metal roofing and reflective foil

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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:29 am

oil wrote:

does anybody still have those documents / pdf lying around, cause its gone from their website
It's still there
for me it redirects to http://www.finehomebuilding.com/error

Just takeout the /Free and you can get it
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby oil » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:19 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
oil wrote:

does anybody still have those documents / pdf lying around, cause its gone from their website
It's still there
for me it redirects to http://www.finehomebuilding.com/error

Just takeout the /Free and you can get it

sweet thx, that worked,

after i followed the thread now, there was not yet really explained the difference between Colorbond and Zinzalume, so lemme bump that question
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby oil » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:25 pm

is it only that:

What is the difference between Colorbond & Zincalume?
Zincalume is steel that is dipped in a zinc based product to give a protective coating. To create Colorbond sheeting, the same procedure is carried out. This is then taken one step further. The Zinc coils are placed in an oven and the colour is then baked and bonded onto the zincalume coating. Hence the name 'Colorbond'.
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby oil » Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:26 pm

Advantages of using Colorbond?
Unlike painted surfaces, it will not flake, peel or blister under the harsh weather conditions that a roof is exposed to.
Many people use Colorbond so they can match or complement the colour of their home. There is a good range of colours to choose from.
Refer to the Colorbond Colour Chart for a full range of colorbond colours.

Disadvantages of using Colorbond?
If you decide to use Colorbond, you will be 'locked in' to the colour you choose. You can paint it later on down the track if you get sick of the colour but the process is very expensive because of the difficulty of trying to get the new paint to adhere to the existing bonded surface.
Colorbond attracts more heat than Zincalume.The darker the colour the more heat it will attract. You may need to consider the use of insulation to compensate.
Colorbond as a product is more expensive than Zincalume.
If you choose Colorbond, the colour schemes of the rest of your home will always be governed by colour of the roof. You will reduce your flexibility.
The latter could become a problem when it comes to selling your home because the potential buyer may at some stage decide they want to change the colour of the house and will realize that their colour options are now extremely limited.
After a few years, the dark colours tend to fade and begin to look tired and tardy.
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Cheeryble » Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:53 pm

Hi there
I'm thinking of a metal insulated roof for a chalet in CR.

I'm considering rather than a flat ceiling to go up into the roof and line the rafters with some sort of ceiling.
This will enable me to build a bed platform up high.
A bed means I have to optimise the insulation.

So I'm considering metal roof sheeting with attached foam layer and reflective foil.
The sheets will presumably be mounted on metal rafters.
Underneath the rafters I guess would be 2x1 wood fixed to screw the ceiling to.

Question:
To screw the metal sheets down do they normal have 2x1 wood on top too, or do they screw direct to the metal rafter?
In fact I'd prefer to use a clip system......does THIS clip to a wooden stringer or direct to metal rafter?

This then raises the question.....I'd like to have a convection layer to cool the "in between" area from bottom to top.

This begs the question where can the convection fit in and how does one allow air ingress at the bottom and perhaps more difficult where to allow egress at the top (I have previously used a special convecting ridge tile with a grille in UK for the top end of artificial slate cooling.)

Anyone been through this and got it down?

Thanks!

BTW any links for a decent quality clip system?

Ps part 2
As I will have a simple roof with eaves I figured a triangular eaves vent would convert the inner room area (as opposed to the above which is converting the layer between roof surface and ceiling).
It has occurred to me that to add light I could have a louvre window each end in the top of the eaves for ventilation AND light. It would already be fitted with FLYSCREEN which is good.
So, Good idea?
If so, is there a remote method for opening and closing the louvre window that high?
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby sirineou » Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:56 pm

Cheeryble wrote:Hi there
I'm thinking of a metal insulated roof for a chalet in CR.

I'm considering rather than a flat ceiling to go up into the roof and line the rafters with some sort of ceiling.
This will enable me to build a bed platform up high.
A bed means I have to optimise the insulation.

So I'm considering metal roof sheeting with attached foam layer and reflective foil.
The sheets will presumably be mounted on metal rafters.
Underneath the rafters I guess would be 2x1 wood fixed to screw the ceiling to.

Question:
To screw the metal sheets down do they normal have 2x1 wood on top too, or do they screw direct to the metal rafter?
In fact I'd prefer to use a clip system......does THIS clip to a wooden stringer or direct to metal rafter?

This then raises the question.....I'd like to have a convection layer to cool the "in between" area from bottom to top.

This begs the question where can the convection fit in and how does one allow air ingress at the bottom and perhaps more difficult where to allow egress at the top (I have previously used a special convecting ridge tile with a grille in UK for the top end of artificial slate cooling.)

Anyone been through this and got it down?

Thanks!

BTW any links for a decent quality clip system?

