Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishes

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Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishes

Postby kmanonmaui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:13 am

I'm rapidly learning TIT, but not completely up to speed yet, so please bear with me.

My house will have the normal piers from bottom to roof. Between them I am putting metal walls and then planned on putting Shera Wall Board (http://www.sherasolution.com/en/trader/ ... 3/info/67/) to cover the entire exterior as Sheathing, followed by the normal (USA, see picture) moisture barriers, metal lath, and 2-3 coats of stucco (base to finish).

I am not finding that this is commonly done in Thailand. I am building in the Udon Area.

Questions:
1. Are the materials generally available?
2. Do *some* contractors know how to properly do this work?
3. Do you have alternate exterior finishes other than stucco that you would recommend?

Thank you all, in advance, for any insight you may be able to share.
-k-
StuccoLayers.png
StuccoLayers.png (46.49 KiB) Viewed 164 times
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:18 am

Sorry, that was not the best picture and did not show the weep screen. Here is a better example:
StuccoLayers1.png
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:37 pm

kmanonmaui wrote:I'm rapidly learning TIT, but not completely up to speed yet, so please bear with me.

My house will have the normal piers from bottom to roof. Between them I am putting metal walls and then planned on putting Shera Wall Board (http://www.sherasolution.com/en/trader/ ... 3/info/67/) to cover the entire exterior as Sheathing, followed by the normal (USA, see picture) moisture barriers, metal lath, and 2-3 coats of stucco (base to finish).

I am not finding that this is commonly done in Thailand. I am building in the Udon Area.

Questions:
1. Are the materials generally available?
2. Do *some* contractors know how to properly do this work?
3. Do you have alternate exterior finishes other than stucco that you would recommend?

Thank you all, in advance, for any insight you may be able to share.
-k-

nobody will understand "stucco" they may understand "render"

1) No
2) No
3) the standard is "Chap" cement based render usually with 2 coats base and top. However the trick is to find a good experienced team that spend enough time on the polish phase.

Neither the building paper, metal lath nor the weep screed are needed as the base isn't wood. a mental mesh is usual where different materials meet, you can see it in my build
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:21 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:

nobody will understand "stucco" they may understand "render"

1) No
2) No
3) the standard is "Chap" cement based render usually with 2 coats base and top. However the trick is to find a good experienced team that spend enough time on the polish phase.

Neither the building paper, metal lath nor the weep screed are needed as the base isn't wood. a mental mesh is usual where different materials meet, you can see it in my build[/quote]

Good to know. Thank you much again. So, just to be sure I understand, after applying the Shera Wall Board I would then apply the "chap" as you mentioned above, should I be lucky enough to find the right team, correct?
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:27 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
kmanonmaui wrote:I'm rapidly learning TIT, but not completely up to speed yet, so please bear with me.

My house will have the normal piers from bottom to roof. Between them I am putting metal walls and then planned on putting Shera Wall Board (http://www.sherasolution.com/en/trader/ ... 3/info/67/) to cover the entire exterior as Sheathing, followed by the normal (USA, see picture) moisture barriers, metal lath, and 2-3 coats of stucco (base to finish).

I am not finding that this is commonly done in Thailand. I am building in the Udon Area.

Questions:
1. Are the materials generally available?
2. Do *some* contractors know how to properly do this work?
3. Do you have alternate exterior finishes other than stucco that you would recommend?

Thank you all, in advance, for any insight you may be able to share.
-k-

nobody will understand "stucco" they may understand "render"

1) No
2) No
3) the standard is "Chap" cement based render usually with 2 coats base and top. However the trick is to find a good experienced team that spend enough time on the polish phase.

