Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

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Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby thailazer » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:48 pm

Ten years ago, Thailand was a welcoming country with a developing democracy. Things are certainly different today, and with analysis of things that might possibly happen, many are selling out and trying to recoup on their building investments, myself included. I ran into some folks last week that were planning on moving to Thailand in the next year to build a house and do missionary work. I asked them if they were aware of the political and other situations here and they were totally clueless to what is going on in Thailand. (The fellow was not even aware that Thailand is under a military-controlled junta.) I sent the fellow off with a few google searches to do and hopefully he will be more prepared if and when he does decide to move his life to Thailand.

Many times in my past I have told friends to not hitch their life to a train wreck, and now I am feeling the same way about Thailand. But I am curious and have a question to those that are buying property and starting the building process. What is giving you the confidence to do so? What do you see on the horizon that gives you the confidence to proceed?
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:00 pm

In Thailand military rule comes and military rule goes then "democracy" comes and "democracy" goes and military rule comes again. It is the Thai way. The local people usually don't notice the difference or care very much.

I've been here off and on during the last 3 and it is same same. You over rate democracy. I don't know of any country with real democracy.

Usually nothing much changes. This time there seems to be a bit of real cleaning up happening.

Since, with the exception of Taksin and family, all the politicians were military and many retired military become politicians and all governments both military and civilian recognise the King as head of state. Is it surprising that not much changes?


Only Hiati, China, Bolivia and Afghanistan have similar numbers and AFIK they were much more bloody and often involved big change.

June 24, 1932: The Khana Ratsadon party overthrows the absolute monarchy of King Prajadhipok.
June 20, 1933: Phraya Phahon Phonphayuhasena overthrows Phraya Manopakorn Nititada.
November 7, 1947: Phin Choonhavan overthrows Thawal Thamrong Navaswadhi.
November 29, 1951: Military overthrows 1949 constitution and reverts to 1932 constitution.
September 21, 1957: Sarit Thanarat overthrows Plaek Pibulsongkram
October 20, 1958: Self-coup of Sarit Thanarat
November 18, 1971: Self-coup of Thanom Kittikachorn
October 6, 1976: Sangad Chaloryu overthrows Seni Pramoj
October 20, 1977: Kriangsak Chomanan overthrows Tanin Kraivixien
February 24, 1991: Sunthorn Kongsompong overthrows Chatichai Choonhavan
September 19, 2006: Sonthi Boonyaratglin overthrows Thaksin Shinawatra
May 22, 2014: Prayuth Chan-ocha overthrows Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby BKKBILL » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:13 pm

I have a number of friends who have left Thailand or are waiting for their property to sell before leaving.

I like it here, have a great place, drive a nice car, have good friends, able to live comfortably on the stipend deposited in my Thai bank by the Canadian government.

Now if one thinks there is a safe place to retire with these things now being built, there isn't one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8YjvHYbZ9w

Bill Gates has joined Stephen Hawking in talking about the future dangers of AI.
It's not who you know, it's whom you know.
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:19 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:Usually nothing much changes. This time there seems to be a bit of real cleaning up happening.

Now I've actually physically been here for 3. Everything changes. What the last coup didn't achieve in terms of suppressing normal people, the next coup does.
People seem to forget where they come from, the military is there for emergencies, and people protection on their borders. I defy one person who can tell me that military coups are "normal" in their country. I defy one person who can tell me that the military commander of their respective country who, if involved in a coup, would not be before the courts and in gaol in record time. It's called treason where I come from.
I defy one person to tell me what real cleaning has been done. Nothing, absolutely nothing has been done at all. Please don't raise the rice pledging scheme, that was government policy that got them elected in the first place and every democratic country in the world has those same policies. Just like the previous government introduced free medical (30 Baht).
This country revolves around fiefdoms. It is still in the Dark Ages as far as starting a democracy and most of the farangs here are apologists when it comes to coups because they're crap frightened to speak out against the generals (small g for them). This is the only country that has 1800 generals for an army mostly made up of forced national servicemen. Each time there is a coup the country goes back 15 years.
Try and read the real history of Thailand and you'll find the websites are blocked.
Bah, humbug.
You can't rule a country by fear and propaganda alone otherwise it ends up like North Korea. The US Assistant Under Secretary for Asia/pacific was totally correct in what he said at his lecture. So were all the foreign Generals who contacted the "regime" after the coup and denounced their actions. Just have a look at the countries that refuse to issue travel visas for the coup leaders and you'll get a clear picture of what the democratic countries feel about the last coup. Great Britain, Europe Union, Canada, America, Australia etc etc etc have all refused visas and even told them not to apply.
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Shastadad » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:32 pm