Ps part 2
As I will have a simple roof with eaves I figured a triangular eaves vent would convert the inner room area (as opposed to the above which is converting the layer between roof surface and ceiling).
It has occurred to me that to add light I could have a louvre window each end in the top of the eaves for ventilation AND light. It would already be fitted with FLYSCREEN which is good.
So, Good idea?
If so, is there a remote method for opening and closing the louvre window that high?

Ok so what you are considering is called a "Vaulted ceiling", and you want to do this so that you can access the area that would ordinarily be attic space and use it as a loft space.

In the west there is a vary simple and inexpensive way to vent the roof space between the rafters, there are baffles made out of Styrofoam
Image
to allow for air movement, and create convection cooling
I dont think you could easily find these in Thailand as there is not much of a demand, but I am sure you could fabricate such a system out of tin, In fact a piece of metal roofing turned upside down would provide the necessary air space for convection.
then of course you insulate the remaining cavity with fiberglass insulation, so I am not sure if Styrofoam insulation is necessary.
Colorbond metal roofing has a clip system, I am sure other metal roofs have it also.
Image
Not necessary for wood strips, (termite food) there are metal strips designed for that use.
http://www.lysaght.com/roofing/klip-lok-406/how-to-install
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Mike Judd » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:17 pm

I must be excused for repeating myself here, but you might have missed it previously. The usual method in Oz with colourbond roofing is to lay a roll of foil insulation which has two layers of foil with air cells of various thicknesses in between,( The thicker the layer the more expensive) this is laid OVER the roof batterns so that the colourbond profile is pressed into the insulation, result no rain noise that matters.
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:33 pm

Cheeryble wrote:.

So I'm considering metal roof sheeting with attached foam layer and reflective foil.
The sheets will presumably be mounted on metal rafters.
Underneath the rafters I guess would be 2x1 wood fixed to screw the ceiling to.

Question:
To screw the metal sheets down do they normal have 2x1 wood on top too, or do they screw direct to the metal rafter?
In fact I'd prefer to use a clip system......does THIS clip to a wooden stringer or direct to metal rafter?


Wood is not a good idea as it will get eaten by the local wildlife, if you've got metal rafters then the battens should be metal too. You will find the system in many of the threads here. The ceiling if it's not a cathedral one will be suspended on aluminium strips from the rafters.
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Cheeryble » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:21 pm

sirineou wrote:Ok so what you are considering is called a "Vaulted ceiling", and you want to do this so that you can access the area that would ordinarily be attic space and use it as a loft space.

In the west there is a vary simple and inexpensive way to vent the roof space between the rafters, there are baffles made out of Styrofoam
Image
to allow for air movement, and create convection cooling
I dont think you could easily find these in Thailand as there is not much of a demand, but I am sure you could fabricate such a system out of tin, In fact a piece of metal roofing turned upside down would provide the necessary air space for convection.
then of course you insulate the remaining cavity with fiberglass insulation, so I am not sure if Styrofoam insulation is necessary.
Colorbond metal roofing has a clip system, I am sure other metal roofs have it also.
Image
Not necessary for wood strips, (termite food) there are metal strips designed for that use.
http://www.lysaght.com/roofing/klip-lok-406/how-to-install


Thanks for the thoughts Sirineou
Do you have a simple sketching application you could help me visualise the layers in the roof to show where the convection/ventilation layer would fit in? It would be much appreciated.

Thanks for the Colorbond link (though it speaks of screwing the clip into the purlin. Where I come from the purlin is a large cross beam which supports the rafters half way up.)
So what does one screw the clip into……directly into the member behind the gutter board as it looks like on the link? Oris there a tin strip or section such as one screws sheetrock into for a ceiling using those very sharp "grabber" screws?

Thanks!
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Cheeryble » Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:29 pm

Mike Judd wrote:I must be excused for repeating myself here, but you might have missed it previously. The usual method in Oz with colourbond roofing is to lay a roll of foil insulation which has two layers of foil with air cells of various thicknesses in between,( The thicker the layer the more expensive) this is laid OVER the roof batterns so that the colourbond profile is pressed into the insulation, result no rain noise that matters.


Thanks Mike.
I was at my coffee shop yesterday and noted they have one of these metal sheet roofs with insulation (not much about 5-6mm) and reflective foil underneath.
Happily there are steps up to the roof terrace.
So I felt the top which is silver colour….perhaps just galvanised.
The top was so hot one couldn't hold one's fingers there.
Amazingly the underside was not more than mildly warm to the touch.

So it looks like this combination really does a job, and it's a question of something like your rolls of insulation are necessary, and if so if they's be best used with no existing insulation/foil on the roof sheet……i.e. use with the simpler cheaper sheeting.
No doubt doubling up would improve performance ……question is how much? And at what cost?

