Family cars other than minivans

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Family cars other than minivans

Postby vanda » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:21 am

Just a thread I thought I'd open up about family vehicles and gather some intel. I will be in the market for a family vehicle, hopefully one that seats more than 5 as well as a baby capsule for my son who should arrive early August. The current "norm" is for everyone to pile into the tray of the Toyota Vigo or to sit in the back seat of the kingcab which has no seatbelts and is just as deadly in the event of an accident. As I have already lost a friend from falling out of the tray of a moving vehicle I don't allow anyone to sit in the tray, at least when I'm there that is.
So I put it to you the well informed expats of CTH, what are your vehicles of choice? How reliable are they? How much do they cost?

My partner is hell bent on getting a Toyota Fortuner, which range from 1.1mil to 1.5mil baht, they appear to be a good vehicle, but appearance is only good for the thai's I need practicability as well. What I've tried to convey to my partner is that it would still be cheaper to buy a brand new sedan for approx 500,000b and keep the ute than it would be to trade it in to buy the Fortuner. I'm looking for something with an Automatic transmission, doesn't need 4wd capabilities nor a huge amount of power, we have bitumen roads all round and no hills. The only necessity required by my partner, is that it looks nice...
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby sirineou » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:05 am

First let me say that car prices in Thailand are ridiculously high,I know the reason, taxes, but non the less they are ridiculously expensive. I am from the US and I am used to paying a certain amount for a vehicle,
and I will be damned if I pay $40-60,000 for a car that I can buy in the US for $ 20,000, So that does not leave me with a lot of choices.
For a vehicle that can conformable and safely seat more than 5 people, for the money, it would have to be a mini van, no other options in a reasonable price range,and it would have to be the Toyota Avanza at 580,000 bht.
I own a Pick-up truck in Thailand, but my wife hates driving it, and we are in the market for a second car,I have looked at all the new cars available (i would not buy a used car in Thailand) at the 500,000 baht and for what you get for the money , IMO, the Honda City S AT is the best option at 589,000 bht .but it only seats 5 , which in my case is ok, For any non minivan vehicle that seats more than 5 you will have to pay a lot in Thailand, which as I explained in my opening I refuse to do.
Any way , I am in the research stage of my process also, so I look forward to any different opinions,
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby fredlk » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:20 am

I don't like the look of the Toyota Avanza and being very happy with my Suzuki Swift I'd go for the 7-seat Suzuki Ertiga at 554,000 Baht to 689,000 Baht:

pic_price.jpg

ertiga-price.jpg

Screen Shot 2014-03-24 at Monday - 24 Mar 2014 - 11.21.53 .png
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby vanda » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:53 pm

Funnily enough Fred my partner didn't like the look of the Avanza either, she went to the local dealership to check it out and also said it looked quite small. I didn't notice to Suzuki Ertiga last time I checked their website, I'll have another look though. Sirineou you are quite right about the price of cars in Thailand, shopping around I find many vehicles are much the same cost here in Australia, kind of sad really. And in no-way would I buy a second hand vehicle in Thailand either. I will continue my research into the vehicles and post any findings.
Your input is much appreciated guys, cheers!
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby vanda » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:04 pm

Among my travels through the internet I found this website which pretty much comes up with a list of cars available in Thailand for your price range

http://www.siamnewcar.com/

I guess the only thing left to do is have the missus decide on what she likes from the list...
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby pattayapope » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:27 pm

vanda wrote:I guess the only thing left to do is have the missus decide on what she likes from the list...


I would edit out the expensive ones first :roll:
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby vanda » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:28 pm

pattayapope wrote:
vanda wrote:I guess the only thing left to do is have the missus decide on what she likes from the list...


I would edit out the expensive ones first :roll:


Haha, I guess she'll have to settle for a scooter then :-D
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:50 am

sirineou wrote:First let me say that car prices in Thailand are ridiculously high,I know the reason, taxes, but non the less they are ridiculously expensive. I am from the US and I am used to paying a certain amount for a vehicle,.

Not really. The US has ridiculously low prices for many products and cars are just one of them. There is a reason why the US produces ¼ of the worlds CO2.
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby sirineou » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:13 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
sirineou wrote:First let me say that car prices in Thailand are ridiculously high,I know the reason, taxes, but non the less they are ridiculously expensive. I am from the US and I am used to paying a certain amount for a vehicle,.

