Do you like cheese and butter?

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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:40 pm

BKKBILL wrote:Guess vegetarians will soon be able to eat meat and still be vegetarians or is this the extinction of us as a carnivorous species. Just asking.


It's a cunning plan Bill




As one of those who converted [reverted?] to being vegetarian you might expect me to pose the question:

Are we indeed carnivores in the first place?

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

There are of course alternative views ... [if I had eaten a lot of red meat I might say "bring them on!"] ... however, having been a vege for 27 years I have probably heard them all but it doesn't bother me ... as I chose to go my own way of my own volition 8)

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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby sirineou » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:25 pm

We are certainly not carnivores, since we eat things other than meat, and we are certainly nor herbivores, since we eat meat.
Hence we are Omnivores (especially true for Thais :lol: ). one walk through any of your food mega stores will confirm that.
The article posted by MGV is incorrect. we might arguably be badly designed omnivores , but we are omnivores non the less. :)
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:46 am

sirineou wrote:We are certainly not carnivores, since we eat things other than meat, and we are certainly nor herbivores, since we eat meat.
Hence we are Omnivores (especially true for Thais :lol: ). one walk through any of your food mega stores will confirm that.
The article posted by MGV is incorrect. we might arguably be badly designed omnivores , but we are omnivores non the less. :)


In practice the majority of us certainly are omnivorous ... I eat fish and prawn and so am not myself a strict herbivore. The article was opinion on what we were 'designed' to be by the great designer.

A couple of friends over the years ate very little other than meat ... both had serious health issues.

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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:15 am

One of many myths exposed ... there will be more to come in due course.

Disclaimer: :P I generally support the opinions of the author of this article but ... as I did not write it ... cannot be held responsible nor would I accept responsibility for any actions that readers might take as a result of reading it. If in any doubt consult a qualified medical practitioner before making dietary changes ... especially if you are on prescription medications. :) The author is an award-winning [whatever that means] investigative journalist [so they do still exist!] and there are no links to the studies mentioned ... however with the wonders of Google [other search engines available and possibly more appropriate] YCDYOR quite easily.


At last, the truth: Butter is GOOD for you - and margarine is chemical gunk

We have been conned into believing margarine was better for us than butter

The scientific evidence is totally at odds with decades of official advice

The profit-grabbing manufacturers have never been prepared to admit

By Joanna Blythman

PUBLISHED: 00:52 GMT, 7 February 2013 | UPDATED: 07:49 GMT, 7 February 2013

Like my grandmother before me, I have never had a tub of margarine in the house. Perhaps thanks to her, my gut instinct has always told me that butter is better for you.

Not only does butter taste incomparably better, it's a natural product that human beings have been eating and cooking with for centuries without ­damaging their health.

Why swap it for margarine, a highly synthetic and unpleasant-tasting concoction laced with additives and cheap, low-grade oils refined on an industrial scale?

Especially, if I tell you that without colourings margarine isn't yellow at all, but actually an appetite-crushing shade of sludgy grey.

If my preference for butter began with instinct, in the past few years it's been supported by a growing body of scientific research that not only indicates that there is absolutely no reason to stop eating ­butter, but also leads to one inescapable conclusion: that decades of government health advice, particularly in regard to heart disease, cholesterol levels and the consumption of fats and oils, have been plain wrong.

It's so wrong, in fact, that I believe the health establishment now owes us an apology.

We have been conned into believing that margarine was better for us than butter. The nation's morning toast has been ruined for decades by kind-hearted women thinking they were doing the best for their ­husbands and children by switching from butter to marge.

Confronted with such a bleak, butter-free future, there will be many who will have wondered whether life was even worth living.

That is why the latest news from scientists working in the U.S. will have been greeted with loud cheers at breakfast tables all over Britain — and, at mine, by a vehement 'I told you so!'

For, having reanalysed a study originally carried out in the late Sixties and early Seventies, the scientists have confirmed what many of us have believed to be the truth for years.

