Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby geordie » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:02 pm

You only want to build once so caution is the name of the game without a decent foundation you can soon end up with nothing other than problems a single story or two story ?
Arguably a single story carries less risk because the load is spread over a greater area however if the footings are desighned properly the reality is no difference although a sigle story will hike the roofing costs a double will be a slower build (working at heights) and the footings will be slightly more expensive so to that end its a personal decision but the real factor is in your twilight years do you want to be hiking up and down stairs ??
Where is your land ? some areas are known problems BKK you will almost be certain to need piles it may be another member has local knowledge the thais are just plain screwballs when it comes to fill dirt if you raised your land 4 meters the likelyhood is a Thai will buy the plot next door and raise it five ?? Half the time its un neccesary The mil build was on a slope down to a river not known to have ever flooded but all of a sudden one neighbour decided to raise 1.5 mtrs above the road ? followed by another then another and now me only i raised it 18" above the road and poured a concrete slab around the whole house so it drains instantly However as a result of their actions i had no choice given a choice i would have raised it 300mm only bare minimum to get the water out of the property unfortunately with 1.5 meters of dirt stacked against the garden wall i had to counter that before the wall fell over
Having rode around here and down to pak kret basically an hour from here the whole area was a lake ?? i just cannot see the point of worsening the issue by filling another couple of rai to create an island uneccesarily on the other hand its nice to think that you will not be wading in the living room and fishing in your swimming pool
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:11 pm

oldmajor,
When my wife and I bought our land it had been filled and settled for over a year and appeared to be at least 2 metres above the previous flood line, so I built our house 1 metre higher than that. As the location had neighbours I had to use bore piles instead of the cheaper "bang bang" piles and also because the house structure itself carried a lot of weight with an indoor swimming pool. All in all the planning alone took over 12 months and I still made mistakes. Thanks to the sage advise from the old hands here I nearly got it right though. I also read nearly all the building threads as a lurker before joining, which gave me hours of amusement and I became a cheerleader for a number of builds and all their problems. In the end, just before committing to a new house, I asked myself which I would enjoy more, a new Jaguar or a different sort of house that would outlive me. The house won out, but sometimes I still wonder why.
I found my house could have been built 12" higher off the ground than it was. My workshop could have also been split level with an above area as a workshop (above the eventual flood line) and the bottom half reserved for a wharf and boat and cars when dry.
Looking at many of the houses around me, there is extensive damage involving subsistence, so piles and foundations are a must. What you put above them dictates what you put underneath. The best place to check is either the Or Bor Tor or the Tesaban's engineering office. They can tell you exactly the type of soil and depth you'll need to drill to after you tell them what will be above it all.
The most important thing is to bounce ideas around, change your mind 100 times along the way with the final plan and adapt to the local conditions. Be flexible, but stick with the main plan.
Good luck.
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:26 pm

As you are advised , your local conditions dictate what is needed. In flood prone areas the house itself would obviously want to be above the high water mark, where as the rest to be as well drained as possible. We never had any problems around Khon Kaen last year with all the rain, none of the local rivers over flowed ,just all the remaining paddy fields had plenty of water in them, which is needed for the rice anyway. I don't know about other areas in Thailand except around Bangkok seems to be a bit of a problem with most houses needing piles. With piles I wouldn't think it would make much difference how much fill you put in, or how much of your land you want to cover. Other's would be more experienced in that regard, I just kept mine the same as everyone else who had built around the area.
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby geordie » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:55 pm

Mike Judd wrote: I just kept mine the same as everyone else who had built around the area.