Neither the building paper, metal lath nor the weep screed are needed as the base isn't wood. a mental mesh is usual where different materials meet, you can see it in my build


I don't seem to be very good at getting the quotes down correctly, but here is my q. again:

Good to know. Thank you much again. So, just to be sure I understand, after applying the Shera Wall Board I would then apply the "chap" as you mentioned above, should I be lucky enough to find the right team, correct?
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:51 pm

Alright...I think I am going to "shit-can" the whole idea, use concrete up to the roof and use concrete headers over the windows. I didn't see anyplace in your pictures where you used the Shera board on the exterior...and I've got enough room to go ahead and put in a metal wall making up the difference between the Piers/Columns and the 8" wall so that I have flush interior walls, insulation, a place to run water, electric and drainage and, more importantly, availability of people to do the job. After fighting this, it actually makes sense now and will likely save me money anyway.

Thanks for getting me back on track again. Now, to tackle H-Beams :-)
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:18 pm

kmanonmaui wrote:Alright...I think I am going to "shit-can" the whole idea, use concrete up to the roof and use concrete headers over the windows. I didn't see anyplace in your pictures where you used the Shera board on the exterior...and I've got enough room to go ahead and put in a metal wall making up the difference between the Piers/Columns and the 8" wall so that I have flush interior walls, insulation, a place to run water, electric and drainage and, more importantly, availability of people to do the job. After fighting this, it actually makes sense now and will likely save me money anyway.

Thanks for getting me back on track again. Now, to tackle H-Beams :-)

I was talking about using metal mesh to bridge areas where there is a change in material, this will stop the render cracking on the join. You will find it easy to find workers who understand AAC block, it is very fast to put up and you can probably get 75mm blocks at about 15Baht each.

Your metal wall could easily be considerably more expensive and perform less well than a second AAC block wall.

you can see that mine has all the services in it.

As to H or I beams again take a look at our build for a mixture of H beams I beams and trusses.

you will not be able to get beams longer than 6 metres, Our builder got the best price from the steel shop on Nittayo road about 100 to 200 metres before the ring road coming into Udon.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:29 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
kmanonmaui wrote:Alright...I think I am going to "shit-can" the whole idea, use concrete up to the roof and use concrete headers over the windows. I didn't see anyplace in your pictures where you used the Shera board on the exterior...and I've got enough room to go ahead and put in a metal wall making up the difference between the Piers/Columns and the 8" wall so that I have flush interior walls, insulation, a place to run water, electric and drainage and, more importantly, availability of people to do the job. After fighting this, it actually makes sense now and will likely save me money anyway.

Thanks for getting me back on track again. Now, to tackle H-Beams :-)

I was talking about using metal mesh to bridge areas where there is a change in material, this will stop the render cracking on the join. You will find it easy to find workers who understand AAC block, it is very fast to put up and you can probably get 75mm blocks at about 15Baht each.

Your metal wall could easily be considerably more expensive and perform less well than a second AAC block wall.

you can see that mine has all the services in it.

Ah, I understand now. So just the Shera board and then the mesh in-between the columns? Sounds like it would be difficult to get it flush, but probably do able...but given the time I've been spinning my head [url]assuming[/url] I was going to do a normal US stucco exterior, I think it now eases my mind to just run the block up in between the columns.

While a second AAC block wall sounds good, I like the flexibility of subsequently adding/changing water/electric/etc. running up from the basement into the metal wall covered with the Shera board as it means a quick drywall patch. I'll need to Google on the second block wall's with spacing added R value as compared to a metal wall with fiberglass insulation. But, so far you have not steered me wrong and gotten me back to realities, so I will look at both options.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:53 pm

kmanonmaui wrote:Ah, I understand now. So just the Shera board and then the mesh in-between the columns? Sounds like it would be difficult to get it flush, but probably do able...but given the time I've been spinning my head [url]assuming[/url] I was going to do a normal US stucco exterior, I think it now eases my mind to just run the block up in between the columns.


Well you might be able to do it that way "So just the Shera board and then the mesh in-between the columns? "

But no, AAC block wall with mesh on changes from AAC to concrete column, door frame & window frame.

You really need to abandon any ideas you have got about using "normal US" building methods. They are not normal here, nobody understands them.

