hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

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hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jimbobs » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:07 pm

Hello guys i am currently building a house in Phon Thong , or i should say my wife is , i am in Mexico at the moment on work rotation(8 and 3) and she has coped remarkably well with the build, and 2 young kiddies to contend with, i must say it is still an emotional and expensive experience, i am a construction manager on a $50m project, and to be quite frank its a good job i am not there as i would probably have pulled half the work down, but i am not there so ignorance is bliss sometimes.
I will say that this site has been a wealth of knowledge as i am mostly on large civil contracts and i have learned alot about the thai ways, peculiarities, and strengths.
We are building a single story 3/4 bed house approximately 270m2, we are just tiling the roof and at the last count we have spent somewhere around 1.6m b (ouch) i have seen people on here spend a whole lot less and i think the materials around here are slightly higher than i 1st envisaged, any advice i can give you on western standards i might add and i will be happy to help, but with the Thai way of construction i seem to be at their mercy,,i will design and build a house myself in a few years when i can afford to take time off work (i am 42 with 3 ex wives ha ha ), so thanks for all the help and good luck
Jim
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jimbobs » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:02 am

Hi Phil
I can not pm you because i am new to this forum i think, its good to hear from you, i am from Liverpool England, but i work in Mexico, we are at the pre construction phase of building a gold mine,, i have always been interested in working in the middle east , but it never came off. I have just ordered a motorbike to go travelling around a bit more ,,getting to old for Pattaya ha ha, and i get bored in the village after a while there are no westerners at all in our village, and not many in Phon Thong so i think a motorcycle will be a good way of meeting people.
Are you going to supervise the construction yourself ? it would be worth shopping around for material prices now as that is where i have lost most of my money ,as my wife does not get economies of scale ,,bless her, i have got a new baby and shes crawling around in a shack that i deem unsuitable and unsafe , so i have just put my head in the sand and let it ride, i will construct the next one myself and to be fair the house should be quite good when its done but not what i could of done.
Anyway i hope to see you around and good luck
Jim
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby geordie » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:29 am

To be fair i consider myself fairly with it as far as constrution is concerned but i fell foul of materials being a nation of shopkeepers they will buy something chuck a few baht on it and sell it on this system applies with building materials as well They will buy from home pro do home thai watsadu - Ect add a markup and sell it to you in some instances for quite a bit more my glass blocks were cheaper in Pattaya (half the price) a couple of showers cost me slightly more than one i would have bought in the village and pattaya is notoriously EXPENSIVE :wink:
The moral it pays to shop around especially for high value stuff

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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby Richardb » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:29 pm

Hi Jim,

I am new here also. Coincidentally my wifesents are in Roi Et. Nearest town Yasothon district Suwanaphum??

I would be very interested to see what a 1.6M Baht house looks like in Roi Et ( or at least what it looks like at this stage ) As per my post introducing myself the local head and builder seems to have plucked a price out of the air to build a small house for them which is not shy of the 1.6 Million mark. If as I suspect the bigwigs are conning the old parents in law I want to give my wife the ammo to show then what a 1.6 million house looks like. Not that they will ever say boo to a goose but it helps them understand why the Falang son in law does what he does.

Thanks

Richard
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby sirineou » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:56 pm

Richardb wrote:Hi Jim,

I am new here also. Coincidentally my wifesents are in Roi Et. Nearest town Yasothon district Suwanaphum??

I would be very interested to see what a 1.6M Baht house looks like in Roi Et ( or at least what it looks like at this stage ) As per my post introducing myself the local head and builder seems to have plucked a price out of the air to build a small house for them which is not shy of the 1.6 Million mark. If as I suspect the bigwigs are conning the old parents in law I want to give my wife the ammo to show then what a 1.6 million house looks like. Not that they will ever say boo to a goose but it helps them understand why the Falang son in law does what he does.

