Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:06 am

Of course if you don’t trust Bitcoin or dogecoin how about a few laxmicoins. Why with that one you can have a beauty treatment in Chandigarh.

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Econom ... 460177.ece

Here is the Crypto-Currency Market Capitalizations site. Argentum up 48.87% in 24 hours. :shock:

http://coinmarketcap.com/


Mike, you might be interested in what Mark Hendrickson over at Forbes had to say. I know I know it’s Forbes but to me the guy makes sense.

The Digital Currency Sideshow: Are Bitcoins Really Worth Anything

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhendric ... -anything/
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby sirineou » Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:56 am

It sounds to me like a sophisticated pyramid scheme.It is a fiat currency, but unlike other Fiat currencies it is not backed by any government or respectable entity. In fact if I understand it correctly no one knows who is really behind the scheme.
When you purchase a bitcoin, money is deducted from your account and you are awarded a certain amount of bitcoins, who determines it's conversion rate? who is in control of the algorithm? who can guaranty me that the algorithm is not manipulated? how can anyone know if it is manipulated ? Who can guaranty me that the system can not be hacked and manipulated? I don't pretend to understand a lot about it, but what little I know
makes me apprehensive,it sounds to my like a Holland tulip bubble.
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby MGV12 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:01 pm

sirineou wrote:It sounds to me like a sophisticated pyramid scheme.It is a fiat currency, but unlike other Fiat currencies it is not backed by any government or respectable entity. In fact if I understand it correctly no one knows who is really behind the scheme.
When you purchase a bitcoin, money is deducted from your account and you are awarded a certain amount of bitcoins, who determines it's conversion rate? who is in control of the algorithm? who can guaranty me that the algorithm is not manipulated? how can anyone know if it is manipulated ? Who can guaranty me that the system can not be hacked and manipulated? I don't pretend to understand a lot about it, but what little I know
makes me apprehensive,it sounds to my like a Holland tulip bubble.


Correctomundo ... nobody actually knows for sure the person who originally came up with the idea.

However, there are many bright minds [a little like Steve Jobs perhaps] who have jumped on and supercharged somebody else's bandwagon; with or without their sanction or involvement.

Bitcoins: - as with any such scheme those that got in early [who were also taking a big jump into the unknown] are currently making a fortune if they bought big; if they sell or use their Bitcoins while they are high. Bitcoin withstood the massive impact in potential when China wrote them off [Thailand writing them off didn't cause a ripple :lol: ] when China put the boot in they dropped from circa $1000 to circa $400 overnight but soon recovered and are now back at $900+. That recovery from a blow to the solar plexus is bound to seduce more folk into taking a chance. The early 'investors' bought at maybe $10 per coin and could now realise $1000. Like any such scheme it will only last as long as the mirage [if that's what it is] looks attractive. Litecoin is probably their only serious contender … the likes of dodgycoin are not taking it seriously and will not be taken seriously by sane people.

I am not interested in investing or speculating in any of them … if they are the new currency then so be it.

In the meantime I have used Bitcoin before and would again [outside Thailand of course where it’s illegal to use them :wink:] but only to get the substantial discounts [30-40%] that some [legitimate and longstanding] websites are offering if you pay with them. I have bought the Bitcoin I needed and used it immediately; to avoid the volatile fluctuations in exchange rate. All I can say is that it has worked for me so far. Just like loss-leaders in a supermarket some sellers are happy to sell at cost of below to get you hooked … by not allowing yourself to get hooked you can be a small-time winner. :D

Is it simply the next step from Gold? Bitcoin is also a limited resource; allegedly but just like Gold who really knows? Bitcoin is completely virtual ... however an increasing amount of the speculation in Gold is also virtual ... a paperwork or digital arrangement where you are actually never able to touch it.

Us simple folk can only 'catch as catch can' .... in a world where 'futures' and 'going short' and the many other 'devious' [?] opportunities are available to connected and already mega-rich assholes who are driven to make more [they don't need] whilst 'we' are forced to pay more [that 'we' can't really afford]. The digital currency manipulation era is the current way 'Empires' are fabricated ... invade and conquer without ever the need to even leave your office.

