Roof Insulation, Eaves and Colorbond

methods, materials, sources & prices, construction for separate Topics on:
- steel truss
- tiles and coverings
- gutters and valleys
- insulation and ventilation
- soffit
- ceilings and anything related to ceiling construction and decoration

Moderators: Sometimewoodworker, MGV12, BKKBILL, pattayapope

cooling systems

Postby Nara » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:31 am

Thanks for the links, Udon. We're staying in a small hotel south of Hua Hin village. The property that we're building on is closer to Cha Am. We have about a 80 KM round trip commute each day and will probably find a place closer to the property when we actually start to build. 8)
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Postby Screws » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 am

Hi Udon, nice houses, but may I make a suggestion;
If you build the Homestead floorplan, bring the bed 1 door toward the front of the house, (a metre or so) then you can put the walk in wardrobe in the area on the right as you go in. Then delete the other w'robe, for a much bigger bedroom, and you can have bedroom windows south and east.

Good luck with it anyway.
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Postby udon » Tue May 16, 2006 4:59 am

http://www.thaiforbuilders.com/
has vanished. Anyone know what happened to it?

thanks.

edit: matbe this is it now! http://buildingthailand.com/
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vetilation

Postby cruzing » Tue May 16, 2006 9:51 am

Is there any roof ventilation on these house designs?

cruzing
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Postby udon » Tue May 16, 2006 9:54 am

Which designs or links?
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ventilation

Postby cruzing » Tue May 16, 2006 10:51 am

udon wrote:Which designs or links?


any of the above. It doesn't look like the roofs are vented at all. If ventilation is under the eaves like in thailand your "attic" is still holding all that hot air. cool air will go down, but not hot......unless maybe it builds up so much in there some is forced out. Even with those whirly gig things you have to have a vent somewhere for the hot air to go out the whirlygig, or it's just basically spinning in the wind.
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Postby udon » Tue May 16, 2006 10:57 am

Well, I'm buggered if I know! :?

They all link to Aus sites and Hawaiian.

I haven't been inside any of them but Aus has strict building codes for the tropics.

Have you read all the info? :D
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Postby cruzing » Tue May 16, 2006 11:00 am

udon wrote:Well, I'm buggered if I know! :?

They all link to Aus sites and Hawaiian.

I haven't been inside any of them but Aus has strict building codes for the tropics.

Have you read all the info? :D


Hey Udon, You know me.......a picture says a thousand words :wink:
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Postby Boon Mee » Tue May 16, 2006 7:41 pm

cruzing wrote:
udon wrote:Well, I'm buggered if I know! :?

They all link to Aus sites and Hawaiian.

I haven't been inside any of them but Aus has strict building codes for the tropics.

Have you read all the info? :D


Hey Udon, You know me.......a picture says a thousand words :wink:

A nudge is as good as a wink to a blind man or so they say...anyhow, wanted to ask if there are residential homes built in LOS with the big, slow moving whole-house vent fans commonly seen in the US?

Cheers,
BM
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Postby Itchy » Tue May 16, 2006 11:27 pm

I'll let the reader decide who's what.


This reader has made up his mind and I haven't come down on the side of rabbid ranting.
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Postby udon » Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:21 am

Itchy wrote:
I'll let the reader decide who's what.


This reader has made up his mind and I haven't come down on the side of rabbid ranting.


He has his own forum now at http://www.losers.com :lol: & calls himself "Dirty Dog" or DirtyDog.....He's even more abusive now, & still has a very limited word bank with the constant use of "fokwit" :shock: :lol:
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roofing

Postby brooshie » Sun Nov 19, 2006 9:12 pm

Just been reading the stuff about roofing,the limey knows nothing.
Colorbond is screwed down and comes in long runs,one would have to be a pretty detirmined burglar to remove sheets that may be many metres long with a cordless drill.
There are corrugated iron roofs in australia and NZ that have never been painted and are stll leak proof after 150 years,and these were short runs with joints which is where the rust starts.
Modern colourbond with sopisticated paint treatments will last virtually forever.
As for noise anyone raised in a house with a tin roof will tell you that the sound of rain on the roof whilst one is laying cosy in bed is one of life's great pleasures.
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REFLECTIVE FOIL ROOF INSULATION

Postby jazzman » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:47 am

This was an interesting thread until
- it turned into a slanging match.
- lost track of itself and people turned it into an instant messaging about unconnected stuff.

Jazzman took the time to follow up on the live links that were provided. Much of the arguing could have been saved if people properly read the links which they themselves posted.

The Australian research paper, if any of you actually really read it rather than just taking a cursory glance at it, states the following (I've retyped this verbatim):

The paper sumarises research studies on the effect of dust on the thermal performance of reflective insulation in residential attics. It also presents material to support a case for minimal de-rating, if any, of reflective foil insulation., laid horizontally on the attic floor. and NO de-rating of reflective foil insulation elsewhere.
HRB - horizontal radiant barrier.
TRB - truss (rafter) draped radiant barrier.