Margarine isn't better for you than butter. In fact, margarine is ­actually more damaging to your health than butter.

The scientific evidence is compelling and totally at odds with decades of official advice that we should all be cutting down on our consumption of animal fats.

Taking a sample of middle-aged Australian men who had either experienced a heart attack or ­suffered from angina, half were advised to cut their animal fat intake and replace it with safflower oil (which is similar to sunflower oil) and safflower oil margarine, while the other half continued to eat as normal.

If the unholy alliance of Government nutritionists and the food processing industry were right — and margarine really was better for you, as they've been claiming for decades — you'd expect the men who switched to safflower oil to live longer and have better health outcomes.

The exact opposite turned out to be true. Those who ate more of the safflower-derived products were almost twice as likely to die from all causes, including heart disease.

Suddenly, margarine isn't looking the healthy option that those expensive marketing campaigns claim it to be.

For a start, the once widely accepted wisdom that saturated fats are bad for you — an idea on which so much health advice is founded — is looking increasingly shaky.

So fast is the shift in scientific thinking that there is a growing belief that natural saturated fats — like those contained in dairy and meat, as opposed to those ­contained in marge — may actually turn out to be good for you.

Certainly, these fats have already been identified as key components of cell membranes, essential for the production of ­certain ­hormones and having an important role to play in the transport and absorption of certain vitamins and minerals.

Indeed, earlier this week, a meta-study (a study of studies, if you like) from America, covering almost 350,000 people, came to the sort of shock conclusion that a few years earlier would have made front-page news.

Now, however, it merely confirmed what a growing body of scientific opinion already believes — that there is, and never was, any good evidence linking intake of dietary saturated fats with blocked coronary arteries and heart disease.

It was, of course, in the belief that the exact opposite was true that millions of us were persuaded to give up butter and switch to margarine. Now, perhaps, you see why our public health advisers should be in the dock explaining themselves.

For so much of what we were told was gospel truth turns out to be plain wrong. Butter isn't bad for you; in fact, it's healthy, being high in vitamins, beneficial saturated fats, the sort of cholesterol that is vital for brain and nervous system development and various natural compounds with anti-fungal, anti-oxidant and even anti-cancer properties.

Margarine, by contrast, has always been much worse for you than its profit-grabbing manufacturers have ever been prepared to admit.

In the early days, it was made with 'hydrogenated fats', which were so dense that solid concrete couldn't have done a better job of blocking your coronary arteries. Honestly, this stuff was lethal.

Confronted with irrefutable ­evidence, the food-processing giants reluctantly went back to their laboratories and reformulated their product.

This time, they boasted, ­margarine would be made with 'interesterified' vegetable oils (a treatment that re­arranges the fat molecules under high temperature and pressure, using enzymes or acids as catalysts).

It made the oils less dense and therefore, they hoped, less ­damaging to our health.

Why we should believe the manufacturers a second time around I haven't a clue — especially as they never took responsibility for the tremendous damage they had done to global health with their hydrogenated fats — which are now banned in parts of the U.S. because of the concerns about the effects they have on our health.

The best part of 20 years on, the components of margarine, or 'spreads' as food processors prefer to call them, may have changed, but the arguments over their impact on health have not.

Take the so-called cholesterol-busting spreads such as Benecol and Flora ProActiv. Yes, they use plant chemicals — sterols and stanols — to reduce cholesterol ­levels, but they do so at a time when long-held beliefs on cholesterol are beginning to look as shaky as those about saturated fats.

There is emerging scientific evidence that overall health ­prospects may be better for ­individuals with above-average ­levels of cholesterol.

Once again, beliefs that have shaped official health diktats for decades are being turned on their head. More research urgently needs to be done, but that apology should precede it. 'We got it wrong — sorry,' would be a good start.