This is the worry doing the same as the others around ?? Its good to have local knowledge but as max found out its not always accurate but building a mountain because the neighbour did it is not always the best way to go especially if you are in an area that has no history of flooding Thai engineering is a bit hit or miss at best i would rather trust my instincts having watched two major screw ups IE cleaning the klong and leaving the dirt on the bank to wash back in ? how sensible is that ? especially as it caused water to pool on the road
which promptly gave up the ghost and disintergrated because they put a layer of dirt/stone over the old tarmac roll it profusely then lay more tarmac the dirt gets soaked for whatever reason and the tarmac disintergrates ?? And here we go with another layer of dirt and another layer or tarmac which can disapear in days because it is permanently wet TIT lets go round again
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby pipoz » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:49 pm

[quote="geordie"][quote="oldmajor"][quote="pipoz"]Hi Oldmajor,

Correct Oldmajor, my ground floor slab will span between my beams (designed for approximately a 3.0 to 3.5 m two way span and around 150mm thick) and my beams will in turn be designed to span between my pad footings and my pad footings will then transfer all the loads down and into the undisturbed soil conditions. I anticipate having having a final 100 mm gap between the underside of my ground floor concrete slab and the top of my existing fill, and there are a number of ways I can do this.

It's a minimum/minor risk that at 600 mm or maybe 1000 mm down into the undisturbed soil condition, there will ever be any movement (up or down) of any significance, since the area doesnt flood and the undisturbed soil is reasonably impervious. At worst the area just gets some heavy rains and this wont affect the soil that far down.

Regards

pipoz
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby Mike Judd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:41 am

DSCN5192.JPG
Main road with several commercial buildings already built on filled land level with the road.
geordie wrote:
Mike Judd wrote: I just kept mine the same as everyone else who had built around the area.


This is the worry doing the same as the others around ?? Its good to have local knowledge but as max found out its not always accurate but building a mountain because the neighbour did it is not always the best way to go especially if you are in an area that has no history of flooding Thai engineering is a bit hit or miss at best i would rather trust my instincts having watched two major screw ups IE cleaning the klong and leaving the dirt on the bank to wash back in ? how sensible is that ? especially as it caused water to pool on the road
which promptly gave up the ghost and disintergrated because they put a layer of dirt/stone over the old tarmac roll it profusely then lay more tarmac the dirt gets soaked for whatever reason and the tarmac disintergrates ?? And here we go with another layer of dirt and another layer or tarmac which can disapear in days because it is permanently wet TIT lets go round again


I think you need to look at some of the photos of my land to appreciate why I filled it the way I did. First of all the road as mentioned is the main highway, not just a side road. When I said the same as others, I mean my next door neighbour (A Dane) and several commercial buildings . All who have either put a ramp across from the road as a drive way, or filled their land completely to the road, putting in the large concrete pipes as well for drainage. Not wanting to have a dam or any low lying bits to collect water at the present, I did as described. My neighbour on the other side has a very large dam and has only filled his land in the front half plus a ramp. My fill from the road is well grassed now and I ramped it down on the ends into the ditches with Granite stones (The same as others ?) that stops any erosion.
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DSCN4532.JPG
My land and neighbours with large dam in the other on the left.
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby geordie » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:15 am

Mike stop being defensive :wink: i have looked and the land looks great i am questioning the whole ethic of willi nilli private islands dotted around the country
Lemon grass in Issan chaiyaphum we moved the water tanks at the mil house they dutifully dug out and replanted the lemon grass around the new location when i questioned why ? was it some weird cultural ritual the only one that could answer was mum - it deters bugs away from the tanks the workers all know you plant lemon grass near your water tanks but not why ? is it becoming that mentality here i filled because the neighbours did ? They probably filled for no reason or a garage forecourt / factory had filled to ease access for hgvs as well as cars bikes but there is this underlying paranoia i have bought the land where can i get a couple of thousand meters of dirt from to raise it the thais as a nation are copycats which is why you will get one whole district trying to earn a living from the same industry you only have to drive around = clumps of nursery,s - clumps of tree surgeons - clumps of wooden garden furniture - clumps of metal garden furniture maybe cluster would be a better word but as soon as one thai reports his buisness success or his buisness apears to be succesful all and sundry will copy ? so one man making a reasonable living will become 20 people trying desperately to scratch a living or 200 people trying to ean a living or 2000 people trying to earn a living
Seriously get one of your neighbours to paint up some chicken claws with nail varnish explaining that you are selling them a jewelry on the internet give it a week and see how many people have offered to sell you painted chicken claws or enquired where to sell them :lol: :lol: :lol: They cannot help it we had 12 rai of farmland left dormant for 12 years why ?? some family could have earned a living and maintained it for a rent of maybe 10 baht a year but the wife and her family are jealous of someone making something out of them normal behaviour ????
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby fredlk » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:27 am

geordie wrote: the thais as a nation are copycats which is why you will get one whole district trying to earn a living from the same industry

