additives

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additives

Postby glennb6 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:02 pm

I'm now in Buengkan, about 2hrs to the right of Nongkai, need to pour about 18 cu M of 240 concrete. Wanted to use fiber mesh (nylon microfibres) and perhaps a waterproofer addmixture. Asked at the local CPAC and TPI about both, particularly fibre. Wife knows what it is and guy I spoke with at TPI spoke english, so no translation problem - just no clue what fibre is an of course, mi-mee.

Anyone else use before with CPAC or TPI, or know if I can buy in Issan and have them toss the right amt in each truck mix?

Thx
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Re: additives

Postby geordie » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:04 am

Glenn this may or may not help RR has been getting a good supply of additive,s from Lanco
so the waterproofer should not be an issue The fibre,s i have only ever heard of being used for pattern printed concrete or stamped concrete depending on origin if it were me i would be looking in that direction to see if they use it over there when printing/stamping at thr top of the page there is a search engine that will search the forum for a previous discusion on pattern printing and a company was discussed over there that does it the topic was discussed a couple of times and its a couple of years ago :roll: can i ask why you wish to add the fibres as i understood it to be only benificial if the concrete was of a fine stone mix and the intention was a thin layer of concrete ?? although i have very little knowledge of it use other than pattern printing wher a 6mm stone is used with an air entrainer also
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Re: additives

Postby glennb6 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:15 am

nylon fiber acts much like millions of tiny rebar pieces in the slab so adds strength, and reduces surface cracking too. Thought it would be a good idea. Would also like to use a water reducer
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Re: additives

Postby MGV12 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:16 am

glennb6 wrote:nylon fiber acts much like millions of tiny rebar pieces in the slab so adds strength, and reduces surface cracking too. Thought it would be a good idea. Would also like to use a water reducer


Works really well but haven't seen it here. Again, the water reducer I haven't seen ... but every building site has a water increaser, or three, as they sure like to get that mix flowing! The ready-mix truck drivers also have to be watched closely; the truck might have the correct water ratio when it leaves the plant but those drivers will add a lot to get the pudding out of the truck quicker ... often encouraged by the workers who don't want the extra effort of moving about a stiffer mix!

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Re: additives

Postby geordie » Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:55 am

Mgv11-1/2 :roll: i have to agree they dont like the effort of dragging it out to level it far easier to water it to death and let it self level

I see the point in the fiber,s for surface spalling but its use as a rebar is limited :lol: :lol: i have the pattern print (and cracks) to prove it :roll: normally the concret and rebar are enough that you would not need the fibre,s and get them to slump test it if you are worried about over watering tell them too wet no pay and you will if you want more water add it on site chicken wire cann add a lot of extra strength to a slab :roll:
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Re: additives

Postby glennb6 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:33 pm

Tip about driver and workers making soup out of concrete is well taken and I've heard same elsewhere, hence my interest in a water reducer to keep the flow without drowning the stuff. Have used fiber and read about specs so believe it helps, but will also be using the Y-met wire mesh. I told myself I'd buy and bring rebar chairs when I moved here and of course I didn't.... Will try making some out of wire rather than using the little concrete doughnuts.

Also planning on trying 4" C channel steel bars (reversed with the open side on the outside) rather than the warped, bent, crooked, and otherwise not straight wood boards. Figure the 6m steel pieces ARE straight, can tack weld to ground stakes, and will coat with diesel just prior to the pour. Hope to be able to the reuse for roofing steel after stripping.

Slabs will be 20x6x.1 meters and 6x4.5x.1 meters, non load bearing and no vehicular traffic. I'm being fussy about leveling and screeding to a very flat surface with a hard troweled finish based upon specific usage of building floor when done. Have printed out pictures from google image searches of 'proper forming, screed boarding, and finishing so can show Thai workers.
Good luck to me.

Thanks for all the advise.
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Re: additives

Postby MGV12 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:57 pm

glennb6 wrote:Good luck to me.

Thanks for all the advise.