As for the so-called hybrid spreads, such as Lurpak Spreadable, for example — well, butter mixed with a little vegetable oil may be conveniently spreadable, but is fairly pointless in a country where, for most of the year, butter is spreadable when kept at room ­temperature in a good, old-­fashioned butter dish.

So the good news is that we can carry on eating butter (in moderation, of course) or even start eating it again if we were one of the millions duped into swapping it for unhealthy and unpalatable margarine.

But as we do, our faith in the ­official health agencies that shape our nation's health policies is melting away faster than . . . well, butter off a hot knife.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... z2YW87MZEH

Of course in this day and age there will always be an alternative put forward:

http://www.spreadthefacts.com.au/all-ab ... tions.html

The 'author' could be considered as having a vested interest. They undoubtedly employ 'scientists' to come up with their opinion ... hence the reason the truth is often hard to establish.

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:54 pm

MGV12,
I can actually recall when this "debate" started when I was younger. In those days "they" said that margarine was a cheaper alternative and "spreadable". In actual fact margarine was cheaper, just. It did spread easier which did save money, just. I also remember kids giving away their sandwiches at lunchtime because their mums used margarine, because it did taste crap. To be honest it was a slick well oiled campaign by the manufacturers of margarine aimed at housewives, with the backing of certain scientists at the time. Whether they were employed by the companies is really irrelevant, because at the time there were the scare mungers all advocating that cow's milk was dangerous and caused heart attacks, and we all know that cheese and butter comes from cows and the Australian government had just implemented "the pint of milk a day" policy. Along with that nutritionists were divided, as they still are, with one side saying anything that came from cows contained bad cholesterol and the other side saying it was good cholesterol because it contain certain oils the body must have.
All this talk about poly and polyunsaturated fats was debated by people who really knew little about what the body needed because science hadn't come that far then, and, as I said there were two camps. The fact that this study was actually carried out in the 60s and 70s makes me wonder exactly how many mythes are out there, influenced by scientists in the pay of companies who have prostituted themselves to those companies. Perhaps it is time to revisit some other mythes out there.
Butter tastes better, butter is better. Which chef in their right mind would use margarine? Give me cream and butter in my mashed spuds I say, not water and margarine. And how a Yorkshire pud rise without butter and milk? Imagine putting margarine into a prawn fettuccine. Next those wowsers will want us to remove the cheese from our pizza or spaghetti bolognese. Or heaven forbid, forgetting to put butter and cheese on a Welsh Rarebit, now that would be something.
I am in complete agreement with the article, the public have been hoodwinked enough. Now watch the slick well oiled campaigns that try and manipulate the findings......all aimed at housewives.
Next they'll want us to become vegetarians. :D :D :D
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:06 pm

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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:04 pm

What is the point of having a cheese and butter thread without bread, I asked myself as the delicious smell of freshly baked bread permeated throughout the house. So without further ado here's the photos:
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:08 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:What is the point of having a cheese and butter thread without bread, I asked myself as the delicious smell of freshly baked bread permeated throughout the house. So without further ado here's the photos:


Certainly has the looks! Ingredients?

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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:53 pm

MGV12,
MGV12 wrote:Ingredients?

Water 320ml
oil 2 TBL
Salt 1 tsp
sugar or honey 2 TBL
milk 2 1/2 TBL
White flour 600g
yeast 1 tsp
I'm just experimenting at the moment with mixes and ingredients. The first one I did was whole wheat because that's all the mix they had left....and it smelt awful but tasted okay....just.
Since then I've gone on to French bread, white bread, sweet bread (not so good, too sweet) and raisin bread. You have to be careful not to add the yeast near the oil, otherwise it will nullify the rising of the bread. The machine mixes, pauses to let the yeast do its job, then kneads, kneads and then pauses etc etc. You can set the machine to make the bread darker, crispier or whatever your taste is. It will also do all sorts of pastry mixes. Bloody wonderful and heaps of fun, if you get it right, then you also get the accolades as a bonus. My wife takes a couple of slices to work with her for morning tea. My daughter tends to rat the soft inside - little bitch, looks like rats have got to it.
The machine cost about 3-4,000 baht (depending on their sales specials) at Verasu http://www.verasu.com/ I don't work for them, neither do I get a commission.
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:16 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:MGV12,
MGV12 wrote:Ingredients?

