Custom made furniture

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Custom made furniture

Postby basjke » Tue May 19, 2015 10:46 am

I have some furniture made in the style as the picture. This will be mainly teak plywood with the frame and edges in full wood.

When making the panels I notice they make a frame and apply 4mm plywood to each side, so the biggest part of the panel is actually hollow.

My thought were that it was full wood, not teak wood of course, to which the 4mm ply was glued. The furniture maker explained to me that this isn't done because it would make the cabinet too heavy and he claims that all furniture, including the one in the picture, are made that way.

He however agree to use full plates of 20mm plywood instead of a frame at an extra cost of 20% or MDF panels at 10% extra

My questions are as follow.

Is it advisable that I request the full plates, and pay the extra for it, or will it indeed make the cabinet too heavy and is the way they usually do it sufficient?

Will it add any value or quality to the cabinet, or is it pure psychological?

Would MDF be too risky due to the fact that it can expand when contact with water, knowing that all sides will be covered by 4mm teak ply.

buddy-decoration-furniture-pattaya-plywood-ancient-slope-cabinet-02.jpg
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue May 19, 2015 6:18 pm

basjke wrote:I have some furniture made in the style as the picture. This will be mainly teak plywood with the frame and edges in full wood.

When making the panels I notice they make a frame and apply 4mm plywood to each side, so the biggest part of the panel is actually hollow.

My thought were that it was full wood, not teak wood of course, to which the 4mm ply was glued. The furniture maker explained to me that this isn't done because it would make the cabinet too heavy and he claims that all furniture, including the one in the picture, are made that way.

He however agree to use full plates of 20mm plywood instead of a frame at an extra cost of 20% or MDF panels at 10% extra

My questions are as follow.


basjke wrote:Is it advisable that I request the full plates, and pay the extra for it, or will it indeed make the cabinet too heavy and is the way they usually do it sufficient?

It's a little difficult to answer your question, because I really don't understand what you mean by full plates. The doors and ends are what is called frame and raised panel construction, and the rest of the cabinet doesn't have any big panels in it. Making raised panels the way you suggest is quite difficult so I don't know where they would use hollow core.

basjke wrote:Will it add any value or quality to the cabinet, or is it pure psychological?
Personally I wouldn't use the kind of construction that they're talking about. It just feels cheap to me. If they are using a really good quality 20 mm plywood then it's costing about 1200 baht per square metre so with the usual markup they are just covering costs.

basjke wrote:Would MDF be too risky due to the fact that it can expand when contact with water, knowing that all sides will be covered by 4mm teak ply.

Using MDF panels isn't a problem. Because if you ever get water that covers the panels the whole thing is trashed anyway whatever it's made from.
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Klondyke » Wed May 20, 2015 9:46 am

20 mm plywood (unless it is not a chipboard) is almost of the same weight as 20 mm solid wood (teak, oak, etc) that usually these pieces are made of (but the quality and lifetime?).

Attaching an example of similar chest by oak.

Image
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby basjke » Wed May 20, 2015 9:55 am

Klondyke wrote:20 mm plywood (unless it is not a chipboard) is almost of the same weight as 20 mm solid wood (teak, oak, etc) that usually these pieces are made of (but the quality and lifetime?).

Attaching an example of similar chest by oak.

Image


Can you please explain your point. I take it that cabinet in the picture is solid oak , a similar cabinet in Thailand will look identical but will consist mainly out of sandwich panels.

So is it an improvement if I replace the hollow parts in those sandwich panels with solid plywood?
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed May 20, 2015 11:55 am

Klondyke wrote:20 mm plywood (unless it is not a chipboard) is almost of the same weight as 20 mm solid wood (teak, oak, etc) that usually these pieces are made of (but the quality and lifetime?).

Image


Your reply is rather confusing :shock:
Klondyke wrote:20 mm plywood (unless it is not a chipboard)

Humm:
Plywood is a sheet material manufactured from thin layers or "plies" of wood veneer that are glued together with adjacent layers [usually] having their wood grain rotated up to 90 degrees to one another.

U.S.: Chipboard, A type of paperboard generally made from reclaimed paper stock; the term generally used in the US

The rest of the world
Chipboard, is an engineered wood product manufactured from wood chips, sawmill shavings, or even sawdust, and a synthetic resin or other suitable binder, which is pressed and extruded. U.S. Particleboard

A piece of plywood weighs approximately 600kgs per m³. The calculation is: Length x Width x Height x 600.
A sheet of 25mm chipboard is commonly about 48kg
A sheet of 25mm plywood is commonly about 43kg
Both weights are variable depending on the wood species used and binders, and can be up to 50% lower with specialist plywoods. So the weight is usually similar.

