whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

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whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby Treysd3 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:33 pm

Hello All

I have a Question? And I have searched and cant seem to find a answer.

Is there a big difference in using Pre Made Slab Concrete Sheets over Putting Sand down and pouring the Concrete?

Also If you use the Pre Made Slabs. How do they put PVC pipes in for Plumbing and water?

In this picture I see that they put the PVC pipes in under the foundation walls and then fill with sand and then the Cement Pour.

My GF just suggested that we use the Pre Made Concrete Slabs. Is this a good Idea?
Im confused how they do the plumbing with the pre made slabs

We received a quote for the slabs for the entire house at 28,000 baht

Thank you Trey
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby Max&Bee-in-CM » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:11 am

Treysd3 wrote:
Is there a big difference in using Pre Made Slab Concrete Sheets over Putting Sand down and pouring the Concrete?


Yes - time, price, sturdiness.

No prefab: soil then sand or red rocks then concrete pour.
With prefab: soil infill then slabs then concrete pour.

Treysd3 wrote: How do they put PVC pipes in for Plumbing and water?


Jackhammer, drill or chisel out holes for the pipes - measure the position of the pipes then mark it out on the prefab, then make the holes, then put it into place.


Treysd3 wrote: My GF just suggested that we use the Pre Made Concrete Slabs. Is this a good Idea?


It can be but the red rocks may be much cheaper though. What I did not like about the prefab floors, is you still need to fill the cavity up - I did not like the idea of having an earth space between the soil and prefab (insects, ants, snakes, rats maybe) - in your pic above you have about 40cm empty space there, where insects can breed. And once you have the prefab slabs, you still need to pour concrete on top, but less than 10cm I believe, maybe 8cm. So its a long process - infill to the top of the ground beams and compact, put the slabs in (after chiseling out the holes for PVC pipes), then pour concrete slab on top.

We considered it, but decided not to go with it, and pour a 15cm slab instead on top of red earth.
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby geordie » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:42 am

because you are building on the ground the void is too small to be of use as a crawlspace
for services so just fill it up with dirt
if you go for the planks its a waste of money as you are using them as shuttering basically
you still have to mesh and concrete over them its of little benefit in your case do make sure they get the plumbing/drainage in before the pour
some people have built a couple of feet off the ground in which case a lot of infill a lot of compacting and the loss of an area that could be used for to run services / storage makes the planks viable
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby kknaj » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:51 am

Prefab concrete floors are designed for the 2nd floor on 2 level houses. Its a waste of money to use them on 1 level houses. Its about 1/3rd of the price to do a concrete pour.

The concrete pour would be more sturdy and solid. Its also easier to install all the PVC plumbing before the concrete pour.

I've never heard of any thai or farang that used the prefab floors on a one level house. Who came up with the idea? Perhaps a salesman chewed the ear of your gf a bit?
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby Treysd3 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:26 am

Max&Bee-in-CM wrote:
Treysd3 wrote:
Is there a big difference in using Pre Made Slab Concrete Sheets over Putting Sand down and pouring the Concrete?


Yes - time, price, sturdiness.

No prefab: soil then sand or red rocks then concrete pour.
With prefab: soil infill then slabs then concrete pour.

Treysd3 wrote: How do they put PVC pipes in for Plumbing and water?


Jackhammer, drill or chisel out holes for the pipes - measure the position of the pipes then mark it out on the prefab, then make the holes, then put it into place.


Treysd3 wrote: My GF just suggested that we use the Pre Made Concrete Slabs. Is this a good Idea?


It can be but the red rocks may be much cheaper though. What I did not like about the prefab floors, is you still need to fill the cavity up - I did not like the idea of having an earth space between the soil and prefab (insects, ants, snakes, rats maybe) - in your pic above you have about 40cm empty space there, where insects can breed. And once you have the prefab slabs, you still need to pour concrete on top, but less than 10cm I believe, maybe 8cm. So its a long process - infill to the top of the ground beams and compact, put the slabs in (after chiseling out the holes for PVC pipes), then pour concrete slab on top.

We considered it, but decided not to go with it, and pour a 15cm slab instead on top of red earth.


I really dont know what they are thinking over there!! i appreciate the help on this. I dont like the sound of it as well. And everything that I have seen from all your posts have nothing to do with this.. I am Just calming down from the round poles all over the house. This is just another issue I have to deal with now. I will stop this first thing in the morning as I am so over this Thai thinking process...
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby Treysd3 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:30 am

kknaj wrote:Prefab concrete floors are designed for the 2nd floor on 2 level houses. Its a waste of money to use them on 1 level houses. Its about 1/3rd of the price to do a concrete pour.

The concrete pour would be more sturdy and solid. Its also easier to install all the PVC plumbing before the concrete pour.

I've never heard of any thai or farang that used the prefab floors on a one level house. Who came up with the idea? Perhaps a salesman chewed the ear of your gf a bit?


I agree this is a waste of Money. I am stopping this tomorrow.

What was the cost of your Cement CPAC pour as my house will be around the same sq footage. 120sq meters.???

This idea came from her moms sister and everyone as she said... I said well if her Moms sister wants to pay for everything then she can. Until then I make the decisions.

I can only imagine what our builder is thinking or doing during all of this... From the Round Forms to now this Pre fab concrete.. Im sure he's just sitting there laughing... I would think he would jump in a say what are you doing girl!

Thanks for all your advice.
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby Treysd3 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:31 am

geordie wrote:because you are building on the ground the void is too small to be of use as a crawlspace
for services so just fill it up with dirt
if you go for the planks its a waste of money as you are using them as shuttering basically
you still have to mesh and concrete over them its of little benefit in your case do make sure they get the plumbing/drainage in before the pour
some people have built a couple of feet off the ground in which case a lot of infill a lot of compacting and the loss of an area that could be used for to run services / storage makes the planks viable



Hello Geordie... you are the 3rd person saying waste of money and time... so this is a stupid idea.. I really wish I could understand the thought process of a thai person...

thanks again for all your advice.
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby geordie » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:43 am

from other builds take note both single floor
[url]http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/download/file.php?id=2632&mode=view[url]
[/url]http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3058&mode=view[/url]
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby geordie » Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:07 am

previous post the links went wrong on me again(sorry bill i know it upsets you seeing my incompetence)one is for septura and his build the other was sauna and spa ect ?? basically to show there are instances when you would opt for the planks over fill

some more examples of concrete plank courtesy of rick b and cruzing
DSC02164_-_Floor_Slabs_-_010808.JPG
rick b ground floor
another_view_of_crawlspace_walls_Oct_28%2C_2004.JPG
cruzing
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cruzing
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cruzing
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cruzing


There are ocasions when planks are more viable than fill dirt and cruzing has used her for acsses under the house
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:33 am

geordie wrote:(sorry bill i know it upsets you seeing my incompetence)


Oh dear here we go again. No worries geordie but just for your information there is a preview button right next to submit. If you would take the time checking your post before sending posting errors could be reduced. After now some 965 posts I thought it would be obvious.

Most builds here in BKK are now precast slab floors. The exception being bathrooms these are one pour slabs with fill and a vapour barrier installed under the pour to prevent moisture wicking.

Both ways are acceptable. The house I am now in has precast slabs on both upper and lower floors one advantage is no contact with the earth, another is insect control under slab is possible.

Here are a few pictures showing different methods there are many more that can be found in our photo gallery and those that are still building.

My next build will be all precast slab.

.
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby MGV12 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:29 am

Just checked before posting this and BKKBill has posted something similar ...

To use the solid planks for a ground floor pour, where there is to be no crawlspace, is I agree an additional expense.

I did however use an alternative to the solid pour approach and have been entirely satisfied with the result:

The concrete planks [nominal 5cm thick x 30 cm wide with minimal rebar strengthening] are as mentioned before merely shuttering for the concrete pour. Around here they are priced at 230/240 Baht per M2.

My house design doesn't lend itself to the ground floor being elevated to provide a crawlspace but I created a small air break between the dirt and the floor [about 30cm deep] for two main reasons:

1. To effectively prevent ants/termites ect making their home in the nice cool and dark space under the house.

2. To run my pipes conveniently under the floor .... not encased within it.

Mention has been made of termites/ants etc infesting the crawlspace but they actually live in the nice cool and dark dirt under a house; not in the air above it which they actually try to avoid. If you install a bug spraying system in the compacted dirt under a solid base you can only address those areas where the nozzles are located ... unless you have a thousand nozzles and a very high pressure injection system there will be plenty of areas for the bugs to infest directly under your concrete floor. All concrete develops capillaries as it cures and the way they pour it here in full sun it dries way too quick and this will cause minor cracks ... both excellent ways for bugs to get up under your floor covering. With a void it's very simple to spray the entire area .. below .. above .. the beam/foundation wall.

In the unlikely event of a water pipe failure the leakage will not be absorbed by the surrounding soil looking for a way through your damp proof membrane; if you have one. It will simply drain down into the soil below. If it is significant enough to need attention it will be a great deal easier to gain access for repair/replacement than if it were encased [somewhere?] in a solid concrete slab .... which would entail smashing through your lovely tiles/marble/granite flooring in one or more rooms looking for the leak.

The slabs I used on my ground floor are pre-stressed hollow core ... 8cm thick x 60cm wide and come in a variety of lengths. Delivery and installation, including cutting around pipework, is included in the price of 260 Baht per M2. Tiles, marble, granite etc can be laid directly over them using the usual thick bed cement method that is most common here.

If you compare the cost of a solid floor ... dirt .... labour to lay and compact dirt ... steel rebar mesh ... damp proof membrane ... CPAC [type] concrete .... labour to lay the concrete ... you would find that the price difference is no big deal and has in my opinion considerable advantages. It is of course considerably cheaper than using solid planks and a poured floor.

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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby fredlk » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:54 am

BKKBILL wrote:Here are a few pictures showing different methods there are many more that can be found in our photo gallery and those that are still building.

You forgot mine:
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:24 am

fredlk wrote:
BKKBILL wrote:Here are a few pictures showing different methods there are many more that can be found in our photo gallery and those that are still building.

You forgot mine:


Didn't forget you Fred you were suppose to be covered by and those that are still building Guess I should have stated it clearer.

MGV12 wrote:If you compare the cost of a solid floor ... dirt .... labour to lay and compact dirt ... steel rebar mesh ... damp proof membrane ... CPAC [type] concrete .... labour to lay the concrete ... you would find that the price difference is no big deal and has in my opinion considerable advantages. It is of course considerably cheaper than using solid planks and a poured floor.


Now this I didn't know, just assumed a pour of concrete would be used above the pre-stressed hollow core planks. Delivered, installed and at a good price 260 Sq. M. Thanks for that the supplier isn't far from my upcoming build, or so I've heard. Think I know what my sub-floor will be. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby fredlk » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:32 am

MGV12 wrote:The slabs I used on my ground floor are pre-stressed hollow core ... 8cm thick x 60cm wide and come in a variety of lengths.

Is there no resonance or vibration because of the hollow core and the lesser thickness?
I am not sure what is used in the house I'm in but it is built to a high standard and even so I can hear if somebody is walking on the floor above.
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Re: whats better? Pour CPAC Floor or Concrete Prefab Sheets

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:51 am

MGV12 wrote:8cm thick x 60cm wide and come in a variety of lengths. Delivery and installation, including cutting around pipework,


Missed this part on the first read. I intend to have all floors at the same level this includes the bathrooms so if the people supplying the cored pre-cast floor also cut-out for piping another problem of pouring bathroom floors would be solved.
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