Water 320ml
oil 2 TBL
Salt 1 tsp
sugar or honey 2 TBL
milk 2 1/2 TBL
White flour 600g
yeast 1 tsp
I'm just experimenting at the moment with mixes and ingredients. The first one I did was whole wheat because that's all the mix they had left....and it smelt awful but tasted okay....just.
Since then I've gone on to French bread, white bread, sweet bread (not so good, too sweet) and raisin bread. You have to be careful not to add the yeast near the oil, otherwise it will nullify the rising of the bread. The machine mixes, pauses to let the yeast do its job, then kneads, kneads and then pauses etc etc. You can set the machine to make the bread darker, crispier or whatever your taste is. It will also do all sorts of pastry mixes. Bloody wonderful and heaps of fun, if you get it right, then you also get the accolades as a bonus. My wife takes a couple of slices to work with her for morning tea. My daughter tends to rat the soft inside - little bitch, looks like rats have got to it.
The machine cost about 3-4,000 baht (depending on their sales specials) at Verasu http://www.verasu.com/ I don't work for them, neither do I get a commission.


Sounds good as we were only discussing yesterday that we should bake our own bread.

And .. keeping it on topic ... which butter and which cheese do you prefer?

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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:00 pm

MGV12 wrote:which butter and which cheese do you prefer?

Allowrie salted and Bega tasty matured. There are a couple of salted French brands of butter, but I can't remember their names. I like all the cheeses especially at a wine tasting. Staying on topic of course.
I looked up the cost at Verasu and at the moment they are a little bit expensive 4,000 baht for the Severin and 5,500 for the bigger Homemate, but, as I bought mine a while back I guess that's their discount price now.
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:44 am

I was weaned on margarine from the age of 10 until 15 during the war (1940-1945) when the ration allowed was 8oz of margarine plus 4oz of butter each week then 8oz of butter and 4oz of margarine the next week and so on. Our mother for some strange reason used to save the butter for relatives or visitors, rather stupid really as the oldest that was stored eventually got served was usually rancid from what I saw.(No Fridges in those days.) Anyway as soon as I had anything to do with it ,I only used butter for the rest of my life. What's better than crispy fresh bread,butter and cheddar cheese,. with pickled onions,or what I still have now as a quick lunch snack, cheese and tomatoes on toast. Can't be that bad for you as I am still going strong.(So far)
I do like fresh bread though, but find it does go hard pretty quick in Thailand when I get it from Tesco's. Maybe I will have to have a go at baking my own with one of those machines, one friend uses one that does the lot and the results are excellent .
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:07 am

Mike Judd wrote:Anyway as soon as I had anything to do with it ,I only used butter for the rest of my life. What's better than crispy fresh bread,butter and cheddar cheese,. with pickled onions,or what I still have now as a quick lunch snack, cheese and tomatoes on toast. Can't be that bad for you as I am still going strong.(So far)


Pushing my buttons :D

Home made pickled onions [well shallots] now and mango chutney :wink:

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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:51 am

MGV12,
MGV12 wrote:Home made pickled onions

Just a hint, if you make pickled onions make sure you don't throw away the juice. Nothing tastes better on chips than pickled onion juice.
I actually miss crumpets with lashings of butter and jam, luckily I can make the "batter" in my bread maker and might have a shot at making some... the problem is finding out which are the stupid recipes and which are the good ones.
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Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:44 am

All this talk about food has made me hungry, as it's 12.30 p.m. here in Oz, so I'll have lunch while watching The "ROYAL AUSTRALIAN NAVY" review on Telly. Can't be bothered with actually going into the city with all the crowds and road closures .
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