Bluescope Zacs

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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:52 pm

Saffles wrote:Go visit many companies...


Been to two places both 350/m2
But i guess if you got 250 and STWW paid 300/m2 I better do better.
I hear there's a place past Promenada....
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:55 pm

Cheeryble wrote:
Wow STWW thats quite a place crane and all.......congratulations!

I no doubt have some questions coming but will start with one as it's time to move.....

About cutting the sheet to length.
I'm presuming this must be done on site.

Yes
Not sure how the cutting doesn't adversely affect the corrosion resistance......One would expect a little rust line along the bottom edge after a while.
Am I missing something?


Yes. Colourbond is a 5 layer material including zinc. Must only ever be cut using shears never an angle grinder.

EDIT.......duh.......maybe the cut edge goes at the top and the sheets are treated for corrosion as sheets and uncut before delivery ....but on my sloping flat roof would this top edge be sheltered by an edging strip?

The ends are not treated see above , they usually have a flashing but don't need it.

Secondly, clipped seems sensible to me.
Can it be unclipped?

Yes

Cost worth worrying about?i

Not much difference in price
Again congrats.....


Thanks
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:49 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:
Wow STWW thats quite a place crane and all.......congratulations!

I no doubt have some questions coming but will start with one as it's time to move.....

About cutting the sheet to length.
I'm presuming this must be done on site.

Yes
Not sure how the cutting doesn't adversely affect the corrosion resistance......One would expect a little rust line along the bottom edge after a while.
Am I missing something?


Yes. Colourbond is a 5 layer material including zinc. Must only ever be cut using shears never an angle grinder.

EDIT.......duh.......maybe the cut edge goes at the top and the sheets are treated for corrosion as sheets and uncut before delivery ....but on my sloping flat roof would this top edge be sheltered by an edging strip?

The ends are not treated see above , they usually have a flashing but don't need it.

Secondly, clipped seems sensible to me.
Can it be unclipped?

Yes

Cost worth worrying about?i

Not much difference in price
Again congrats.....


Thanks


Thanks those answers are really worth knowing.....
Cheeryble
 
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:22 pm

Cheeryble wrote:
Saffles wrote:Go visit many companies...


Been to two places both 350/m2
But i guess if you got 250 and STWW paid 300/m2 I better do better.
I hear there's a place past Promenada....

You need to be careful that you are comparing like with like.

And in that case you are not. We have different profiles, mine uses the cliplock fastening system, Marks quotes are for a system that is screwed down, mine is 700 mm wide his is 760mm wide
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:02 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:
Saffles wrote:Go visit many companies...


Been to two places both 350/m2
But i guess if you got 250 and STWW paid 300/m2 I better do better.
I hear there's a place past Promenada....

You need to be careful that you are comparing like with like.

And in that case you are not. We have different profiles, mine uses the cliplock fastening system, Marks quotes are for a system that is screwed down, mine is 700 mm wide his is 760mm wide


Apologies to all.....i thought we'd agreed m2 pricing was the way to go.
STWW I'm presuming youre saying you and Mark are going by the running metre at 700 and 760mm wide, plus extra allowance for overlap?

STWW I would usually like to pay one guy/team to do the whole building job with a labour charge and us supplying materials.
In the case of metal roofs I'm considering separating that job to specialists to get it right......neat trim and properly tightened washers etc. It looks like thats what you did so you'd agree I guess?
The other thing is I saw you put the walls up first rather than roofing first to make a dry workspace. Was that just because it was very dry season so no worries.....or are there advantages doing it that way round?
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:23 pm

Cheeryble wrote:Apologies to all.....i thought we'd agreed m2 pricing was the way to go.


That is correct.

STWW I'm presuming youre saying you and Mark are going by the running metre at 700 and 760mm wide, plus extra allowance for overlap?

No, not at all.

I'm saying that you can not just compare the two prices and conclude the marks supplier is cheaper than mine (quite possibly they are, I don't know). The roof profiles are different, so the numbers of metres of material needed is different and the fixing method is different.

Thus his square metre price and my metre price is not a like for like comparison.

Cheeryble wrote:
STWW I would usually like to pay one guy/team to do the whole building job with a labour charge and us supplying materials.



If you are employing the workers directly good luck with that, you may well need to fire one or more groups, most people hear have had to.

In the case of metal roofs I'm considering separating that job to specialists to get it right......neat trim and properly tightened washers etc. It looks like thats what you did so you'd agree I guess?

that's what we did, no complaints no problems.

The other thing is I saw you put the walls up first rather than roofing first to make a dry workspace. Was that just because it was very dry season so no worries.....or are there advantages doing it that way round?
That isn't what did.
You can't put the roof on until after the posts are up, the roof support metal team were a specialist team. We had two different teams working at the same time. The advantage was a shorter build time.