Yes, good luck to you ... if you aim for the stars you might at least hit the Moon - keep us posted as these things can be achieved if you are determined enough and speak Thai tech language/have a good interpreter.

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Re: additives

Postby geordie » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:57 pm

glennb6 wrote:Tip about driver and workers making soup out of concrete is well taken and I've heard same elsewhere, hence my interest in a water reducer to keep the flow without drowning the stuff. Have used fiber and read about specs so believe it helps, but will also be using the Y-met wire mesh. I told myself I'd buy and bring rebar chairs when I moved here and of course I didn't.... Will try making some out of wire rather than using the little concrete doughnuts.

Also planning on trying 4" C channel steel bars (reversed with the open side on the outside) rather than the warped, bent, crooked, and otherwise not straight wood boards. Figure the 6m steel pieces ARE straight, can tack weld to ground stakes, and will coat with diesel just prior to the pour. Hope to be able to the reuse for roofing steel after stripping.

Slabs will be 20x6x.1 meters and 6x4.5x.1 meters, non load bearing and no vehicular traffic. I'm being fussy about leveling and screeding to a very flat surface with a hard troweled finish based upon specific usage of building floor when done. Have printed out pictures from google image searches of 'proper forming, screed boarding, and finishing so can show Thai workers.
Good luck to me.

Thanks for all the advise.

If RR nonthaburi pak kret has not gone fishing yet he may point you to the relavent sections in his thread which show you home made chairs and the use of a power trowel team he employed to give a decent finish to his slabs they look superb in the pictures but that could be because my computer is a valve job without great resolution and i am half blind :lol:
seriously it could save you coming to greif as the team will not want to lay slurry or the trowel will sink you will have trouble with the spans anything long enough will bend ?
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Re: additives

Postby glennb6 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:12 pm

well the deed is done, and with angst and resign. 20 cubic meters of assorted sizes of round Mekong river rock including nearly softball sized ones, modestly sauteed with a grey fluid, and but a subtle hint of a sandy substance. Yup. First 10 seconds of watching the wet rocks slide down the shoot were counted with the translation of "it always starts wet that way".

The rocky river continued as I pondered whether to tell six thai workers and the concrete truck guys (a loose description at best) to (edit language mod) and then decide what to do with a couple cubic meters of wet rock and how to salvage the wire mesh underneath, or bullwinkle, do I accept that I choose to live in bizzaro land just deal with snafus because it will not get any better and likely worse. I made the flash decision to continue and tell wife to translate that it's too damn (edit language mod) wet and next truck had better be half that soupy.

She did and Somchai and the gang looked puzzled but proceeded to slog it through. That pretty much summed up the 4 hours with a total of 1 hr waiting in-between trucks. I had had a local shop cut and weld a halfways decent 1 meter wide float and attach it to a long bamboo pole in the hopes of smoothing out a nice creamy surface. The thais thought that was really something and crazy falang and all that, and I discovered that wet cementiuos covered rock which lacks an appropriate proportion of sand will not finish for love or money.

This did not stop Somchai and his friends from sloshing around surface bleed water like a banana boat on pattaya bay. Water does tend to self level except on a modest grade. At least I now can confirm that water will drift off the grade in the desired direction. I floated and floated thereafter albeit in vain. The thais looked on in proud amazement of their work and didn't understand why the crazy falang kept shaking his head.

Wife and I used to work decorative concrete back in falang land so she was sort of getting the idea that it wasn't quite right, but forbid she or I say boo and upset anyone, bad form and manners in bizarroland ya know.

Now I'm wondering if there is such a thing as skim coating using extra hard sand (quartz or granite or similar) with portland and acrylic polymer liquid and a quality magic trowel as so to fill in and smooth the ridges, gaps, voids, and gaps. I do know 'what' to do but the stuff to do it with in (edit language mod) of bizarroland is not likely to be had.

Hey, what else could go wrong!
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Re: additives

Postby glennb6 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:15 pm

did I really type that last sentence!!!?? there's a six foot hole dug in prep for a septic tank and the worker's 2 and 4 yr old kids tend to run and play in the area while we're working. YIKES.
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