BTW anyone have any idea of the price of rolls of foil-sided insulation as this could also be use with cement sheet roof which personally I prefer the look of and is still an option.
(Though this roof is going up in an area north of CR which had all the cement sheet roofs decimated by huge hail recently…..but this is probably once in a lifetime.)
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Cheeryble » Mon Apr 28, 2014 2:17 pm

Sirineou I just looked again at the coffee shop roof (BTW this is not an exemplary roof it is more a terrace shelter).

I note the sheets are screwed DIRECTLY into the bottom batten/beam (which is moderately substantial at 4x2in steel).
This surprises me as surely it would need a hole drilled specially through the steel for every hole.
Is this the normal arrangement and one screws the clips directly on?
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:15 pm

Cheeryble wrote:Sirineou I just looked again at the coffee shop roof (BTW this is not an exemplary roof it is more a terrace shelter).

I note the sheets are screwed DIRECTLY into the bottom batten/beam (which is moderately substantial at 4x2in steel).
This surprises me as surely it would need a hole drilled specially through the steel for every hole.
Is this the normal arrangement and one screws the clips directly on?

That is a normal, cheaply insulated, cheap metal roof you can see it in SWMBO's build of her grandmothers house.
The roof is screwed to the 2*2 battens not the 4*2 rafters and the screws are "supposed to be" self tapping. They might be if you are using the thinest steel. But it is easier to drill every hole as our builders did and do.

Using a clip system is not usual and you will only find it in special high class builds like Fred's or RR's. The usual cheaper metal roof can't use it. The only one I know of is the colour bond roofing from BlueScopeSteel. We've used colour bond but not the clip system as our roofs have no ceiling and we didn't want to risk them blowing off.
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Cheeryble » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:26 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:Sirineou I just looked again at the coffee shop roof (BTW this is not an exemplary roof it is more a terrace shelter).

I note the sheets are screwed DIRECTLY into the bottom batten/beam (which is moderately substantial at 4x2in steel).
This surprises me as surely it would need a hole drilled specially through the steel for every hole.
Is this the normal arrangement and one screws the clips directly on?

That is a normal, cheaply insulated, cheap metal roof you can see it in SWMBO's build of her grandmothers house.
The roof is screwed to the 2*2 battens not the 4*2 rafters and the screws are "supposed to be" self tapping. They might be if you are using the thinest steel. But it is easier to drill every hole as our builders did and do.

Using a clip system is not usual and you will only find it in special high class builds like Fred's or RR's. The usual cheaper metal roof can't use it. The only one I know of is the colour bond roofing from BlueScopeSteel. We've used colour bond but not the clip system as our roofs have no ceiling and we didn't want to risk them blowing off.


Does this mean you think the clips aren't strong enough STWW?

BTW I would want a ceiling as the metal or reflective foil is very unattractive. Though probably a cathedral ceiling.
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:50 pm

Cheeryble wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
Cheeryble wrote:Sirineou I just looked again at the coffee shop roof (BTW this is not an exemplary roof it is more a terrace shelter).

I note the sheets are screwed DIRECTLY into the bottom batten/beam (which is moderately substantial at 4x2in steel).
This surprises me as surely it would need a hole drilled specially through the steel for every hole.
Is this the normal arrangement and one screws the clips directly on?

That is a normal, cheaply insulated, cheap metal roof you can see it in SWMBO's build of her grandmothers house.
The roof is screwed to the 2*2 battens not the 4*2 rafters and the screws are "supposed to be" self tapping. They might be if you are using the thinest steel. But it is easier to drill every hole as our builders did and do.

Using a clip system is not usual and you will only find it in special high class builds like Fred's or RR's. The usual cheaper metal roof can't use it. The only one I know of is the colour bond roofing from BlueScopeSteel. We've used colour bond but not the clip system as our roofs have no ceiling and we didn't want to risk them blowing off.


Does this mean you think the clips aren't strong enough STWW?

BTW I would want a ceiling as the metal or reflective foil is very unattractive. Though probably a cathedral ceiling.

No. Take a look at my Waterhouse and sunshade and you will see why we didn't use clips
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Re: metal roofing and reflective foil

Postby Mike Judd » Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:16 pm

Re the clip method of fixing steel sheeting , I used on my factory in Sydney and it was the usual C sections as purloins spaced 1.2 mts apart with the clips fixed with the correct self tappers for what ever thickness of steel you are using, then the Cliplock sheeting just presses into the clips. There is no way they will blow off except maybe in a Hurricane when the whole building is blowing apart. There are plenty of old factories around still in Sydney with cement sheet roofs but no one uses it now on a new roof. Why would you , steel is lighter ,stronger and comes in one length of what ever colour you like.
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