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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:35 am

MGV12 wrote:
sirineou wrote:It sounds to me like a sophisticated pyramid scheme.It is a fiat currency, but unlike other Fiat currencies it is not backed by any government or respectable entity. In fact if I understand it correctly no one knows who is really behind the scheme.
When you purchase a bitcoin, money is deducted from your account and you are awarded a certain amount of bitcoins, who determines it's conversion rate? who is in control of the algorithm? who can guaranty me that the algorithm is not manipulated? how can anyone know if it is manipulated ? Who can guaranty me that the system can not be hacked and manipulated? I don't pretend to understand a lot about it, but what little I know
makes me apprehensive,it sounds to my like a Holland tulip bubble.


Correctomundo ... nobody actually knows for sure the person who originally came up with the idea.

.


Not correct we know exactly who it was, it was the Japanese cryptographer, Satoshi Nakamoto. And it's an open source project on SourceForge.

For an in depth independent look go to https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-287.pdf on page 10. Cryptographers will tell you about the impossibility of hacking it.

There is currently a search of a landfill site going on to try to recover the hard disk containing the data of bit coins.
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby sirineou » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:17 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cryptographers will tell you about the impossibility of hacking it.


I am sure that cryptographers told Hitler that the enigma machine was impossible to crack also,
we all know how that worked out.
History is littered with the corpses of cryptographic devices and programs that have being hacked, I am sure there are some pretty clever kids some where in the Ukraine working on it right now
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby MGV12 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:53 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
MGV12 wrote:
sirineou wrote:It sounds to me like a sophisticated pyramid scheme.It is a fiat currency, but unlike other Fiat currencies it is not backed by any government or respectable entity. In fact if I understand it correctly no one knows who is really behind the scheme.
When you purchase a bitcoin, money is deducted from your account and you are awarded a certain amount of bitcoins, who determines it's conversion rate? who is in control of the algorithm? who can guaranty me that the algorithm is not manipulated? how can anyone know if it is manipulated ? Who can guaranty me that the system can not be hacked and manipulated? I don't pretend to understand a lot about it, but what little I know
makes me apprehensive,it sounds to my like a Holland tulip bubble.


Correctomundo ... nobody actually knows for sure the person who originally came up with the idea.

.


Not correct we know exactly who it was, it was the Japanese cryptographer, Satoshi Nakamoto. And it's an open source project on SourceForge.

For an in depth independent look go to https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-287.pdf on page 10. Cryptographers will tell you about the impossibility of hacking it.

There is currently a search of a landfill site going on to try to recover the hard disk containing the data of bit coins.


Sorry Jerome but I have to say 'not correct' back at you as Satoshi Nakamoto is a pseudonymous entity ... nobody knows for sure whether the mask covers a single person or a group of developers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Nakamoto

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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby BKKBILL » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:27 pm

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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby BKKBILL » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:51 pm

BLETCHLEYPARK

MACHINES BEHIND THE CODES

ENIGMA

The German military used the Enigma cipher machine during WW2 to keep their communications secret. The machine was available commercially during the 1920s, but the military potential of the device was quickly realised and the German army, navy and air force all used a more developed model of the machine to encipher their messages believing that it would make these communications impenetrable to the enemy.

The rest is at

http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/content/machines.rhtm
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:52 pm


I agree but it's later or later it will be cracked.
The exponential increase in speed have already been factored in to things like bit coin

Where encryption is being broken is in legacy use items and code that hasn't been changed because it works now and needs effort and money. When that is broken, like WPA, we slowly move on to one that is still OK like WEP.

The chance of bit coin encryption being broken in my children's lifetimes is vanishingly small.
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby BKKBILL » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:47 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:

I agree but it's later or later it will be cracked.
The exponential increase in speed have already been factored in to things like bit coin

Where encryption is being broken is in legacy use items and code that hasn't been changed because it works now and needs effort and money. When that is broken, like WPA, we slowly move on to one that is still OK like WEP.

The chance of bit coin encryption being broken in my children's lifetimes is vanishingly small.


Your probably right started to look into this closer but when it got to the total energy output of the sun since the beginning of time and/or the number of atoms I started getting a headache . Still, think I will stick to cash, as they say “Pecunia non olet”.
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby MGV12 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:37 pm

A line in the sand ------------------------------------- but not for some:

Many people will lose their [possibly] hard-earned savings with BitCoin.

Many will make and indeed are making a small or maybe mega fortune through BitCoin.

The second category are those who only invest what they are able to lose without becoming destitute.