Start about here http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4890&start=105 and you will see the roof being constructed (no walls yet)
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:08 pm

Just a quick word on PE experiment...

When I visited the Bluescope dealer i took various roof sample colors out into the sun to compare. I also took a medium green sheet with 5mm PE insulation out and laid in the sun. After about 5 minutes I collected. The top side was so hot that could not hold or touch. The bottom was just a little warm.

Lighter colors should be even better.

Mark
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:11 pm

Saffles wrote:Just a quick word on PE experiment...

When I visited the Bluescope dealer i took various roof sample colors out into the sun to compare. I also took a medium green sheet with 5mm PE insulation out and laid in the sun. After about 5 minutes I collected. The top side was so hot that could not hold or touch. The bottom was just a little warm.

Lighter colors should be even better.

Mark


Yes have tested also, the PE is amazingly effective for such a thin layer.
Then I'm sure having plasterboard with a ventilated space underneath/between the rafters which you and I probably will.....would make more difference.
The question is.......is it good enough for a house that will probably be using aircon.......and is an upgrade to PU better or PE plus 50mm rock wool on plasterboard?

Hmm a three pipe problem Watson
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Andyfteeze » Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:56 pm

be careful with insulation under roof products. My wife had a roof put over her balcony about 4 years ago with insulated tin roof. The insulation deteriorated rather rapidly.
What appeared to be foil protection was just sprayed on paint that looked like foil. The foam desintegrated straight after the coating faded.
I dont know if they are all like that, but anything under 1/2" is pretty minimal in any case.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:13 pm

Andyfteeze wrote:What appeared to be foil protection was just sprayed on paint that looked like foil.


It was foil. Also available in 10mm.

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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:59 pm

Cheeryble wrote:...and is an upgrade to PU better or PE plus 50mm rock wool on plasterboard?

Hmm a three pipe problem Watson


https://inspectapedia.com/insulation/In ... _Table.php

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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:59 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:Apologies to all.....i thought we'd agreed m2 pricing was the way to go.


That is correct.

STWW I'm presuming youre saying you and Mark are going by the running metre at 700 and 760mm wide, plus extra allowance for overlap?

No, not at all.

I'm saying that you can not just compare the two prices and conclude the marks supplier is cheaper than mine (quite possibly they are, I don't know). The roof profiles are different, so the numbers of metres of material needed is different and the fixing method is different.

Thus his square metre price and my metre price is not a like for like comparison.

Cheeryble wrote:
STWW I would usually like to pay one guy/team to do the whole building job with a labour charge and us supplying materials.



If you are employing the workers directly good luck with that, you may well need to fire one or more groups, most people hear have had to.

In the case of metal roofs I'm considering separating that job to specialists to get it right......neat trim and properly tightened washers etc. It looks like thats what you did so you'd agree I guess?

that's what we did, no complaints no problems.

The other thing is I saw you put the walls up first rather than roofing first to make a dry workspace. Was that just because it was very dry season so no worries.....or are there advantages doing it that way round?
That isn't what did.
You can't put the roof on until after the posts are up, the roof support metal team were a specialist team. We had two different teams working at the same time. The advantage was a shorter build time.

Start about here http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4890&start=105 and you will see the roof being constructed (no walls yet)


Thanks for that STWW and taking the trouble to look up the link...
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Cheeryble » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:06 pm

Saffles wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:...and is an upgrade to PU better or PE plus 50mm rock wool on plasterboard?

Hmm a three pipe problem Watson


https://inspectapedia.com/insulation/In ... _Table.php

Mark


Thanks Mark

To be honest I've never worked out R values in my life.
I guess it's the windows which will be the weak r-point, but as the last and present places I lived in and live in aren't even glazed but are shutters-and-flyscreen and have lived without aircon for fourteen years here I dare say I'll survive with a place I can use aircon just when I really need to :shock:
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Andyfteeze » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:06 pm

well saffles, if it is foil, its rather on the thin side, as you do in thailand. I wouldn't even consider it after my experience. Roll up alfoil as in glad wrap type product is far and away stronger and thicker than the crap I saw.
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Re: Bluescope Zacs

Postby Saffles » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:04 pm

Andyfteeze wrote:well saffles, if it is foil, its rather on the thin side, as you do in thailand. I wouldn't even consider it after my experience. Roll up alfoil as in glad wrap type product is far and away stronger and thicker than the crap I saw.


You can call me Mark.

It looked nice and yes it is thin. All aluminum products are great at reflective insulation but not with heat transfer. Also aluminum foil in high heat high humidity environments will oxidize and be practically worthless in time.

Concrete tiles are strong and thick but do not stop heat transfer. A 5 kilo per meter Colorbond roof is cooler (to the house) than a 50 kilo CPAC roof.

http://www.sigmalabs.com/blog/reflectiv ... d-r-values

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