Not really. The US has ridiculously low prices for many products and cars are just one of them. There is a reason why the US produces ¼ of the worlds CO2.

Not really. The US has ridiculously low prices for many products and cars are just one of them. There is a reason why the US produces ¼ of the worlds CO2.[/quote]
I respectfully disagree,the prices in the US are competitive, as exemplified by the profitability of the Automotive industry, and the desire of foreign automotive companies to participate in such market.
The financial problems US manufacturers had were structural, rather than market oriented, as exibited by the fact that foreign companies that were doing business in the US, did not have the same labor, structural problems and were profitable even at US prices.
Having said that I also understand the concept of "economies of scale" and the affect they have in reducing costs. But Thailand is a net exporter and should also benefit from economies of scale.
I think vehicles in Thailand are priced right at the production level, If anything the cost of means of production in Thailand are lower and should result in a less expensive product.
What make's them expensive are the taxes. So we see a vehicle produced in Thailand selling for less in the Philippines than it sells in Thailand,even after you factor in shipping and importation costs.
I Understand the thinking behind taxing of cars so high, In Thailand there is a high incidence of tax avoidance,
the thinking was that,a car is a luxury item that only rich people buy, and by placing a high tax on it they re-coupe some of the taxes that they should be receiving from these rich people and are not.
This taxation scheme is not unique to this country, I have seen it elsewhere,but it is outdated.
Cars are no longer luxuries, are necessary means of production, and any taxation on them , is a roadblock on productivity.
Fortunately they are beginning to "get it" and we see a reduction on taxes on the so called Eco Cars,
unfortunately these Eco Cars are inadequate for anything other than basic transportation.

The Suzuki Ertiga that Fredlik suggested is viable option for a people mover, I looked it up and looks nice,
Unfortunately their Spec, and standard equipment list is in Thai and I was unable to read it, It seems to be
a little bit under powered for it's weight and aerodynamics, 95 hp but a respectable 130 torque.
on paper the Anvanza seems to have the advantage with 101 hp and 133 torque, for about the same weight as the ertiga,
AS far as standard options I can't compare because I don't have an options list for the Ertiga.
As I said "On paper" I have not driven either vehicles.
I am interested in both vehicles and I look forward to hearing from some one who has a more educated opinion.
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby fredlk » Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:03 am

sirineou wrote:unfortunately these Eco Cars are inadequate for anything other than basic transportation.

My Suzuki Swift is a so-called Eco-Car and has 93 horsepower. It's a good all-round car, even on motorways. I went from a V6 Audi to this 1.2 and have not regretted it.
sirineou wrote:I don't have an options list for the Ertiga.

Extract from http://paultan.org/2012/04/20/maruti-suzuki-ertiga-launched-in-india-its-a-swift-mpv/:

Maruti Suzuki Ertiga launched in India – it’s a Swift MPV
Last week saw the launch of the Maruti Suzuki Ertiga in India. Sitting on a extended Swift platform, the Ertiga is a seven-seat MPV with a 2-3-2 seating configuration, pretty much like a Toyota Avanza.
But it’s a bigger car than the Toyota MPV. The Ertiga measures 4,265 mm long, and has a 2,740 mm wheelbase. Both figures shade the Avanza’s 4,150 mm and 2,655 mm. The second row of seats can slide back and forth, and there are 135 litres of cargo room with all seats in place, rising to 735 litres with two rows of seats folded down.
The Ertiga also debuts a new K-Series, 1,373 cc VVT engine. This K14B unit makes 95 PS and 130 Nm of torque at 4,000 rpm.


Here's an English brochure for the Indian version which is a little less luxurious than the Thai car:
http://www.autoevolution.com/car-brochures/suzuki-ertiga-brochure-2013-in.html
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:05 pm

sirineou wrote:Cars are no longer luxuries, are necessary means of production, and any taxation on them , is a roadblock on productivity.