I am more worried about the unbridled growth here in the Pattaya-Na Jomtien-Bang Sarey- Sattahip area than I am about the mercurial political system here in Thailand

Have been in and around this area for 4 years now and it seems to never stop. More condos, more housing estates, yet little or no infrastructure improvements

When they do try and make any improvements they always seem to do something stupid that negates the gains. The Second Road build from Pattaya to Jomtien for instance. Great road that basically dead ends into a two way split when it reaches Pattaya, and ends in North bound only routing at Sukumvit
( Obviously built with public funds for the benefit of future condo developments and/or current land owners)

Where is the sewage going for all these huge condo buildings I see along the beach ? Where are they going to get the water for them ? How about electricity ?

More people means more traffic, yet they don't seem to be able to keep up with the increased traffic by building or improving the roads. And don't even expect any law enforcement activity to speed up traffic. The best you are going to find is a policeman operating the light at Klang and Third, who probably causes more problems than he solves. They won't tow double parkers even on Sukumvit where they are building an underground tunnel for traffic where the traffic must merge from 4 lanes into 2. Closer to Pattaya Tai it goes down to one lane because of another road construction project that has been done 5 times now

Politics don't seem to effect us expats much but the quality of life is sure going down hill
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:22 pm

Shastadad wrote:Politics don't seem to effect us expats much but the quality of life is sure going down hill

Poor expats, what about the Thai? They are affected more than retired expats, especially the ones who actually have to go to work each day.
This is what happens not through politics but during periods of rule by the juntas. Even the current junta has given the anointed/appointed public servants (read permanent secretaries) the authority to launch their own projects by just submitting a budget. They never realise that when a project is undertaken it requires a yearly budget to maintain, an infrastructure to manage it in the future, and competent people to run it. To the generals it doesn't matter because half of them will benefit in some way or another.
To the judges who adjudicate peoples' complaints they can't, won't or are too scared to say anything, let alone take on the case. And if they do then you get rulings like this one..... Flood water mitigation plan, complete with EIS, costings, etc etc etc cost 30 billion. Quote from judge who "took on the case" from a "Thai elite" who had been excluded from the project because of lack of knowledge of the actual problem. The judge, in refusing the elected government the right to raise the funds for the project said in his summary of the facts: "Personally, I think 30 billion baht is a lot of money and I think we shouldn't raise that money because it will mean paying it back." That was it, that was the legal ruling that caused the cancellation of the proposed flood mitigation plan. But you have to look on the bright side, the junta approved the whole plan overnight, with their modifications and I bet the "Thai elite" who was excluded because of lack of knowledge now has the biggest slice.....next to the generals
You should listen to what the Thais have to say, they are as pissed off as the rest of us. My wife takes hours to get to work, thanks to some idiot who knows nothing about traffic management playing with a set of lights. The government built a central traffic control system and staffed it with trained personnel, just for the whole thing to be overridden by some little police private sitting in his air conditioned box playing with the controls.
You can't have 6 lanes going into 2 lanes, it just doesn't work. It's why cities build bypass roads, ring roads and expressways.....but tell that to the generals....ah that's right, you're not allowed.
And if you think the sewerage problem will get worse with all those condos all you need to do is go up in a plane and look along the beaches at Cha Am and Hua Hin and you can see the sewerage slick for miles and miles. When I flew to Phuket just after the tsunami you could see the sewerage slick for miles there too. And at Samui and every other island. There is no planning in this country and there never will be.
And finally, as I posted before with all the references, how can a general on just over 120,000 baht a month become a US dollar billionaire/millionaire during his 40 years in service of the country? Perhaps people should go to the Arms Fairs and see the entourage the Thai generals have following them around. The next billionaires will come out of the navy who are now getting their submarine fleet, which I think will be very interesting, just like their aircraft carrier that is tethered without any operational aircraft. Or maybe the air force might beat them as they are getting all new choppers, but again they forgot the maintenance budget and spare parts. Sigh.
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby thailazer » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:35 am

I have several friends that agree with some of the earlier posts that nothing ever changes after the coups. The situation seems different to me these days however, as there seems to be less interest in foreigners and more interest in channeling corruption money into the right coffers. What alarms me is posters from high government officials denoting foreigners with the pronoun "mon" which refers to someone not worth human characteristics or similar to piece of fat basically telling them if they want a farang lifestyle, go somewhere else. Feels to me like politics will hit non-Thai's at some point in the future.

