Do you like cheese and butter?

Tempted to post some off topic material in the Building Forums....... Want to talk about football, your neighbor's dog or exchange friendly barbs with other members?? Start your conversations here!!!

Moderators: Sometimewoodworker, MGV12, BKKBILL

Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:49 am

The good stuff is expensive here but personally I can't live without my cheese and butter ... and apparently the increased risk of heart attacks is a myth:

Dairy delights: Eating butter and cheese 'doesn't increase risk of heart attacks'

It's great news for cheese and butter fans - scientists have found that eating dairy food doesn't increase your risk of a heart attack.

Nutritionists surveyed thousands of middle-aged people and found that even those who ate more than half a kilo of cheese did not seem to suffer from increased risk.

Contrary to earlier beliefs that saturated fat might lead to a heart attack, researchers found that nutrients in dairy products actually counteract the harmful effects.

Researcher Stella Aslibekyan, of Brown University, Rhode Island, where the research was carried out, said: 'Things like milk and cheese are very complex substances.

'We looked at heart attack risk and dairy products in their entirety and then looked at separate components of those dairy products, including fats, and it turns out that the results are null.

'Perhaps the evidence is not there.'

Her team doesn't believe the saturated fats in dairy products are harmless, but suggest other nutrients such as calcium, vitamin D and potassium may protect against heart disease for all but those who ate the most of them in their study.

Their findings, taken from 3,630 Costa Rican men, are published in the Nutrition, Metabolism and Cardiovascular Diseases journal.

They found the dairy intake of people who had heart attacks was no different to the intake of people who did not.

Looking at how much dairy food they ate, there was no link between consumption and heart attack risk, even among those who consumed as much as 593 grams a day.

When the researchers accounted for other factors such as smoking, alcohol and exercise, there was still no difference, statistically.

Dr Ana Baylin said: 'The message is that it is important to look at the net effect of whole foods and dietary patterns and not only isolated nutrients.'

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... z22jmfkOUJ

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
User avatar
MGV12
 
Posts: 5349
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby sirineou » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:17 pm

We read so many contradicting reports all the time, it is Difficult to know what's what any more.
With so much uncertainty it might be wise to err on the side of caution
By the way, I wonder who funded this research.
I talk to my self because I am the only one who will listen
User avatar
sirineou
 
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:30 am
Location: USA/Thailand, khon Kaen

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:29 pm

sirineou wrote:We read so many contradicting reports all the time, it is Difficult to know what's what any more.
With so much uncertainty it might be wise to err on the side of caution
By the way, I wonder who funded this research.


What :!: you mean it could possibly be biased :shock: and funded by those with vested interests???

No mention of the cholesterol aspect in there either.

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
User avatar
MGV12
 
Posts: 5349
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:20 pm

MGV12 and sirineou,
A quick search would have revealed this; which answers all your questions and hypothesising http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2011/05/dairy The two scientists concerned (one a PhD student) had no motive to manipulate the findings of others in either direction, all they had was data gathered over the years and that on it's own takes out the human sympathy factor.
I can recall, going back 55+ years when milk was introduced into the daily diet of each school child in Australia and the astounding results in curbing deficiencies in diet, broken bones, etc etc etc...the list was endless. I also recall all the arguments against giving children milk because of the saturated fats, cholesterol and all the other arguments at the time, mostly from quacks. And even in those days the benefits far outweighed the few who were truly allergic to milk.
I also recall the very very large number of scientists and doctors who found they were wrong about cholesterol and fats and what they did and didn't do. Just like eggs.
Isn't it a pity people can't get on a scale and then look at themselves in a mirror and say "I'm fat, I need exercise, I'm killing myself, I eat crap foods, I need to change my habits and take all things in moderation because otherwise I'll kill myself no matter how many pills I take". But instead they clutch at straws and sit on their fat arses and make excuses why they can't do something....lose weight!
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5251
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:44 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:MGV12 and sirineou,
A quick search would have revealed this; which answers all your questions and hypothesising http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2011/05/dairy The two scientists concerned (one a PhD student) had no motive to manipulate the findings of others in either direction, all they had was data gathered over the years and that on it's own takes out the human sympathy factor.
I can recall, going back 55+ years when milk was introduced into the daily diet of each school child in Australia and the astounding results in curbing deficiencies in diet, broken bones, etc etc etc...the list was endless. I also recall all the arguments against giving children milk because of the saturated fats, cholesterol and all the other arguments at the time, mostly from quacks. And even in those days the benefits far outweighed the few who were truly allergic to milk.
I also recall the very very large number of scientists and doctors who found they were wrong about cholesterol and fats and what they did and didn't do. Just like eggs.
Isn't it a pity people can't get on a scale and then look at themselves in a mirror and say "I'm fat, I need exercise, I'm killing myself, I eat crap foods, I need to change my habits and take all things in moderation because otherwise I'll kill myself no matter how many pills I take". But instead they clutch at straws and sit on their fat arses and make excuses why they can't do something....lose weight!