The first category are the expendable and essential ingredient for any scam [ :?: ] to be successful.

If BitCoin is indeed real and legitimate why would the founder[s] not be on the front page of the current The Economist ... wait a minute ... maybe not the yet the front page and maybe not yet the pseudonymous founder[s] but words are being written 'The Bitcoin bubble' http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 ... ow-bitcoin

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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:55 pm

MGV12 wrote:A.

If BitCoin is indeed real and legitimate why would the founder[s] not be on the front page of the current The Economist ... wait a minute ... maybe not the yet the front page and maybe not yet the pseudonymous founder[s] but words are being written 'The Bitcoin bubble' http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 ... ow-bitcoin


Many true words. As to why it's there, it is that it is a new concept. Not the first virtual currency but the first that has been done right. As to others following, to get a truly successful follower they would have to get everything right, the ones before didn't

As for virtual currency's at least with bit coin there is an absolute limit to the number of coins that can exist. So there can be no numerical devaluation unlike the major currency's who are devaluing there money at a fantastic rate.

The value of the bit coins will always be the price a willing buyer will pay a willing seller. Governments can influence this by making the coins legal or illegal but they can not devalue it
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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby MGV12 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:57 pm

Bitcoin price slumps after Beijing bans clearing services

Value of the digital currency plummets after People's Bank of China orders third-party payment providers to stop using virtual money

Bitcoin prices in the world's second-largest economy have tumbled again after a report surfaced of the People's Bank of China ordering third-party payment providers to stop all transactions using digital currencies.

According to China Business News' website Yicai, the central bank met more than 10 third-party payment platforms in Beijing on Monday, including Alipay, which accounts for half of all online transactions in China.

The meeting was reportedly chaired by a deputy director of the bank, Zhou Jinhuang, who ordered those attending to stop giving clearing services to bitcoin, litecoin, and other cryptocurrency exchanges. If a platform is currently offering services to bitcoin exchanges, they were told to end the working relationship before the Lunar New Year at the end of January.

On the Shanghai-based BTC China exchange, bitcoin was trading at 3,251 yuan (HK$4,151) yesterday compared with 7,050 yuan on December 4. Its value dropped more than US$200, to US$707, during trading on Japan-based Mt Gox, another of the big bitcoin exchanges.

"The drop in prices is definitely due to the rumour that third-party payment services can't work with us any more," said Liu Jun, CEO of Chinese bitcoin exchange GoXBTC.

Zennon Kapron, managing director of mainland-based financial research firm Kapronasia, said if the December 5 diktat by the People's Bank of China to bar financial institutions from engaging with bitcoin was vague, then a ban on third-party clearing services was an explicit order to stop.

Rest here: http://www.scmp.com/business/banking-fi ... g-services

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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby MGV12 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:59 pm

Some appear :shock: that anyone would do such a thing ...........

Chinese Bitcoin Exchange OKCoin Accused of Faking Trading Data

OKCoin, once the second largest mainland China-based bitcoin exchange (after BTC China) according to volume, has been accused of faking its trading volume data.

The website stopped taking new deposits in the aftermath of the Chinese central bank implementing a ban disallowing banks and third-party payment services from working with bitcoin exchanges, leaving traders temporarily unable to charge their fiat currency accounts or cash out on some exchanges.

In the days following rumours of the ban, while traders panic-sold their bitcoin holdings and would-be buyers were barred from making deposits into their accounts, many were surprised to find that the trading volume on OKCoin remained unrealistically high.

The exchange rates, despite plunging, maintained levels on a par with other exchanges such as Huobi.com, which circumvented the ban by allowing traders to charge their accounts by transferring money to its CEO’s personal bank account.

http://www.coindesk.com/chinese-bitcoin ... ding-data/

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Re: Moore's Law on Steroids: Bitcoin Mining

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Dec 22, 2013 3:25 pm

MGV12,
Have you ever thought there just might be an ulterior motive behind China's banning of Bitcoin and other "untraceable" currencies from "untraceable" people. You also might like to figure in Hong Kong and the fact their private banks are all trading in it still, even though the mainland tried to ban it there as well. The US is also huffing and puffing about it too because of the "untraceable" aspect and the fact their "Reserve" bank, and I use that word lightly, is also complaining bitterly because they cannot influence it.
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