Still interested in hearing anyone with evidence or theories of what makes things secure here in the future. We sold our place and I transferred cash back to the USA, but might do it all again here after or if things stabilize.
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:07 pm

For all those people who welcomed the army coup to get rid of corruption and nepotism in Thailand: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.ph ... ypecate=06 and as the army chief sees nothing wrong with it....why the coup in the first place?
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:23 pm

The dictator today gave a lecture to the press about what they should and shouldn't write about. Here is an excerpt. I think he must be taking Lyrica like I am. :lol:

Many of you didn't elect me, that's true, no one has elected me. It's me who came to this place on my own. Maybe I am here for personal gain? I don't know. The media keeps writing that I have a personal stake in this, I have a personal stake in that. I am here to solve problems for all Thais. But today you divide people into factions. Many people have lost their heart in working. Bureaucrats are also having bad time, because I have to be strict with them, but at the same time they are attacked [by media]. So they don't know what to do. There are many good bureaucrats, over 90 percent are good. They feel disheartened. The Cabinet also doesn't know for whom they will work. We are not seeking any personal gain at all, but we keep getting insulted everyday. You never give us support. I want to ask you: who will [want to] work for you? What do you want from me? I'm bored. I don't want to complain.

The full speech can be found here: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.ph ... ypecate=06 I think it deserves reading whilst listening to Peter Paul and Mary's singing "Times they are a'changing" or you culd listen to Bob Dylan's version, but I prefer the former.
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby oil » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:45 am

Democracy as we know it in the western countries ... turned to be more like the rich rule over the poor, as for big companies riding the rule book for all others ... so there is nothing democratic on this version what we would would call a democracy, Our elections are fake and we complain about surpression in other countries ... i might make sense to look whats happening for real in the countries of our origin ...

We are used to that since we growed up there ... but in fact its far worse where we come from ... the only sad thing is that TH is on the superhighway to the same police state
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby BKKBILL » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:50 pm

I think you are right about most of that oil. For an interesting short take on where western democracy is heading.

The slow withering of politics and democracy in the western world is reaching a point of crisis. Ernesto Gallo and Giovanni Biava offer a diagnosis and a series of remedies.

The rest is here:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ernesto-g ... ecline-and

As for the last putsch government was barely functioning at the time.

Here is what the CBC posted about that.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/thailand-s ... -1.2658846
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:59 pm

BKKBILL wrote:Here is what the CBC posted about that.

There's too much truth in that article Bill, so we'll see the army ban it shortly, or CBC. Bit like the scandal rag Daily Mail online, binned to the annuls of cyberspace for normal people.
This time the army act for the army.... it's way passed time they had submarines, new tanks, new APC's and rifles. The planes they have, with more on the way and it will all end like the aircraft carrier and Harriers they did have...... the maintenance budget will go into the generals' pockets and the item will become a tourist attraction, with the money raised going into the generals pockets as well.
The only way to save Thailand is by scrapping the education system from the ground up.
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby BKKBILL » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:58 am

About business running this new democracy this guy may be the republicans chosen one.

https://youtu.be/DnpO_RTSNmQ
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:16 am

BKKBILL wrote:About business running this new democracy this guy may be the republicans chosen one.

Gees Bill give us a break, who the F&&k is John Oliver anyway? Don't start the Yanks off about their politics, look at the choices they have Trump or Hillary. At least Jeb Bush has pulled out. Three Bush's would have been three too many.
The only great speech given by a US president was JFK when he said he would "scatter the CIA to the four winds", but we all know that didn't happen.
The Yanks get what they deserve.
Everyone knows that politicians lie through their teeth, just look at what Australia has got at the moment. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Times are a'changing, but some forge on.....

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:47 am

BKKBILL wrote:About business running this new democracy this guy may be the republicans chosen one.

Here you go Bill latest results:
Projected results by US media, based on exit polls:


Democrats:

Hillary Clinton to win Texas, Virginia, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas and Tennessee.
Bernie Sanders to claim Vermont and Oklahoma
It is too close to call in Massachusetts


Republicans:

Donald Trump to win in Georgia, Alabama, Massachussets, Virginia and Tennessee
Mr Trump ahead in Arkansas and Vermont
Ted Cruz to win in Texas and Oklahoma
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-02/s ... ve/7212358

Will Donald Trump ban/throw out Canadians if elected? Or will he just say "You're fired". :lol:
At least he has a better handicap at golf than all the rest.
The only thing I know about him is from the Celebrity Apprentice when he sacked Gene Simmons who said Kodak would go bust if they continued to make cameras instead of concentrating on what they were good at, processing film. Gene Simmons proved to be correct and Kodak declared bankruptcy 2 months later. Bad call Donald, Gene's as rich as you are, but hides it well.
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