unlikely they will eat the stuff as it has a nutrition value of zero and would probably damage them to eat it
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby Fritz » Wed May 18, 2011 10:38 pm

The noise reduction is aimed at keeping noise out of the room. In the morning there is noise from the village speakers that wakes me up. Thais can deal with it, I can't as I have a really busy job and need my weekends to relax and sleep in the morning and do work in the afternoons. (during the week I stay in my condo in the city).

We have the CPAC mornier roof tiles but there is no noise reduction from that for the high tones from the village speakers. The ceiling is built of a single sheet (4 mm) thinly plastered to cover up some fissures and seems etc.

I'm also thinking about installing double pane PVC windows but that operation will be a bit bigger and as we are planning to rent out the house not directly profitable for us.

We'll definitely go ahead with the fiberglass wool option for the ceiling. The type that is usually installed in between outer and inner walls in European houses, albeit only for the sake of aircon efficiency.

However, any ideas on noise reduction from outside sources is more than welcome of course.
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby geordie » Thu May 19, 2011 5:57 am

Cutting the wires to the speaker is a bit harsh ? :evil: :evil:

If you are renting the house out is it going to be an issue for the new tennant most things you can get used to i find it more anoying the dogs barking and cocks crowing at all hours of the night usually acompanied by a lone motorcycle with little or no exhaust

Village life can be fun

Usually i am up at 6am anyway i love to spend 15 mins watching the sunrise over there feed the monks as they walk around but then i am happy to have a siesta miday when its too hot to do anything
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby sezze » Thu May 19, 2011 6:14 am

I've heard stories about all kinds of small animals in the isolation above the ceiling . It is not that they eat it , they build nests inside it . If it is true or not , i do not know but i can imagine to be true .
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby Maseratimartin » Thu May 19, 2011 8:51 am

Ok, now a crazy idea but maybe also a very good idea:

After installing the ceiling let the guys come and spray the foam insulation on top of the ceiling?!

That would create an airtight insulation...strengthen the ceiling and there no animals will move in.

Do two layers with mesh between and you can walk on your ceiling...

:?
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby Fritz » Thu May 19, 2011 5:18 pm

geordie wrote:Cutting the wires to the speaker is a bit harsh ? :evil: :evil:

If you are renting the house out is it going to be an issue for the new tennant most things you can get used to i find it more anoying the dogs barking and cocks crowing at all hours of the night usually acompanied by a lone motorcycle with little or no exhaust

Village life can be fun

Usually i am up at 6am anyway i love to spend 15 mins watching the sunrise over there feed the monks as they walk around but then i am happy to have a siesta miday when its too hot to do anything




Cutting the wires.... and then receiving a bill on which a wire 'all of a sudden' costs 2000 baht per meter.
Renting out the place is one of the reasons why I want the insulation on the ceiling. We actually live only a kilometer away from the city so it's quite odd that we have this free radio broadcast in the morning. Actually by law the village heads of subdistricts located IN amphur muang are prohibited from doing this. But rules in Thailand.....

We are relocating further south and currently in the process of calculating the cost of building a small house on a plot of land we have. We'll definitely include wall/ceiling insulation in that design from the beginning. My parents are adding an extra bedroom to their house in Europe and I've heard it's common practice to use Styrofoam as wall insulation nowadays.
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby sezze » Thu May 19, 2011 5:55 pm

Maseratimartin wrote:Ok, now a crazy idea but maybe also a very good idea:

After installing the ceiling let the guys come and spray the foam insulation on top of the ceiling?!

That would create an airtight insulation...strengthen the ceiling and there no animals will move in.

Do two layers with mesh between and you can walk on your ceiling...

:?


True , but the heat cannot escape . If you put enough of it on your ceiling it isn't a problem , since it cannot travel down but still . This is close to the highest of finish possible and also the highest of price possible . 1 step higher and you are there , a attick fan to suck the heat out when trapped inside and let the air in through the ceiling .
Roof spray isn't cheap , and 2 layers of 6 inch glass fiber adds up also , but the attick fan isn't expensive . When going for a high standard home i would absolutely recommend this system .
Nr 2 would be foil under roof , glassfibre on ceiling and fan for pumping in or out air of the attick .
The cheapest technique which still will do quite a lot is ventilation of the attick ( natural or fan based ) and isolation above ceiling . That way still heat of ceiling will go out through the ventilation and the remaining part of it is stopped by the isolation above the ceiling .
I hear people speak of ceiling fans as a good idea but i think it is the worst of all . Heat travels up , in case the ceiling get's hot due to reasons of above ( attick ) or from heat in the room , then you just blow it down creating a big airflow of hot air towards the living area ( ground level ) . Any ground fan is by far the best for preventing it . Ceiling fans do look very nice , but are not good for this reason .
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby geordie » Thu May 19, 2011 8:14 pm

sezze wrote:
Maseratimartin wrote:Ok, now a crazy idea but maybe also a very good idea:

After installing the ceiling let the guys come and spray the foam insulation on top of the ceiling?!

That would create an airtight insulation...strengthen the ceiling and there no animals will move in.

Do two layers with mesh between and you can walk on your ceiling...

:?