I did that search before posting.

When I was at school my first position of authority :lol: was Milk Monitor and I got to consume as much as I wished of the leftovers. Maybe as a result of this practice I became lactose intolerant some years later and since me teens haven't been able to digest whole milk, cream or yoghurt ... I can, as mentioned, enjoy cheese and butter as the process eliminates or modifies the problem enzyme. I am not alone with this lactose problem ... even though I don't appear to factor in any of the main categories mentioned:

Sixty percent of adults can't digest milk

There are people who have true milk allergies that can cause deadly reactions. But most people who have bad reactions to milk aren't actually allergic to it, in that it's not their immune system that's responding to the milk

Instead, people who are lactose intolerant can't digest the main sugar —lactose— found in milk. In normal humans, the enzyme that does so —lactase— stops being produced when the person is between two and five years old. The undigested sugars end up in the colon, where they begin to ferment, producing gas that can cause cramping, bloating, nausea, flatulence and diarrhea.

If you're American or European it's hard to realize this, but being able to digest milk as an adult is one weird genetic adaptation.

It's not normal. Somewhat less than 40% of people in the world retain the ability to digest lactose after childhood. The numbers are often given as close to 0% of Native Americans, 5% of Asians, 25% of African and Caribbean peoples, 50% of Mediterranean peoples and 90% of northern Europeans. Sweden has one of the world's highest percentages of lactase tolerant people.

Source and full story: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/20 ... ance_N.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
User avatar
MGV12
 
Posts: 5349
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby sirineou » Mon Aug 06, 2012 8:59 pm

MGV12 wrote:What :!: you mean it could possibly be biased :shock: and funded by those with vested interests???
No mention of the cholesterol aspect in there either.

Since such unscrupulous behavior has never manifested it's self in the past, I know that am being overly paranoid, :oops: , but such is my nature.
Roger Ramjet wrote:
MGV12 and sirineou,
A quick search would have revealed this; which answers all your questions and hypothesising http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2011/05/dairy The two scientists concerned (one a PhD student) had no motive to manipulate the findings of others in either direction, all they had was data gathered over the years and that on it's own takes out the human sympathy factor

As far as I can tell from the article the authors were Aslibekyan a graduate student and co-author Ana Baylin, an adjunct assistant professor of community health at Brown, and they based their hypothesis on data provided by by co-author Hannia Campos of the Harvard School of Public Health.
Nowhere did I find any information as to whom was funding that research.
and it is not only the Human sympathy factor that I am concerned with.
Here in the US the Cows are driving a campaign toward less meat eating and more chicken eating
Image
Of course the chicken are not taking all this Laying down
Image
with in the context of these food wars, I would not be to surprised if the Mice did not have a hand in the funding of such research
Image
I talk to my self because I am the only one who will listen
User avatar
sirineou
 
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:30 am
Location: USA/Thailand, khon Kaen

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby payebacs » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:42 am

People keep climbing on the band wagon. Many people have very real food allergies but all of a sudden so many more are adopting diets designed to accommodate those allergies like gluten free. Imagine bending over backwards to get someone a gluten free meal only to then find that they've no allergy to gluten at all.. it was simply their "dietry preference" after which yes, they'll have the packed full of gluten desert afterall. :?
Saving for my next holiday. And for my build.
User avatar
payebacs
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:51 am

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:05 am

payebacs wrote:People keep climbing on the band wagon. Many people have very real food allergies but all of a sudden so many more are adopting diets designed to accommodate those allergies like gluten free. Imagine bending over backwards to get someone a gluten free meal only to then find that they've no allergy to gluten at all.. it was simply their "dietry preference" after which yes, they'll have the packed full of gluten desert afterall. :?