Thanks

Richard

Hi Richard
Roi Et is a beautiful town, I had some very good friends in America who are from there, last spring we all happen to be in LOS at the same time and we met in Roi Et , I had a wonderful time and like it very much there. It was not too long of a drive from Khon Kaen where I am, no more than a couple of Hrs easy drive.
I plan to visit there again next time I am in LOS.
While I was in KKC we got started with improving a piece of property we have there, and we build a perimeter wall around it, we hired people from the village to do the work.
Several times I had difficulties with their work ethic, or what we in the west would considered professional
behavior, but there very little I could do , do to the fact that the in-laws and these people have to live together, and loosing face in the village is a fate worst than death. The dynamics of village living in Thailand are very complex and some times difficult for as from the west to understand.
I understand what you are trying to do, and your concern for your wife's parents is admirable, but I was you I would tread lightly on that subject and try to be as diplomatic as possible.
Chock Dee. :)
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby kalasin.dk » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:16 am

Hi Richard

It must be possible for you to find a couple of "farlang"-houses in the area of Roi Et. Why not knock at the door and ask? My experience have been, that people are willing to show and tell about price.
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby pipoz » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:44 pm

jimbobs wrote:Hi Phil
Are you going to supervise the construction yourself ? it would be worth shopping around for material prices now as that is where i have lost most of my money ,as my wife does not get economies of scale ,,bless her, i have got a new baby and shes crawling around in a shack that i deem unsuitable and unsafe , so i have just put my head in the sand and let it ride, i will construct the next one myself and to be fair the house should be quite good when its done but not what i could of done.
Anyway i hope to see you around and good luck
Jim


Your a reasonable distance away from me, as I am in Udon Thani sometimes.

For building my house, my guys are doing my design from here in the ME, and where practicable I am using the more typical Thai construction details, but with some added value/quality. I have the luxury of having a Thai Engineer with me here, who also doubles as a translator for the drawings for the CAD operators.

I have setlled on a site layout and house layout, just about finished the footing/slab/column design & roof design/details. I plan to build it in stages as I go back every 6-8 weeks, for short stints. I will start by building the first Stage as a Sala (basically a glorified open garage with a concrete tiled roof. Then I ill finalize the detail of closing the building in and choosing the level/type of finishes afterwards, although this too is already somewhat advanced in concept .

I am in no hurry, so I will probably built it over 12 months and 8 visits. That way can control some of the site work and my finishes during my leave periods. Each time I go back, I look around the local area, do my price checks and identify where I will buy the base materials from, agree the price.

So far I have spoken with 2 possible smaller building crews, (one did a good jo on the house just behind mt TGs place). They will just do the excavation, and provide all the labor for the foundation, ground slab, columns, roof frame and roof tile installation work (Then stop). The TGs Dad will arrange/buy the tools, reinforcement, readmix concrete, formwork materials and I will order/buy the roof steel and roof tiles on one of my next trips -then arrange for their delivery to site from a hardware store just up the road, as that owner is pretty straight.
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jazzman » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:22 am

jimbobs wrote:We are building a single story 3/4 bed house approximately 270m2, we are just tiling the roof and at the last count we have spent somewhere around 1.6m b (ouch)


Hi Jim. Welcome on board!
I'm a little confused about the prices you are quoting here, but it's quite possible I've misread something. It's almost impossible nowadays to get a turn-key solution for a house for much less than ฿10,000.00 for the minimum level of quality and standards that a 'farang' would demand (although one member reported ฿7,500 about six years ago). At today's prices, that would make the price of your house around ฿2.7 million of which 2/3 could easily be materials prices, ie. ฿1.8 mio.
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jimbobs » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:54 am

Hi Guys thanks for your response, i will post pictures soon as my wife keeps forgetting to send them as updates, and i am back in LOS on the 23rd so i will keep you informed, of progress.
i have double checked what my wife has told me but she has assured me that 1.6 m was also for the half done boundary wall 100,000b and 1 rai of land 120,000, and a further 80,000 for spoil to build up the land ,which is going to require more fill ,but i need to check my statements ,i think Richard is about right with his estimate of a 2.6m cost projection, but gardens and garage will be done later.

I have used 16mm rebar everywhere and i actually think the foundations have been over engineered, but as i say i cannot really do much from Mexico, i do think we are still better off doing it with paid labour than using a local contractor as i can buy my own materials (even if it is at an inflated cost) and because some of the thai builders use really cheap materials at least we can avoid that.