The construction of the chest you show is quite different, and much simpler/cheaper to make,
The door and draw panels are flat not raised, the mouldings around them could easily hide poorly made panels, the ends are plain not using raised panels, the top looks as if it has been attached to the vertical panels with plugged screws or dowels. It could easily be made with hollow sections.
The picture that basjke posted would be much more difficult to make from hollow section as the only large flat areas, apart from the top and shelves are raised panels
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Klondyke » Wed May 20, 2015 1:10 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Your reply is rather confusing :shock:
Klondyke wrote:20 mm plywood (unless it is not a chipboard)



Without getting into a longer discussion (and arguments), what I wanted to say: For Thai people a plywood or a chipboard is always MaiArt, so any detail is MaiPenRai unless it is not very clear.

Anyway, these things are made here either by a solid wood (mostly teak) or a (teak) plywood on a skelet (carcass) made from a wood of uncertain species. The prices are very different, depends on what style the maker prefers (not the buyer).
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby basjke » Wed May 20, 2015 1:21 pm

Klondyke wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Your reply is rather confusing :shock:
Klondyke wrote:20 mm plywood (unless it is not a chipboard)



Without getting into a longer discussion (and arguments), what I wanted to say: For Thai people a plywood or a chipboard is always MaiArt, so any detail is MaiPenRai unless it is not very clear.

Anyway, these things are made here either by a solid wood (mostly teak) or a (teak) plywood on a skelet (carcass) made from a wood of uncertain species. The prices are very different, depends on what style the maker prefers (not the buyer).


So we getting to the point. Will it make sense to pay a premium to have the carcass replaced by a solid plank of plywood?

plywood.jpg
plywood.jpg (12.65 KiB) Viewed 333 times
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Klondyke » Wed May 20, 2015 6:07 pm

basjke wrote:So we getting to the point. Will it make sense to pay a premium to have the carcass replaced by a solid plank of plywood?


a "solid plank of plywood" is rather confusing. "Solid" is understood always as a real wood, not a plywood.

Such a style of the chest you are showing is in Thailand made always by a solid wood (mostly by teak). However, it needs to be checked whether the wood is properly dried, what the village craftsmen usually do not have.

It surely could be made also by a thick plywood (quite unusual in Thailand), however, not sure about moulded decoration and all the edges details.
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby basjke » Wed May 20, 2015 6:53 pm

Klondyke wrote:
basjke wrote:So we getting to the point. Will it make sense to pay a premium to have the carcass replaced by a solid plank of plywood?


a "solid plank of plywood" is rather confusing. "Solid" is understood always as a real wood, not a plywood.

Such a style of the chest you are showing is in Thailand made always by a solid wood (mostly by teak). However, it needs to be checked whether the wood is properly dried, what the village craftsmen usually do not have.

It surely could be made also by a thick plywood (quite unusual in Thailand), however, not sure about moulded decoration and all the edges details.


I don't know if you are pulling my leg or can't see pictures, but I included a picture of several planks of plywood, only to make clear what I'm talking about.On both sides of the 2 cm plywood they put a layer of 4 mm ( sometimes 6mm) teak ply.

And no these kind of cabinets are not always made in solid teak, in fact the cabinet in the OP is confirmed by the manufacturer that it is teak plywood.I also doubt that it would be solid teak at 15.000 Baht for a cabinet 1.60m x 0.70 x 0.50
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed May 20, 2015 8:22 pm

basjke wrote:
Klondyke wrote:
basjke wrote:So we getting to the point. Will it make sense to pay a premium to have the carcass replaced by a solid plank of plywood?


a "solid plank of plywood" is rather confusing. "Solid" is understood always as a real wood, not a plywood.

Such a style of the chest you are showing is in Thailand made always by a solid wood (mostly by teak). However, it needs to be checked whether the wood is properly dried, what the village craftsmen usually do not have.

It surely could be made also by a thick plywood (quite unusual in Thailand), however, not sure about moulded decoration and all the edges details.


I don't know if you are pulling my leg or can't see pictures, but I included a picture of several planks of plywood, only to make clear what I'm talking about.On both sides of the 2 cm plywood they put a layer of 4 mm ( sometimes 6mm) teak ply.

And no these kind of cabinets are not always made in solid teak, in fact the cabinet in the OP is confirmed by the manufacturer that it is teak plywood.I also doubt that it would be solid teak at 15.000 Baht for a cabinet 1.60m x 0.70 x 0.50

There seems to be some confusion going on here.