We are so far apart in our views;
More productivity, production, consumption = good, status quo.
vs more productivity, production, consumption = wrecked world, need to change fundamental ways of doing things

So I fear any disscution, apart from being off topic and in the wrong forum, would not be helpful. :cry:
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby vanda » Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:49 pm

I'd like to add to this post after spending some time searching around the local dealerships at cars, and bare in mind this is my personal opinion, based on my thai family and their driving requirements. I found the Toyota Avanza and Suzuki Ertiga to be a waste of time as a MPV, unless you are on a tight budget and live in a city with no hills and don't plan on taking long trips and family members are rather slim and small (which most thai's are). They are both rather small cars, the Ertiga was very similar in size to the SWIFT yet has two more seats which is additional weight, without a strong engine. I'm a 6ft averaged sized man and struggled to get comfortable in the small space.
The Toyota INNOVA was a nicely proportionate vehicle and roomy, however was only a 6 seater and for a similar price you can buy a SUV with more power and more seats, I asked about having different seats installed, to which the answer was, "cannot do"... Next on the list was the HONDA FREED, I've seen a few of these getting around locally and it was a considerable option except for the power of the engine, the price was around 879,000b for the middle range model, was roomy and had 7 seats, I'm guessing they spent more money fitting electric sliding rear doors than a better engine, once again not a bad choice if you plan to drive on flat ground and shorter distances.
Next on the list was the PROTON EXORA TURBO, the high end model 1.6L T Auto, at the same price as the FREED of 879,000b was almost going to be my choice except it was only a 6 seater and once again changing seats "cannot do", there was something on the internet I found about a 5 year free service with the car, but didn't discuss it with the salesman as it most likely only involved very basic servicing.
At MITSUBISHI we only found SUV's the Pajero being the vehicle of choice, needless to say it was a great vehicle but a bit out of the price range for me at 1.3b mil.
Next stop was FORD. FORD had on offer the SUV EVEREST which wasn't too bad however it's lowest model price was just under 1 mil, still close to my price range and being considered. The alternative, which my partner likes best, is the FORD RANGER 2.2L Turbo Auto @ 839,000b. Although it is a pick-up/ute 4 door, 5 seater, the extra's being discussed are to have a hard cover canopy installed on the rear with foldable bench seats, seatbelts and air-con, being Songkran the dealership is currently closed, so we will commence deliberations in a few days.
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby pattayapope » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:18 am

vanda wrote:Next stop was FORD. FORD had on offer the SUV EVEREST which wasn't too bad however it's lowest model price was just under 1 mil, still close to my price range and being considered. The alternative, which my partner likes best, is the FORD RANGER 2.2L Turbo Auto @ 839,000b. Although it is a pick-up/ute 4 door, 5 seater, the extra's being discussed are to have a hard cover canopy installed on the rear with foldable bench seats, seatbelts and air-con, being Songkran the dealership is currently closed, so we will commence deliberations in a few days.


I think the new Ford Everst is comming out soon, it has a much better shape than the old one and similar to the Ranger, incidently I recently bought a 2.2 auto Ranger (Red) vehical OK but I think Toyota are better but the shape a bit dated now. I like the new Isuzu SUV MUX nice shape but not sure about the interior and the price.
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby vanda » Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:31 am

pattayapope wrote:
I think the new Ford Everst is comming out soon, it has a much better shape than the old one and similar to the Ranger, incidently I recently bought a 2.2 auto Ranger (Red) vehical OK but I think Toyota are better but the shape a bit dated now. I like the new Isuzu SUV MUX nice shape but not sure about the interior and the price.


I didn't know there was a new Everest being launched, new usually means pricey though. I think we might end up with the same thing, red ranger, I would also go for a Toyota, but the final decision lies with my partner as she will be driving it around most of the time and is something we've discussed, she wants to try something else, plus it looks bigger, we all know bigger is better....
Incidentally my partner has a long time family friend who is a Toyota mechanic in Bangkok, and tells her all about the prices she should be paying for repairs, any issues she may need to resolve etc, but still wants the FORD.
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Re: Family cars other than minivans

Postby MGV12 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:27 am

pattayapope wrote: incidently I recently bought a 2.2 auto Ranger (Red) vehical OK but I think Toyota are better but the shape a bit dated now.


Hi PP ... I have been looking at the Ranger [from a distance for now] and currently have a Hilux Vigo. Have also heard [media/fora] that its not quite a match for the Toyota ... as you actually own one where do you see the weaknesses?

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