I was surprised by the cost of the roof though, the steel/paint alone was 240,000 from global house, the tiles,timber for fascia and flashings ridges/gutters was about 130,000 and the labour was 140,000 paid in 3 stages, i could have paid on a day rate but its a dangerous job and i could not be bothered having to worry about guys on the roof who are not skilled at this work ,i would hate anyone to be hurt whilst earning 400/500b or such a day, with being in the construction industry i feel quite sorry for these guys but my wife insists that is that is the going rate and will not let me pay them anymore ,when i am home i buy their food every day and a a few beers after work which my wife thinks is silly and extravagent , but i think these guys/women work hard , i have tried to work with them in the heat and i cannot keep up.

I get quite angry when guys expect loyalty and top level craftmanship off the thais when these guys are earning up to 500b a day and an english bricky/joiner will earn about 160 day and be no more loyal or professional, you pay penuts you get monkeys has always been the saying in Liverpool.
Thanks Jim
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jazzman » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:45 am

A couple of things here:

With 'much less than ฿10,000.00'' I meant of course 'per square metre'.

฿ 400 - 500 per day for labour is way over the top. In fat it's almost double, or what the highly skilled foreman might be earning. You won't get a better quality of work for paying over the odds.

For roof steel,tiles, and perimeter walls, do check out the dedicated sections of this board - members are pretty good at updating local prices they have experienced.
How to build a $20,000 / £14,000 house and a $???? MOTEL Updated 21 March 09 - with BOQ and costs
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jimbobs » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:10 pm

oh well it seems i am going to have to eat humble pie ,it appears my foreman and his crew have gone on a serious drinking session and have only been showing up for the odd half day here and there , i will need to fire them when i get back they have got to finish the roof as they are on a price but i will need a fresh crew to give the job a boost. Very disappointed it seems you where right even paying a little extra does not seem to make the Thais value their employment..oh well you live and learn
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby pipoz » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:40 pm

jimbobs wrote:.

I was surprised by the cost of the roof though, the steel/paint alone was 240,000 from global house, the tiles,timber for fascia and flashings ridges/gutters was about 130,000 and the labour was 140,000 paid in 3 stages, Thanks Jim


And this all up price of TB 510,00 for the roof metal frame, roof tile, fascia and roof labour (the whole lot) was for how many square meters of actual roof area? I know from your first post that your layout plan is some 270 m2, so possibly 300m2 of roof area if a 22 Deg pitch!, which would make it TB 1700 per m2 of roof area, which is a fair price.

Can I ask what tile manufacturer/tile type, you selected? Pressumably you also have roof insulation included under the tile?

Regards

PIPOZ
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jimbobs » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:34 pm

We have used 2 tone elephant tile and silver insulation sheeting. We also do not use any cement based products for ridges ..i am really a novice at this way of roof construction but my wifes ademant this is number 1 ha ha
I would like some advice on whether we should use insulation above the ceiling as it is basically a bungalow will isulation harbour rodents and bugs..i am basically a civil engineer an worked on house building in the uk. But not any house building in this climate.
Thanks again for your help pics will be posted tomorrow
Jim
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby jimbobs » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:39 pm

Sorry i forgot to mention we are using qblock..we call them thermalite in the uk..do you think i need them fot the internal walls..and what size would you use externally for a good u value
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Re: hello from Roi et 1st time house builder

Postby pattayapope » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:11 am

The width of your Qcon blocks should be the same as your columns so the internal rooms are square and don’t have columns protruding into room. Some people have used a double layer to get this effect, I used 20 cm wide on my build and a mixture of other widths internally, I would not recommend less than 10 cm wide but you need to consider if there will be a door way as the frame should match the wall thickness. Building Qcon walls are very quick compared to Thai red bricks walls, make sure they do not use cinder blocks these have very little strength.

One thing I found out is Qcon absorbs water if given the chance so better to make sure it is sealed properly in the bathroom otherwise the tiles will be a different shade on the bottom as the water is still in the tile. Mine are like this in my bathroom but the other bathrooms that get little use are OK.
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