True , but the heat cannot escape . If you put enough of it on your ceiling it isn't a problem , since it cannot travel down but still . This is close to the highest of finish possible and also the highest of price possible . 1 step higher and you are there , a attick fan to suck the heat out when trapped inside and let the air in through the ceiling .
Roof spray isn't cheap , and 2 layers of 6 inch glass fiber adds up also , but the attick fan isn't expensive . When going for a high standard home i would absolutely recommend this system .
Nr 2 would be foil under roof , glassfibre on ceiling and fan for pumping in or out air of the attick .
The cheapest technique which still will do quite a lot is ventilation of the attick ( natural or fan based ) and isolation above ceiling . That way still heat of ceiling will go out through the ventilation and the remaining part of it is stopped by the isolation above the ceiling .
I hear people speak of ceiling fans as a good idea but i think it is the worst of all . Heat travels up , in case the ceiling get's hot due to reasons of above ( attick ) or from heat in the room , then you just blow it down creating a big airflow of hot air towards the living area ( ground level ) . Any ground fan is by far the best for preventing it . Ceiling fans do look very nice , but are not good for this reason .


Both amusing ways of tackling the same problem but if the high cost of the foam is to be paid put it underneath the tiles and stop the heat penetrating in the first place :? :?

why pay for an attic fan ? vent the roof adequately at the eaves to allow cooler air in from shaded area,s underneath and at the highest point you can to allow hot air to escape no fan needed nature dictates hot air to rise so it will draw in cooler air get it cool enough and a good aiflow you could vent the ceilings into the attic also and then it might be wiorth a small bathroom type fan sucking air from the room into the attic
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
If it aint broke, dont fix it
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby Fritz » Sat May 21, 2011 10:34 am

geordie wrote:
sezze wrote:
Maseratimartin wrote:Ok, now a crazy idea but maybe also a very good idea:

After installing the ceiling let the guys come and spray the foam insulation on top of the ceiling?!

That would create an airtight insulation...strengthen the ceiling and there no animals will move in.

Do two layers with mesh between and you can walk on your ceiling...

:?


True , but the heat cannot escape . If you put enough of it on your ceiling it isn't a problem , since it cannot travel down but still . This is close to the highest of finish possible and also the highest of price possible . 1 step higher and you are there , a attick fan to suck the heat out when trapped inside and let the air in through the ceiling .
Roof spray isn't cheap , and 2 layers of 6 inch glass fiber adds up also , but the attick fan isn't expensive . When going for a high standard home i would absolutely recommend this system .
Nr 2 would be foil under roof , glassfibre on ceiling and fan for pumping in or out air of the attick .
The cheapest technique which still will do quite a lot is ventilation of the attick ( natural or fan based ) and isolation above ceiling . That way still heat of ceiling will go out through the ventilation and the remaining part of it is stopped by the isolation above the ceiling .
I hear people speak of ceiling fans as a good idea but i think it is the worst of all . Heat travels up , in case the ceiling get's hot due to reasons of above ( attick ) or from heat in the room , then you just blow it down creating a big airflow of hot air towards the living area ( ground level ) . Any ground fan is by far the best for preventing it . Ceiling fans do look very nice , but are not good for this reason .


Both amusing ways of tackling the same problem but if the high cost of the foam is to be paid put it underneath the tiles and stop the heat penetrating in the first place :? :?

why pay for an attic fan ? vent the roof adequately at the eaves to allow cooler air in from shaded area,s underneath and at the highest point you can to allow hot air to escape no fan needed nature dictates hot air to rise so it will draw in cooler air get it cool enough and a good aiflow you could vent the ceilings into the attic also and then it might be wiorth a small bathroom type fan sucking air from the room into the attic


I guess we'll be settling for installing ceiling insulation and keeping the space on top of the eaves open to ensure the intake of cooler air from underneath there.
I have thought about installing a whirley bird fan (as they're called I believe) on top of the roof but it was recommended only to do this if you have reflective foil directly underneath the roof tiles, i.e., when hot air is trapped underneath the roof. Besides that the aesthetic value of whirley bird fans are relatively low.

I hope I can get someone this week to put it in.
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Re: Attic Insulation

Postby green_arnold » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:18 pm

Three types of solutions are available to shield houses from heat in Thailand:

Solution 1: the most effective way of insulating any roof is to paint it with a solar reflective coating, which blocks heat before it even enters the house. Such coatings are:
- Planet Supra nano Thermal Barrier Paint, which is a nanotechnology solar reflective paint made in Japan and since 2009 available in Thailand. Cement fiber tile surface temperature is brought down from >60C to 40C.
- Ceramic Coatings: mid-range solar reflective coatings available from local brands, such as TOA, Beyer Cool. They will reduce temperature of a cement fiber tile roof from 5 to 10C.

Solution 2: if painting the roof is not possible or convenient, or in complement of painting it, you can install a radiant barrier foil under the roof surface. These are typically aluminum composite foils and can be installed on the rafters, below the roof itself, or even on top of the ceiling, facing the roof. They will reflect most of the heat coming through the roof. The cheapest will last a few years only, while better quality ones (not much more expensive) can last for the house's lifespan.

Solution 3: install a thick insulating material, which is usually insulating foam sandwiched between 2 layers of metal foil. Performance depends largely on thickness and quality of the enveloping foil. Contrary to painting the roof with reflective paint or installing a radiant barrier foil, this solution will try to absorb the heat that is already built-up in the attic.

I hope this helps.
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