If you are going to get the style of cabinet that you show the picture of then I don't see where the hollow part comes in.

The door, and end panel, rails and styles should be solid wood.
It is difficult to impossible to make the raised panels hollow (those in the centre if the doors, draws, and end panels.
The only places you could easily use hollow construction are in the 2 vertical interior ends to the end boxes, the 2 shelves, and the top.

However if the hollow parts are as I speculate then getting them to make those from a solid plank of plywood will probably increase the lifetime of the piece (and are how I would build it), though resale values of used furniture are probably close to 0.

Making the raised panels out of veneered plywood is a challenge and if that is what they are doing then the craftsmanship is very good if the picture is accurate. If the raised panels are made from solid wood you will need to make sure that they aren't glued to the rails and style as the will need to float to allow for seasonal expansion and contraction.

If you can get some pictures (closer and interiors of the draws and end storage and door backs) of a piece that they would actually sell rather than the one they use on the website I might be able to give a better answer.
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby basjke » Wed May 20, 2015 9:00 pm

I don't have any other pictures, but http://www.furniturepattaya.com/products-page/tv-cabinet/ancient-slope-cabinet/ and you will see the cabinet from the OP.

It is clearly stated " The product from plywood", there are other on the site which are solid and/or mixed, and I have never seen a businessman who says his product is lower quality than it actually is.
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed May 20, 2015 9:27 pm

basjke wrote:I don't have any other pictures, but http://www.furniturepattaya.com/products-page/tv-cabinet/ancient-slope-cabinet/ and you will see the cabinet from the OP.

It is clearly stated " The product from plywood", there are other on the site which are solid and/or mixed, and I have never seen a businessman who says his product is lower quality than it actually is.


I am talking from the viewpoint of someone who makes the stuff not from a copywriter on a website.
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby basjke » Wed May 20, 2015 9:30 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
basjke wrote:I don't have any other pictures, but http://www.furniturepattaya.com/products-page/tv-cabinet/ancient-slope-cabinet/ and you will see the cabinet from the OP.

It is clearly stated " The product from plywood", there are other on the site which are solid and/or mixed, and I have never seen a businessman who says his product is lower quality than it actually is.


I am talking from the viewpoint of someone who makes the stuff not from a copywriter on a website.


Mate, I have been to the shop and spoken with the owner. I have a desk at my home which has the same style doors, with the raised panel, and behind the panel is hollow.
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Klondyke » Wed May 20, 2015 9:42 pm

basjke wrote:
Klondyke wrote:
basjke wrote:So we getting to the point. Will it make sense to pay a premium to have the carcass replaced by a solid plank of plywood?


a "solid plank of plywood" is rather confusing. "Solid" is understood always as a real wood, not a plywood.

Such a style of the chest you are showing is in Thailand made always by a solid wood (mostly by teak). However, it needs to be checked whether the wood is properly dried, what the village craftsmen usually do not have.

It surely could be made also by a thick plywood (quite unusual in Thailand), however, not sure about moulded decoration and all the edges details.


I don't know if you are pulling my leg or can't see pictures, but I included a picture of several planks of plywood, only to make clear what I'm talking about.On both sides of the 2 cm plywood they put a layer of 4 mm ( sometimes 6mm) teak ply.

And no these kind of cabinets are not always made in solid teak, in fact the cabinet in the OP is confirmed by the manufacturer that it is teak plywood.I also doubt that it would be solid teak at 15.000 Baht for a cabinet 1.60m x 0.70 x 0.50


I am sorry that I was answering your question, you call it "pulling my leg"?

Your picture shows diferent styles and constructions of plywood, this is not a solid wood, I am sorry.

Anyway, forgive me for your leg, thanks for your questions, it was my pleasure, good luck...
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Re: Custom made furniture

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed May 20, 2015 9:45 pm

basjke wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
basjke wrote:I don't have any other pictures, but http://www.furniturepattaya.com/products-page/tv-cabinet/ancient-slope-cabinet/ and you will see the cabinet from the OP.

It is clearly stated " The product from plywood", there are other on the site which are solid and/or mixed, and I have never seen a businessman who says his product is lower quality than it actually is.


I am talking from the viewpoint of someone who makes the stuff not from a copywriter on a website.


Mate, I have been to the shop and spoken with the owner. I have a desk at my home which has the same style doors, with the raised panel, and behind the panel is hollow.

So then you have your own answers. Do you feel that the doors are solid enough? If so then don't pay extra. If not then pay the extra.

I would be interested to see the construction methods.
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