While if you are prepared to throw large amounts of money (2 to 6 times the Thai cost, probably more than the US cost even) at the build you may get people to do what you want but even then it will probably get screwed up.

If you know precisely how each stage must be done, you are on site 100% of the time, speak perfect Thai (or have someone who has as deep an understanding of the technical aspects of the build as you do who speaks perfect Thai and English) you have a chance. You will be firing builders often, maybe every week.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:12 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:Well you might be able to do it that way "So just the Shera board and then the mesh in-between the columns? "

But no, AAC block wall with mesh on changes from AAC to concrete column, door frame & window frame.

You really need to abandon any ideas you have got about using "normal US" building methods. They are not normal here, nobody understands them.

While if you are prepared to throw large amounts of money (2 to 6 times the Thai cost) at the build you may get people to do what you want but even then it will probably get screwed up.

If you know precisely how each stage must be done, you are on site 100% of the time, speak perfect Thai (or have someone who has as deep an understanding of the technical aspects of the build as you do who speaks perfect Thai and English) you have a chance. You will be firing builders often, may be every week.

Oh, I am quickly abandoning them now, I assure you. But understanding what the alternatives are is the hard part...so all of my assumptions must be looked at, knowledge gained, advice sought and adjusted accordingly.

Yes, based upon previous advice from you we (my Thai wife and I) were on site 100% of the time for the basement build and then, when it was time to go back to the US, put a temp. room on top of it. During the 2 months it took to build the basement we fired not only some of the contractor's workers, but the contractor himself and the engineer at the end. We still ended up with some items I would have liked to be better, but I absolutely know it would have been a total disaster if I wasn't there every day. Just a quick list of what would have been done wrong he I not been there: Foundation would have been a full meter too low, Footing would have been 1/3 shorter and less wide, Rebar would not have been put in enough cells nor running horizontally at all, Horizontal rebar would not have been tied into the Posts/Pillars, Basement slab rebar and wire would all be sitting on the bottom of the slab instead of in the middle, Rebar in the walls would not have been doubled up / overlapping between the two 1.5 meter solid grout pours, waterproofing would have been a total joke...no way it would have worked...even though I'm still not sure it will now. But, my mother-in-law went to look inside today with the roofer and said no moisture present and no indication (water lines) on walls indicating any moisture has built up since we left. She said that they have had a lot of rain the past two weeks and two heavy days just before she looked...so fingers crossed.

The AAC block is sounding very interesting. It does quite a bit for the R value, as you indicated. http://www.concreteconstruction.net/bus ... with-aac_o

Thank you as always for your sound advice.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:20 pm

kmanonmaui wrote:Oh, I am quickly abandoning them now, I assure you. But understanding what the alternatives are is the hard part...so all of my assumptions must be looked at, knowledge gained, advice sought and adjusted accordingly.

Strange as it may seem I worked for a US building company named Norhshore Homes in Washington State for 7 months whilst the owner (ex Air Force) died of cancer. My main task was to advise on drainage, due to the owner's son buying land that sat on an aquifer, so I know most of the US building terms as I used their crews to dig the drains, place rocks, haul rocks and then capped it all with thick corrugated galvanised iron.
The easy solution I found was to take along my wife or daughter each time I visited the Or Bor tor or Tesaban engineer with the plans. As I explained what I was going to do using Australian terms, he would write down the whole lot in Thai after a convoluted explanation by wife and daughter. The plans were then handed back to the draftsman who in turn changed all the roughs into Thai so the builder could read them. It seems to have worked.
I also supplied everyone with a level and tape measure, along with leather gloves, safety goggles and pasted plans on each wall as the build progressed.
I also demonstrated to the builder's workers how I wanted it done, exactly. They came pretty close, but I was on site every day and I checked everything I could. If I left to order material they just reverted to their old ways, which meant ripping it down when I got back.
You misunderstand about the steel mesh. We call it chicken wire and it's place on the concrete columns and beams to overlap onto the Superblock (AAC), so that when they render with the superblock (AAC) render it will bind to the chicken wire that is nailed on with concrete nails to both the different materials.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:49 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:You misunderstand about the steel mesh. We call it chicken wire and it's place on the concrete columns and beams to overlap onto the Superblock (AAC), so that when they render with the superblock (AAC) render it will bind to the chicken wire that is nailed on with concrete nails to both the different materials.
Hope that helps.


