Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

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Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby newbiebuilder » Wed May 09, 2012 10:36 am

Over in the swimming pool section Jazzman mentions the subject of Sai Lang or Hin Lang. I would like to learn how to lay this correctly to cover some concrete stairs exposed to outdoors, and the ground floor walkways around the house and would like to learn about the options for pigment and the size of stones/pebbles used in this 'sandwash' material. I live way out in the sticks but can get to Chang Mai to purchase materials - does anyone know the suppliers/store where I can purchase the bags of tiny stones that cover 1 sqm per bag for @60 baht? Also what grade cement should I use? Can you please advise ratio of water to cement and sand, and would it be wise to use a waterproofing additive to the mix? The new mix will be spread over existing smooth concrete which is in very good condition. Do I need to use a bonding agent/film/glue to ensure the new cement bonds to the old below? The finish I want is similar to swimming pool surrounds and ideally want a dark brown colour to match an existing conwood deck of that colour. I have found a builder who wants 400 baht per sqm - needless to say I will attempt myself! Any advise would be very much appreciated.
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby newbiebuilder » Thu May 10, 2012 3:38 pm

I have found a bonding solution called SikaLatex. Has anyone got experience of this product please? http://th01.webdms.sika.com/fileshow.do?documentID=58 I am wondering if I should use this in my attempt at Sai Lang above. Help?
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu May 10, 2012 4:33 pm

newbiebuilder,
newbiebuilder wrote:Do I need to use a bonding agent/film/glue to ensure the new cement bonds to the old below?

There are two products on the market at the moment Lanko 751 and Sika, both are as good as each other, however, you can buy Lanko in large plastic drums (5 gallons) which I've used throughout my build with excellent results I've also used the Sika products and they are also excellent. The answer to your question is, yes.
Both cane be purchased at either HomePro or Thai Watsadu.
I'm sorry I can't offer any more advise, however I believe you are going about it the right way....don't forget to use a pressure spray when the concrete hardens.... can't offer advise there either.
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby newbiebuilder » Thu May 10, 2012 9:24 pm

Thanks Roger very useful and very reassuring. There is a new Thai Watsadu in Lampang so going to look there. Many thanks. Anyone else know anything specifically about Sailang? Please?
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby jazzman » Fri May 11, 2012 7:00 pm

Laying sailang is not rocket science and I've done plenty of it myself. The problem is that every chang will say that he can do it but there are only two kinds of labourers: those who can, and do it very well, and those (like all other workmen) who will say they can even if they haven't got the foggiest idea and never touched the stuff in their lives. If you have your own competent labour who can do it on a normal day rate, then it's a very cheap and hardwearing exterior floor covering. If you've been offered ฿400 per m2, be absolutely sure that the guy really has done it before, is including the price of all the materials, and can show you earlier projects. I's still expensive at ฿ 400 getting it done by a 'professional', but here in Khon Kaen city and Udon Thani city they charge ฿750 while just outside the cities some will do it for ฿200 per m2 if you are supplying the stones, the pigment, the PVC dividers, the brush, and the heavy flat trowel.

฿60 is the right price for the standard stones. For other material, such as crushed quartz or granite, it's often ฿100 per bag, but it looks very nice, especially when used around a pool and done with white cement. One pool constructor in Udon charges ฿2,500 per square metre for normal sailang. Not that it's any different from any other sailang, of course, and the stones come from the same shop near Global House, but naturally because it's for a pool it has to have a luxury goods label. For pool decks, I would be inclined to seal the sailang with A-100.
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby MGV12 » Fri May 11, 2012 7:27 pm

Our carport floor and columns were 'sand/grit/stonewashed' in 2010 by a team from Sarapi. Excellent job, not the cheapest available at the time but at 250B M2 for grey cement and 400B M2 for white not unreasonable; same stone in both cases. I agree that's it's not rocket science but with everything else going on at the time I didn't fancy the idea of embarking on a learning curve with the first point of contact on my own house.

Sandwash.jpg

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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby newbiebuilder » Tue May 15, 2012 10:00 am

jazzman wrote:Laying sailang is not rocket science and I've done plenty of it myself. The problem is that every chang will say that he can do it but there are only two kinds of labourers: those who can, and do it very well, and those (like all other workmen) who will say they can even if they haven't got the foggiest idea and never touched the stuff in their lives. If you have your own competent labour who can do it on a normal day rate, then it's a very cheap and hardwearing exterior floor covering. If you've been offered ฿400 per m2, be absolutely sure that the guy really has done it before, is including the price of all the materials, and can show you earlier projects. I's still expensive at ฿ 400 getting it done by a 'professional', but here in Khon Kaen city and Udon Thani city they charge ฿750 while just outside the cities some will do it for ฿200 per m2 if you are supplying the stones, the pigment, the PVC dividers, the brush, and the heavy flat trowel.

