Stone, Metal & Glass

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Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:10 pm

I thought I'd jump in and share my design ideas for what will be the first structure on our property in Mae On, see here for the intro;

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4043

The plan is for a weekender/holiday home that will eventually be a place for guests, once the main house is built. We want to try out a few design concepts on this and if they work we will use on the main house. We hope to start building building before the end of the year (famous last words)

The plan is for a single storey open plan space raised 80cm off the ground measuring 10m x 10m.

If you recall my landscaping thread;

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=4485

The hand sketch shows the small pavilion structure next to the pond.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:14 pm

And here's the design concept.

Low profile metal roof at minimum allowed pitch. Thick stone walls on either side, with huge cavity that will house services. Full height glazing front and rear.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:16 pm

Open plan layout with a utility/bathroom area in a central core.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:01 pm

Design development

Replace full height glazing to rear with AAC block cavity wall, to avoid evening sun heating the interior space. Apart from sunsets the view to the rear is not so great either. Incorporate an external deck to the front and extend eaves to roof by two metres to shade glazing.
Also, moved central utility/area core to rear wall.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:15 pm

andymac wrote: Full height glazing front

Are you talking about double glazed glass? If so where are you going to get it? I even went to "farang" companies asking about it, but none would/could supply. It's imported and will cost you an arm and leg and as it's imported from China there are no guarantees with the gas staying in it after 3 or 4 months. Any glass that is not totally shaded will heat the house to boiling no matter how many double cavity walls you have in.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby fredlk » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:11 am

andymac wrote:Design development

If I may butt in with my 2 Cents worth, I would add a full length strip of vent-windows high up on the other side as well. That way you keep your design, but give it some extra light and much needed cross-ventilation.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:29 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:
andymac wrote: Full height glazing front

Any glass that is not totally shaded will heat the house to boiling no matter how many double cavity walls you have in.

Don't forget that you can get low e glass that is made in Thailand, so that doesn't have to be true. It is also the case that double glazed units are made in Thailand there may well be units that are imported but there are locally made ones as well.

As to the gas filling of double glazing, the important point is that it is dry and stays dry. If it is CO2, krypton, argon or air makes a difference to the performance of course but as in Thailand the main point is reducing heat gain from radiation rather than from conduction the fill gas is less important. The critical point is that the humidity is low, and stays, as low as possible for as long as possible. Most DG units fail because the desiccant fails or becomes saturated allowing condensation and staining inside the unit.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:39 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:Any glass that is not totally shaded will heat the house to boiling no matter how many double cavity walls you have in.


I have to agree with you. I have first hand experience with my place here in HK, for a couple of hours some mornings we get blasted by the sun and the sofa is off limits during that time.
The above are early concept sketches from six months ago, the design now has the glazing set back two metres behind eaves and protected at the sides by the stone walls. By my calculations we should be OK as far as the glazing aspect is concerned, of course that's all academic. :)
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:51 am

fredlk wrote: I would add a full length strip of vent-windows high up on the other side as well. That way you keep your design, but give it some extra light and much needed cross-ventilation.


I've been playing around with this design for the last six months and the rear wall is now on it's fourth revision. We now have horizontal strip windows, to not only add direct light in the kitchen area, but also to help with the air flow as you mentioned.

I'm at now at the coffee shop, but will upload the latest sketches when I return home.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:30 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:Don't forget that you can get low e glass that is made in Thailand, so that doesn't have to be true.

Low e glass reflects, but it still gets hot and radiates heat inside unless it is shaded and even then it radiates heat, albeit less.
Even with shading both inside and outside my windows are still warm to touch, possibly because I have reflective inside blinds. Even windows and glass doors that are exposed briefly retain a lot of that heat during the day, and radiate it inside the house.
I have yet to find a factory in Thailand that complies with all the following http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulated_glazing or will warranty the window for 10 years. As one major distributor told me..... "they come from China, so it's hit and miss" and that's without even factoring in the massive cost.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:29 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:Low e glass reflects, but it still gets hot and radiates heat inside unless it is shaded and even then it radiates heat, albeit less.
Even with shading both inside and outside my windows are still warm to touch, possibly because I have reflective inside blinds. Even windows and glass doors that are exposed briefly retain a lot of that heat during the day, and radiate it inside the house.


RR I understand your point. My office in HK has full height glazing (3 metres) to two sides, facing west. The glazing is warm to the touch, but surfaces close by are not and the area maintains a comfortable temp with AC. However, late afternoon when the sun is directly on the glazing I need to draw the blinds to restrict the heat build up and to maintain the comfort level in the room.

I'm hoping the orientation analysis will resolve most of the heat issues as far as the glazing is concerned.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:56 pm

Orientation

The Priorities
1. Views
2. Shade
3. Air flow

When we carried out the pond excavation and grading works on the land we also positioned a dozen flags in key locations, to the amusement of the locals.
See here; viewtopic.php?f=30&t=4485&start=15
This was to show the direction of the prevailing winds and to help determine the orientation for the first structure.

The sun/shade analysis resulted in an orientation for the building that provides views of the distant mountains and benefits from the prevailing wind cooling as it passes over a planned water feature. From a shading aspect, the sun will only hit the glazing until 9:30am at certain times of the year, worse case scenario. We hope to mitigate this by the half dozen trees we have recently planted. The rear is protected by numerous existing trees and less glazing than originally planned.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby andymac » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:33 pm

Here's some sketches of the design as it currently stands. I'm comfortable with the sizes, orientation, glazing and roof.
The area that I'm taking a bit of a leap of faith is with the huge stone walls on either side, so any comments, suggestions and advice most welcome.

The design of the walls are just over 1.2 metre wide, two poured reinforced concrete walls with stone facing, probably granite. It's accepted the outer face will feel the full force of the sun throughout the day and heat up accordingly. I'm hoping the inner wall (also granite faced) will do the reverse, cool down with the aircon and hold the temperature. The inner wall will be insulated and there's a minimum 70cm cavity between the two, hopefully reducing the amount of heat held in the outer wall entering the living space.

Do you think it will work, or am I mad?
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Stone Pavilion rev 07 01.jpg
Front Elevation - South East Facing
Stone Pavilion rev 07 03.jpg
Rear Elevation - North West Facing
Stone Pavilion rev 07 04.jpg
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:59 pm

andymac wrote:I'm hoping the orientation analysis will resolve most of the heat issues as far as the glazing is concerned.

There is just one German company in Thailand that will supply the exact glazed glass you require, made to measure and assembled in their factory. I had a problem communicating with them but the staff could have changed by now. At the time they claimed my house was too small for them to be interested, so I just lessened the profile of every window in the house and went with a local man. I still went with the blue tint though.
I really like the design of the house, for once someone is talking and showing practicality, instead of gushing over some architect's drawings that may look aestheically pleasing to the eye but would be a headache to live in, here in Thailand.
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Re: Stone, Metal & Glass

Postby zebrafilm » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:41 pm

Hey Andy, completely missed your thread. Nice to see the progress. We will be in CM in Dec hope to see you there.

One thing I miss, looking at the designs, is how to deal with the water on the roof. No gutters means it will just run off? In that case I would make the roof overhang a bit larger than the deck, so if it rains you can still be there and it will not damage the materials under it too much.

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