FIRSTLY: The key to the argument is that this research ONLY (and notice the bold, underlined NO in the original text) is based on HRB, where instead of reflecting the solar heat as near to the source as possible, the attic space is warming up FIRST because the foil is laid horizontally on the ceiling.
Anyone with any sense who is going to buy foil will install TRB, to prevent the heat from entering the roof space in the first place, and will know that because of the pitch of the roof a greater reflective surface is also presented to the sun.

SECONDLY: The research is based not on the reflective qualities of the foil - which lab tests have already proven to do an excellent job - but on the effect of dust settling on the foil.

Thus for the amount of dust required to have a significant effect in reducing the reflectivity of the foild, you must first satisfy some pretty negative features of the location of your house. In simple terms, the WCS means you need to be near a busy, unpaved dirt road with a prevailing breeze blowing the dust your way.
OTHER POSTERS have correctly mentioned the need for a design concept for cooling the house. Note that TRB effectively seals the roof covering from the natural breathing feature of overlapping tiles (whatever they are made of, except that awful colorbond stuff), so some ventillation has to be incorporated (some people have obviously forgoitten their 5th Grade physics: warm air rises).

In spite of the reflective foil,
the air in the roof space will of course still tend to warm up. The simplest way to get ride of it is to have well ventillated soffit, and some way for the air to escape from the roof at ridge level.

Jazzman decided,
in spite of all the negative talk, to install TRB foil uder the tiles of his single storey house. he does not really want to live with a/c after 7 years experience with it in rented accommodation.

He also installed a suspended tile ceiling, which by the very nature of its construction, is not hermetically sealed like plasterboard ceilings, thus allowing a maximum of warm air from the rooms also to escape upwards.
Jazzman does not live in a dusty environment. His house is set back 30m from a sealed road and is otherwise surrounded by trees, and vegetation. there are no prevailing winds, and only rarely even a slight breeze.

He also installed soffit which has breathing slots. He used his own secret. formula to allow the warm air to escape through the roof ridge.

Only a few weeks to go before the hottest period of the year, April, and to get thermometers in the place and do some practical tests. Another, smaller building on the land with the same construction and same tiles, but with out the foil will be used as a control.

Cost of the foil: 8,000 baht (50 baht per m2). This seems expensive for what seems to be sophisticated baking foil, when floor and wall tiles start at only just double that. Cost of installing it: too low to calculate!

Cost of AirCon: 120,000 - 180,000 baht. (20,000 - 30,000 per room for six rooms) Plus 600 - 1,500 baht per month each for the electricity.

Footnote (for those that got sidetracked and lost the plot): Jazzman has said it before on this board and will say it again; "I fail to understand why, in a country where for us farangs, rich or poor, building a house in the LOS is such a tiny investment compared with the cost in a Western country, farangs opt for poor pioneer, boondock or outback solutions and put tin on their roofs in Thailand, instead of some kind of real tiles."
Jazzman is retired and not rich. For reflective foil, he rests his case :)
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
Don't let this happen in YOUR house.
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Postby Nawty » Sat May 19, 2007 7:07 pm

Well....some people do not like a tiled roof, I do not.

I do like corrugated iron and 'Q' decking and shingles of various sorts.

A roof we have just put up is metal sheet and we sprayed the underside with foam insulation. We have dropped ceilings of plasterboard.

On the Northern side, which is the high side of the roof and the Southern side, which is the low side, we have put vents along the entire underside of the roof, small powder coated aluminium louvres which should allow the flow of air through the roof. Enter the low side, which is the prevailing wind side also and exit the high side. At the very least circulating the trapped air and letting the hot air rise and exit naturally on the high side.

In addition we have eaves extending 1.5m out keeping the side windows and walls shaded to an extent.

Hopefully this works ok, can post some pics one day soon and when the vents are in. Currently it is very cool under roof, but we have no windows yet :wink:

As for the discussion on extended eaves and verandahs/balconies....I love them, the bigger the better and all old homestead type properties in Oz have them and they are cool. They keep the house very cool and the walls shaded.

Additionally if your walls are made of stone or such material, the effect inside will be very well appreciated in this tropical climate.

I plan to build a house in Kanchanaburi in the next 5 years and it will be of stone or concrete with stone exteriors and have 3m eaves and verandahs at least on 3 sides. Guaranteed this house will be naturally cool and possibly not require aircon except perhaps in the bedrooms upstairs for sleeping as I like the doonah and snuggling up in a cold room to sleep.

But thats just me in my old age, I spent many years in the tropics in Oz with no aircon, in fact several years in Darwin with no aircon and just a ceiling fan and still pulled up the doonah in the early hours of the morning.

Forgot to mention, the pitch of this metal roof is very low, the degrees I am not sure, but it is 70cm on the high side, down to 0 on the low side over about a distance close to 15.5m.
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Postby udon » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:42 am

Hi Nawty, how about some pics?

Sounds good! :)
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