฿60 is the right price for the standard stones. For other material, such as crushed quartz or granite, it's often ฿100 per bag, but it looks very nice, especially when used around a pool and done with white cement. One pool constructor in Udon charges ฿2,500 per square metre for normal sailang. Not that it's any different from any other sailang, of course, and the stones come from the same shop near Global House, but naturally because it's for a pool it has to have a luxury goods label. For pool decks, I would be inclined to seal the sailang with A-100.


Thanks Jazzman this is extremely useful. I am going to try myself. Can you please post an example of the 'heavy flat trowel' you mentioned as I will need to purchase?

I have found a link on ehow 'How to Make Aggregate Concrete:
The constituent parts in the article are:
Mix one part Portland cement, two parts sand and four parts decorative aggregate stone and mix in enough water to make the mixture the consistency of cookie dough. If the decorative aggregate is expensive, the concrete can be made with less expensive gravel and the decorative aggregate seeded on top of the concrete after it is poured............

Read more: How to Make Aggregate Concrete | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6088526_make-ag ... z1uu3BSc6f

Could you please advise on the type of (acid? concrete surface retarder) wash to be applied to clean the residue cement off the stones - manufacturer if possible and which DIY store? Finally after 28 days it seems you should seal the whole surface with a hard transparent sealer. Again can you please advise manufacturer and type of sealer to use?

Many thanks for your help.
Last edited by newbiebuilder on Tue May 15, 2012 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby newbiebuilder » Tue May 15, 2012 10:06 am

MGV12 wrote:Our carport floor and columns were 'sand/grit/stonewashed' in 2010 by a team from Sarapi. Excellent job, not the cheapest available at the time but at 250B M2 for grey cement and 400B M2 for white not unreasonable; same stone in both cases. I agree that's it's not rocket science but with everything else going on at the time I didn't fancy the idea of embarking on a learning curve with the first point of contact on my own house.

Sandwash.jpg


Thanks MGV - appreciate the response. Hope mine turns out looking as good as yours!
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby jazzman » Tue May 15, 2012 10:40 am

Here is a picture of the trowel. You can't get them everywhere all the time, and prices differ wildly. I always buy mine at Global House for about ฿ 200 when they have them in stock. If you buy the same one in the shop that sells the sailang, they will want up to ฿1,000 for it.

Acid: use hydrochloric acid กรดไฮโดรคลอริก (the same the professionals use for lowering the pH in swimming pools), or grotgluea กรดเกลึอ. I don't know what a 'CM' store is, but you should be able to buy in any decent large builsers' merchant. Local village hardware stores and the 'family' stores such as Homepro and Home Martprobably won't stock it.

Sealant: I always use A-100 brand and also use it on sandstone blocks etc. Again, watch the price - it ranges from ฿450 to 750 for a can.

When laying sailang, don't forget you can't stop until you have finished because it's impossible to make a clean joint. If you can't finish in one day or one shift, use a decorative PVC strip to make a clean join. It will stay in place. Also use the PVC strips as expansion joints if doing large surfaces. The strips are sold by the sailang merchant in several colours. The strips also double as a handy depth gauge.
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How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby newbiebuilder » Thu May 17, 2012 8:54 am

jazzman wrote:Here is a picture of the trowel. You can't get them everywhere all the time, and prices differ wildly. I always buy mine at Global House for about ฿ 200 when they have them in stock. If you buy the same one in the shop that sells the sailang, they will want up to ฿1,000 for it.

Acid: use hydrochloric acid กรดไฮโดรคลอริก (the same the professionals use for lowering the pH in swimming pools), or grotgluea กรดเกลึอ. I don't know what a 'CM' store is, but you should be able to buy in any decent large builsers' merchant. Local village hardware stores and the 'family' stores such as Homepro and Home Martprobably won't stock it.

Sealant: I always use A-100 brand and also use it on sandstone blocks etc. Again, watch the price - it ranges from ฿450 to 750 for a can.

When laying sailang, don't forget you can't stop until you have finished because it's impossible to make a clean joint. If you can't finish in one day or one shift, use a decorative PVC strip to make a clean join. It will stay in place. Also use the PVC strips as expansion joints if doing large surfaces. The strips are sold by the sailang merchant in several colours. The strips also double as a handy depth gauge.


Once again, Jazzman, many thanks for all your advice - including the Thai words which will be very useful for the next trip into the city (CM Chiang Mai) without the wife. Everything is clear now except for the PVC strip as expansion joints. I have decided to include the carport in the Sailang project which I cannot possibly complete in one day, so I will need the PVC strips you mention. Is there a special Thai word for these? Can you post a photo? Is there a specific store in Chiang Mai that you know of?
Indebted to you - many many thanks.
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby jazzman » Thu May 17, 2012 6:31 pm

The shop that sells the sailang stones will also sell the PVC strips.There is no special name for it. It comes in 3m long strips and they cost ฿15 each. Don't leave them out in the sun before you use them because they will curl up and be no good.
I don't know anything about Chiang Mai, it's about 700 Km from where I live.
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Re: Sai Lang or Hin Lang Advice Please

Postby newbiebuilder » Sat May 19, 2012 7:08 pm

:) thanks
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