It's a sad reflection on today's society that 'fashion' and 'attention seeking' have influenced the way many live their lives ... some even belief they are genuinely affected/afflicted by the conditions they mimic. I have a nutritionist friend in the UK whose one daughter genuinely had Celiac [Coeliac] Disease [Gluten allergy] and peanut allergy as a child ... both cause major reactions and peanuts could literally kill her; the other daughter has neither and fortunately the affected one's symptoms reduced substantially after she exited from puberty. One possible side-effect was that she did grow a magnificent pair of hooters! Her mother became a nutritionist after striving to handle the daughters problems ... this was maybe 15 years ago when it was impossible to buy Gluten-free foods. Gluten does not just feature in bread and pasta ... it's used in a mass of products including sauces, shampoos, lotions, chap stick, and makeup. In those days packets of peanuts did not feature the warning 'May contain traces of nuts' on the label ... let alone the many other products that were processed in the same factory ... even the smell of peanuts can affect someone genuinely afflicted.

Due to manifest reasons there are more and more genuine new [?] health conditions caused by our food and environmental influences than there are cures for the conditions that already exist. There are also many new names for previously existing conditions and those who appear to be affected but aren't really. Kids aren't badly behaved anymore ... they have a syndrome or whatever ... the 'treatment' for which makes somebody a good number of bucks!

Meat, dairy and gluten all place a strain on our digestive system as it strives to extract the intrinsic value therein. Meat can take more energy to digest than it produces and in some the process is so slow that the meat can start to putrefy in the gut. On that happy note ...................................

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
User avatar
MGV12
 
Posts: 5349
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:51 am

The production of most cheese and butter starts in a cow ... as do hamburgers:


“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
User avatar
MGV12
 
Posts: 5349
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:46 am

sirineou,
sirineou wrote:Nowhere did I find any information as to whom was funding that research.

Perhaps if you had read the article you would have seen this: The National Institutes of Health funded the research with grant HL60692.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5251
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby MGV12 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:49 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:sirineou,
sirineou wrote:Nowhere did I find any information as to whom was funding that research.

Perhaps if you had read the article you would have seen this: The National Institutes of Health funded the research with grant HL60692.


A report of the findings from a more academic source:

Study: Dairy consumption does not elevate heart attack risk
May 18, 2011

Analysis of dairy intake and heart attack risk found no statistically significant relation in thousands of Costa Rican adults. Dairy foods might not harm heart health, despite saturated fat content, because they contain other possibly protective nutrients, researchers say.

PROVIDENCE, R.I. [Brown University] —Dairy products can be high in harmful saturated fat but not necessarily in risk to the heart. A newly published analysis of thousands of adults in Costa Rica found that their levels of dairy consumption had nothing to do statistically with their risk of a heart attack.

“Things like milk and cheese are very complex substances,” said Stella Aslibekyan, a community health graduate student at Brown University and the lead author of the study, published in advance online May 4 in the journal Nutrition, Metabolism and Cardiovascular Diseases. “We looked at [heart attack risk and] dairy products in their entirety and then looked at separate components of those dairy products, including fats, and it turns out that the results are null. Perhaps the evidence is not there.”

Rather than suggesting that the saturated fats in dairy products are harmless, Aslibekyan and co-author Ana Baylin, an adjunct assistant professor of community health at Brown, hypothesize that other nutrients in dairy products are protective against heart disease, for all but perhaps the highest dairy consumption quintile in their study. The potentially beneficial nutrients include calcium, vitamin D, potassium, magnesium and conjugated linoleic acid (CLA).

