keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Any thing to do with swimming pools, fish ponds, or other man made structures which hold water (but not wells for drinking water).

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keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby setaputra » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:26 pm

( sorry previously posted in plumbing thread )

Don't think this question has been addressed before so here goes.

In my sarapii thread you will see i have a small lake ( well, an excavation dug in preparation) . the land is next to a klong ( i would call it a small ditch 1 metre deep, 2 wide )

The builders and I had assumed it could fill from the klong. looking at the vegetation on the side of the klong I think the klong never gets that high as the water runs along through the village.

the builders, who are of course Thai, say there will be no problem and it will be full before they leave.

i could divert the water until the lake is full ( over time, not inconveniencing others) or pump the water in, or use a well and borehole located next to the lake. whether the water will hold is another matter i suppose.

i'm getting on well with the builders but i appreciate ( their being thai ) that they would never tell me that the idea of a lake is not feasible.

anyone been in this position.

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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby setaputra » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:02 pm

By chance talked to a royal projects advisor yesterday. Some good ideas on my concerns for the lake.
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby pattayapope » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:49 pm

Well

Any update, I have a pond on my property and during the dry season it drops about 1.6 meters. I have heard lots of different ways to maintian the level, line with Bentonite clay among others but quite costly. My only solution is to make it look nice when the water level drops (plant on the banks) and feed all the rain water from the house roof when it rains, I have an overflow so it can't flood anymore but short of spending thousands of baht on electricity pump water into it I guess that is all I can do.
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby chiyman » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:05 pm

I would really appreciate any advice on the use of bentonite as a sealing medium for a pond. The land we have is very sandy and does not hold water at all so some form of membrane will be required (either a man made rubber/plastic, locally dug clay, or bentonite). From another thread I have managed to establish that the cost of a man made liner will be about THB 25-30/square meter. I would very much like advise on the use of bentonite for the pond lining and any costs/suppliers which the members can recommend. I dont think clay is available in our area.
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby pattayapope » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:57 am

A friend in Kanchanaburi used bentonite clay to seal his pond, he mixed it with fine soil about 50 50 and spread it about 2 to 3 inches deep then covered it with more soil. Might be a bit expensive for a big pond though, it can be purchased from a company in Rayong. If you google you will get the information, also google sealing a pond with Bentonite and there are serveral pieces of information which should point you in the right direction.
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby pattayapope » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:10 pm

Also check out this thread on Thai Visa

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/429 ... ke-a-pond/
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby MGV12 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:43 pm

pattayapope wrote:A friend in Kanchanaburi used bentonite clay to seal his pond, he mixed it with fine soil about 50 50 and spread it about 2 to 3 inches deep then covered it with more soil. Might be a bit expensive for a big pond though, it can be purchased from a company in Rayong. If you google you will get the information, also google sealing a pond with Bentonite and there are serveral pieces of information which should point you in the right direction.


Apparently Sodium Bentonite is great for stopping water seeping from a dug pond due to its expanding or 'clogging' nature ... would be good to know of somewhere nearer to Chiang Mai city it was available. Also .. I am looking for some Calcium Bentonite and would appreciate any clues on where to get that. I understand that both versions exist aplenty in LOS but haven't had much luck so far in tracking them down around CM.

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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby geordie » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:19 am

i would love to see some pics and prices of the bentonite i have only seen two types a 25 kg bag looks like cat litter at £4.50=bht225 or a 20 grm bag for mudpacks £2-£3 a pop take a look on that well known auction site its sold for cosmetic use and cost a fortune so should
you throw the wife in the pond for her own good (apearance wise)and then hold her face in the mud?? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby pattayapope » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:56 am

Volclay sell the bentonite in 50 kg bags it is about 330 baht a bag, below is website.The factory is close to Pattaya and the can deliver anywhere in Thailand if you buy enough, that is about all I know.

www.volclaysiam.com/vsaboutus/volclayaboutus.htm
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby geordie » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:50 pm

not far off uk prices then i think i would go with pvc as a cheaper alternitive for anything bigger than a garden pond ???
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby setaputra » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:17 pm

not sure how long pvc ( or even something stronger) would last

have u thought of natural sealing methods
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby pattayapope » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:11 pm

setaputra wrote:have u thought of natural sealing methods


A friend of mine said he planted rice in it and after that it was much better at holding water, my pond goes down about an inch a day but my only real concern is the state of some of the banks. When it is low enough I will repair those and put some semi aquatic plants in.

How is you pond these days setaputra? would be nice to see some pictures.
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby chiyman » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:02 pm

I managed to find a source for bulk delivery of Bentonite in Saraburi. Start price was THB 1,200/tonne excluding delivery. I calculate that I will need about 30 tonnes. The cost for sealing the pond, which has approximate dimensions 50m x 50m x 4m deep, using Bentonite would be circa THB 36,000.

I also checked the price for plastic (or similar) membrane. The most sensible price I got was THB 4,800 for a 2m wide roll 100m long. For my particular pool this equates to circa THB 60,000 (probably a bit more when the pool depth, plastic overlap and wastage is considered). I dont particulary like the idea of sheet as it can be punctured and can also be sensitive to the suns UV.

"Jazzman" has suggested concrete and chicken wire might be a good solution. If I assume concrete is 50mm thick I would require about 125 cubic meters of concrete. I assume cost of concrete is more than THB 1,000/cubic meter (THB 500/cubic meter for stone, THB 500/cubic meter for Sand and THB 110 per bag for cement) therefore price in excess of THB 125,000 (this excludes the chicken wire). Also concerned about thermal expansion and cracking of the concrete liner (even with chicken wire included with the matrix).

Another option would be to find a good source of clay locally (and somebody prepared to sell it). I havent been able to find such a source near me in Chiyaphum. This would be perfect but I guess most of the surrounding land is similar to mine (sandy with small stones - highly permeable) and has the same problem.

The natural bentonite/clay solution is my preferred solution on the grounds of cost and also because if the seal becomes damaged it would be easy to repair by simply applying more clay/bentonite.

I will post again as the project progresses when I have something interesting to report. For now I have to get digging before the rain comes!

Does anybody want to sell a tractor? - preferably with a back hoe attachment (Macro in Thai speak).
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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby MGV12 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:47 pm

chiyman wrote:I managed to find a source for bulk delivery of Bentonite in Saraburi. Start price was THB 1,200/tonne excluding delivery. I calculate that I will need about 30 tonnes. The cost for sealing the pond, which has approximate dimensions 50m x 50m x 4m deep, using Bentonite would be circa THB 36,000.



Bentonite should certainly do the trick ... have you seen the form in which it will be delivered? We had some so-called topsoil delivered the other day and it had big chunks of clay in it ... not Bentonite but if yours comes in similar form it will take a considerable amount of wetting and crushing before it breaks down enough to form a seal. Just worth checking if you haven't already. A geologist at the local university apparently said that it can take two years for a pond to fully seal ..... I think it was the same guy who said to throw a few bags of chicken 'poo' in the pond ... quite a few in your case ... this will cause a massive algae bloom which will then die when the poo is exhausted and the fine debris will seal the pond.

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Re: keeping water in a lake - see my sarapii thread

Postby setaputra » Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:56 pm

The level is being maintained naturally and has been for over a year now. I do have the advantage that it is topped up by the small klong which has water in it three days a week. When I first posted here it was more intermittent. Local politics changed that.
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