Is Pattaya another such place? :lol:
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby geordie » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:57 am

fredlk wrote:
geordie wrote: the thais as a nation are copycats which is why you will get one whole district trying to earn a living from the same industry

Is Pattaya another such place? :lol:


From my limited experience there :wink: (all good) i would have said so the unspoken industry tends to congregate walking street for gogo bars soi six for lets get on with it soi 11 sports bars football darts pool golf (bars with teams not golf courses) nearer Pattaya klang open bars karayoke live music soi 2-3 same open bars karayoke live music i have not experienced the more specialist area,s :roll: but i am informed they exist to cater for all tastes but yes a great example of how the Thai mentality works where you get deviation from tradition - soi 11 has a couple of laydyboy bars they have farrang managment? so i am told
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Looking for a landfilling company Pakchong

Postby hvdo » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:55 am

Hi,
Seemed I have started at the wrong side of the timeplan. The land has been purchased, the builder is ready to start, the plans are ready but the land itself is not ready.
I need a landfilling company who could fill-up the land which is sloped 3m down on one edge, 2m on the other. Need approx 1000 m3, only 6-wheel trucks allowed. Location is Khao Yai, south of Pakchong, 5min from Mitraphap highway.
Any idea which company could do this job ?

Thanks, Harry



oldmajor wrote:Hello all. I would like to mention that I am a complete newb to landfill and house construction. Please go easy on me if I ask some stoooopid questions. (there will be many :D )
I have a 5 rai plot of land but intend to only fill 2 rai. Fill will be approx. 1.5 metres. The 2 rai to be filled will be a driveway from the road to the middle of the plot, the rest of the fill be for the house, carport and workshop. Will I need to build around the filled land to ensure that it stays there and settles for a year or is it safe to leave it unattended?
Thanks
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:11 am

As you seem to be ready to go ,my suggestion ? would be to do what Thai's have been doing for years. Build the house up in the air so that your foundations are in solid ground, then fill in the land where you want to, when you want to. It's mainly where your house will be that that needs a firm base of well settled ground , even then you would dig down into it for your base. Other's may suggest alternatives going by their own experiences where their land required some fill. Unless you are on sloping terrain , you really need your house at least to be above any flooding if possible, whether it's natural or from your neighbours land.
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby oldmajor » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:08 pm

OK,
Plans have changed a little........
We had a "relative" call that had machinery and a few days spare. We eventually decided that we only needed 1 rai raised to road level. If we dug the 1/2 rai pond out there would be sufficient fill for the house and garden. The rest of the land will be veggies and trees.
We test dug the land to find that it was sand down to 3 metres...at least. On this discovery, it appears obvious that piling will be required for the house and workshop.
The pictures show the sandy land and shows a rough layout.
Million Baht Question......... If I pile the house and Workshop, do I still need a retaining wal for the raised land? I don't mind some erosion and would be VERY happy to grass it for a year until we start to build. (I really don't want to go to the expense of a retaining wall unless absolutely necessary).
IMGP0002.JPG
Shows the soil used to fill. Very sandy. ranges from 1m to 2m throught the 1 rai
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IMGP0006.JPG
showing the current site
IMGP0003.JPG
The pond that provided the fill. (Please note the crew bathing facilities)
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:45 am

oldmajor,
You don't need a retaining wall for the raised land if you grass it properly now. There are a number of grasses available that would do the trick,
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby splitlid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:34 am

why piles?
sand is excellent for building on
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Re: Filling 2 out of 5 rai. Any problems?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:01 am

splitlid wrote:why piles?
sand is excellent for building on

I do NOT want to start an argument, but sand is not excellent to build on for two major reasons: liquefaction and erosion, the former and latter being major problems in not only Thailand.
If oldmajor says he needs piles, after digging down 3 metres because of the sandy soil, then he should know!
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