To conduct the study, Aslibekyan and Baylin analyzed data on 3,630 middle-aged Costa Rican men and women who participated in an epidemiological study between 1994 and 2004 by co-author Hannia Campos of the Harvard School of Public Health.

They split the study population between two equal groups: 1,815 “cases” who had non-fatal heart attacks and 1,815 comparable “controls” who did not. The researchers looked not only at the subjects’ self-reported dairy intake, but also at measurements of dairy fat biomarkers, namely 15:0 and 17:0, in their bodies.

What they found is that the dairy intake of people who had heart attacks was not statistically different than the intake of people who did not. After breaking people into quintiles, based on their dairy consumption amount, there was no significant linear relationship between consumption and heart risk, even among the most voracious consumers. The highest consumption quintile consumed an average of 593 grams of dairy foods a day.

When the researchers controlled for such risk factors as smoking, waist-to-hip ratio, alcohol intake, and physical activity, the lack of a statistically significant association between dairy intake and heart attack risk remained. They also tracked and adjusted the data for levels of CLA and calcium and found they may have a protective effect. Protective effects lessened in the highest quintile, however.

Baylin likened the nutritional complexity of dairy products to that of eggs, which were once a source of intense consumer concern because of their cholesterol content, but are now viewed in a more complex way because they, too, have seemingly protective nutrients.

“The message is that it is important to look at the net effect of whole foods and dietary patterns and not only isolated nutrients” Baylin said.

Since conducting the study at Brown, Baylin has been appointed an assistant professor of epidemiology at the University of Michigan School of Public Health. Aslibekyan, who will graduate from Brown May 29 with a PhD, is already employed as a postdoctoral scholar at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

The National Institutes of Health funded the research with grant HL60692.

Source: http://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2011/05/dairy

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
User avatar
MGV12
 
Posts: 5349
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:23 pm
Location: Chiang Mai

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby sirineou » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:07 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:sirineou,
sirineou wrote:Nowhere did I find any information as to whom was funding that research.

Perhaps if you had read the article you would have seen this: The National Institutes of Health funded the research with grant HL60692.

I actualy read MGV's article, it had many pretty pictures of cheese, and on the side pictures of girls in Bikinis, where your article only had one picture of cheese, no girls and many words, some of them big words..distracting me from the truth with facts!! :( You sir need to get your act together.If you expect me to read the whole article, you must provide more pictures and less words. In sort it is your fault.
I just noticed that at the bottom of your article they state that the research was funded by the National institutes of Health, which is probably a front for the Mice Lobby .
The Mice have being attempting to affect the course of American politics for some time now, many time with support from the Cow tribunal.You sir would know that if you had watched more Pinky and the Brain cartoons,
Image
but sadly your lack of education is reflected on your uninformed opinion on the politics of Cheese.
Frankly, I am outraged :x I think a formal apology is in order.
I talk to my self because I am the only one who will listen
User avatar
sirineou
 
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:30 am
Location: USA/Thailand, khon Kaen

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:21 pm

sirineou,
sirineou wrote:I think a formal apology is in order.

I fully understand and accept your formal apology.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5251
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby BKKBILL » Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:58 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:sirineou,
sirineou wrote:I think a formal apology is in order.

I fully understand and accept your formal apology.

:D :D indeed! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
It's not who you know, it's whom you know.
User avatar
BKKBILL
 
Posts: 2942
Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Mae Taeng, Chiang Mai

Re: Do you like cheese and butter?

Postby payebacs » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:11 am

BKKBILL wrote:
Roger Ramjet wrote:sirineou,
sirineou wrote:I think a formal apology is in order.

I fully understand and accept your formal apology.

:D :D indeed! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I don't think sirineou was actually apologising only saying that "he believed" he owed Roger an apology. Still, same difs so happy days!
Saving for my next holiday. And for my build.
User avatar
payebacs
 
Posts: 399
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:51 am

Next

Return to Friendly Banter

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest