ground cross beams needed?

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ground cross beams needed?

Postby missiongrowers » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:53 am

hello fellow builders and concrete experts :)
im currently building a house in khonkaen
i plan to build a stilt house with poured concrete columns

do i need to include the horizontal footing concrete
that ties the base of the columns together if i do not plan to make a ground floor?
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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby BKKBILL » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:24 pm

If you have or need a plan everything you are doing should be shown on that plan.

Depending where you are makes all the difference to what has to be done.
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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby Max&Bee-in-CM » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:02 pm

I am by far no expert - but in your case I believe they will still make horizontal beams, but
they will be under your first floor, so say its 2 m up from the ground for the first floor, thats
where the horizontal "ground" beams will be.

If you dont use any horizontal beams for stabilization, I would be worried about sideways
movements. But as BKKBILL said, it should be on the plan, and signed off by an engineer.

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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby John » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:59 am

The answer is no you dont need ground level beams. You really should have an engineered drawing for this project.

Below a building on top of short columns. The columns are first connected at the first floor and later at the roof with a ring beam.

beam.jpg
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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby otis-a » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:56 pm

I venture a provisional no. do a soils test at your site: without such is just speculation but soils bore hole and engineering eval is proper proceedure: as always; u can venture on closology of nearby builds

based on soils eval either bore, pile drive, or dig and fill to the required depth as set by your stability criteria and load requirement

in theory a fixed end column is just that

in practice i once did 1meter deep runner column for stringing pipe up drill mast but soils too soft and it failed: but at 2 meters all ok you can see this column under pdf of forum topic; cars i owned
where to park dog when in town? A barking lot... :-)))
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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby missiongrowers » Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:19 am

thanks for the feedback guys.

here is my basic layout
kkbeamcolor.jpg


from studying similar local structures, it seems the basic building unit is 3x3 meters with 7" columns (2x2 iron reinforcement). so this design is based on a 3x3 grid. the largest span is 6m (2x3 iron reinforcement)

i would love to run this by an engineer but the concept of a single consultation seems unheard of. all the locals want to be hired for the entire job which i don't need.
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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby missiongrowers » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:43 pm

reality check please

here is the updated beam layout
the builder says the second floor beams need to be 40cm tall with 6 steel rebar
im cool with that
but he also says the ground beams. where there will be no weight bearing (only purpose is shear prevention) must be 35cm with 6 steel rebar

i feel that 7inch with 4 rebar (same as columns) should be sufficient

any opinions please?
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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:00 pm

missiongrowers,
It's all in the length of the span and 6 metres is near the maximum. When I had the architect design my house, (see my thread for the design) I asked him if we could run 9 metre beams. His immediate reply was "No, too far", 7 metres is the maximum. And for 6 metres you must have 6 rebars in the concrete.
As far as engineers are concerned why not pop down to the local Tesaban engineering department and have a free talk with them? After the final architects drawings were submitted for approval it cost just 10,000 baht for two engineers to approve the plan, and attach their signatures. You must have approval from them to build and get a house number so you may as well go and see them now.
You would be better off getting an architect for 35,000 because in the end, when the plans get detailed, their programs incorporate everything. But as they say in Thailand, "Up to you".
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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby MGV12 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:20 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:missiongrowers,
It's all in the length of the span and 6 metres is near the maximum. When I had the architect design my house, (see my thread for the design) I asked him if we could run 9 metre beams. His immediate reply was "No, too far", 7 metres is the maximum. And for 6 metres you must have 6 rebars in the concrete.
As far as engineers are concerned why not pop down to the local Tesaban engineering department and have a free talk with them? After the final architects drawings were submitted for approval it cost just 10,000 baht for two engineers to approve the plan, and attach their signatures. You must have approval from them to build and get a house number so you may as well go and see them now.
You would be better off getting an architect for 35,000 because in the end, when the plans get detailed, their programs incorporate everything. But as they say in Thailand, "Up to you".


Agree with roger ... if you are in a location where your plans need to be signed by a 'qualified' person you can usually locate one at the Tesaban and they will provide you with a signature for a reasonable fee as long as what you want is not in the realms of fantasy. More important however is to build a structure that is according to sound engineering principles. Without wishing to appear flippant ... look at the Millau Bridge in Southern France http://www.technologystudent.com/struct1/millau1.htm if you want to see what spans are possible. In house building terms it's never as simple as how long a beam can I build ... it's more a case of what is the beam required to support; at least it should be.

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Re: ground cross beams needed?

Postby missiongrowers » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:29 am

MGV12 wrote:
Roger Ramjet wrote:missiongrowers,
it's more a case of what is the beam required to support; at least it should be.


exactly and the groundbeams are supporting nothing and their entire weight is supported by the ground. anywho, good suggestion to run this buy some engineers. thanks
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