If I follow, either you are saying:
1. the mesh/chicken wire is only placed overlapping the seams between the AAC block and the columns or;
2. the mesh/chicken wire is place over the entire AAC block and overlaps the seams between the AAC block and the columns as well.

I'm not 100% sure which you are saying is correct.

Will rendering over AAC block make the exterior waterproof?

Then, if I follow, I can decide between running a second set of AAC block for the interior, providing a gap as Jerome did to run utilities, or opt for a metal wall.

Thanks.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:46 am

kmanonmaui wrote:
Roger Ramjet wrote:You misunderstand about the steel mesh. We call it chicken wire and it's place on the concrete columns and beams to overlap onto the Superblock (AAC), so that when they render with the superblock (AAC) render it will bind to the chicken wire that is nailed on with concrete nails to both the different materials.
Hope that helps.


If I follow, either you are saying:
1. the mesh/chicken wire is only placed overlapping the seams between the AAC block and the columns or;
2. the mesh/chicken wire is place over the entire AAC block and overlaps the seams between the AAC block and the columns as well.

I'm not 100% sure which you are saying is correct.

Will rendering over AAC block make the exterior waterproof?

Then, if I follow, I can decide between running a second set of AAC block for the interior, providing a gap as Jerome did to run utilities, or opt for a metal wall.

Thanks.


http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4890&start=195

March 10th And 13th in my build show that 1. Is what we mean. And you must use stainless steel mesh. A wide crown staple gun will make things go fast. AAC block is similar to wood in many ways, you can use quite a few different woodworking tools like saws and chisels, it accepts staples and the best way to attach conduit clips is to use long drywall screws.

AAC is waterproof, the render gets painted and that is also sufficiently waterproof.

Fitting utility's in the wall
http://meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-of-photos/New_house/Pages/February.html
Last edited by Sometimewoodworker on Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby kmanonmaui » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:52 am

Thanks much...so many photos to go through that helps me narrow down the search.

Also looking at the plans I had Rungruang put together for me, he has lap siding between the posts. Maybe I should quit second guessing his design :shock:

I see that Shera also has a nice choice of exterior lap and shiplap boards...getting my head straight is starting to hurt but I do appreciate all of the advice received.
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Re: Stucco (Thai) vs. Stucco (USA) or Other Exterior Finishe

Postby sirineou » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:00 pm

When I first got to Thailand I made the same inquiries, trying to stay with what I know and what I was comfortable with.
it is a natural response
If you look at some of my early posts you will see questions about 2x4 lumber, metal studs, drywall , etc. The good people in this forum were very patient with me and took time to answer my questions and make a few good points. In time I learned " when in Rome, do as the Romans do"
I suggest you read the different "my build" threads (very entertaining) and as you learn more about building techniques here in Thailand get more comfortable with them .
In an other life , I was involved in the Real Estate business, as a broker in a Century 21 franchise for about 6 years until I got bored with it.
The first thing I learned in the numerous sales seminars I attended was " Build for the market you are in" . You dont want to build a mansion in the slams, or a shack in Beverly Hills.
In Florida, you want to build a concrete block home, in New York stick build. And there are reasons for that .
A neighbor of mine in NY was adding to his house . willy nilly, with no building permits, when this was commented on , and told that if he ever wanted to sell he would have problems he replied , " I dont care I will die in this house" . and indeed he did die in that house , only sooner than he had thought leaving his poor wife with an albatross she could not sell.
IN Thailand , for what ever reasons. there are true and tried building techniques that conform to realities on the ground. My advise to you is stay with them.
I talk to my self because I am the only one who will listen
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