Compacting land

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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:14 am

geordie wrote:Good program then ?

I hope it explained that floatation is only effective when the void has water surounding it
otherwise its just part of the footings :)

Haha, yeah wasnt a bad doco, I dont mind my docos :) The way it was explained was its part of the footings, correct. If there was flooding it would help the building against sinking, similar to holding a ball under water I suppose. Im sure it all helps when building skyscrapers with that amount of weight. Point is if you build a basement below ground level, its lot less likely to cause foundation cracks as its already sunken.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:42 am

I cannot see anyone calculating a pocket of air in the basement as assisting the foundation
it would only be of use when surounded by water something that cannot be guaranteed unless you build in a swamp or at sea :mrgreen:
The deeper the foundation the less likely anything will move : its not subject to the constant heave and shrinkage from the weather drying out the soil and soaking it
The broader the footprint of the footing,s the less likely it is to movement so it stands to reason a solid slab a couple of metre,s down unafected by the weather will make a very good footing
Now all you got to do is keep the water out but given the high cost of a swimming pool which is what you are trying to mimic less the plumbing but with all the concrete all the steel ?
your normal pad foundation is cheaper
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Re: Compacting land

Postby Tommy » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:01 pm

Sorry if my question digress from the original topic..

would like to ask how heavy / thick must concrete foundation be in order to withstand load of 80tonnes?
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Re: Compacting land

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:02 pm

Tommy,
That will depend on the type of land you are building on. It will also depend on the type of piles you put down.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby Tommy » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:23 pm

RR,

will be compact land. am wondering if its required to do cement foundation for the land when those 10 wheelers drive in and out.

anyways, am starting a new thread in general section. hope you can give me some suggestions
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:04 pm

geordie wrote:I cannot see anyone calculating a pocket of air in the basement as assisting the foundation
it would only be of use when surounded by water something that cannot be guaranteed unless you build in a swamp or at sea :mrgreen:
The deeper the foundation the less likely anything will move : its not subject to the constant heave and shrinkage from the weather drying out the soil and soaking it
The broader the footprint of the footing,s the less likely it is to movement so it stands to reason a solid slab a couple of metre,s down unafected by the weather will make a very good footing
Now all you got to do is keep the water out but given the high cost of a swimming pool which is what you are trying to mimic less the plumbing but with all the concrete all the steel ?
your normal pad foundation is cheaper

It seems to be making you scratch your head :) ....A basement is used in skyscrapers to help in flotation of the building regardless of being prone to flooding etc. Think about this, why bother to build a basement then? Its second purpose is carparks, storage ,etc whatever the tennant wants really. These things could be built from the ground up much easier than digging from the ground down. The bigger the building, the more basements required, ie World Trade Centres had at least 2 basement levels. When it comes to houses to be honest I have no idea if the same thing works but Id assume it would. Anyway not building Thai skyscrapers at the moment or digging basements in houses. Hmm, just realised if we all spoke fluent Thai this forum would be much quieter I expect.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:23 pm

krisb wrote:It seems to be making you scratch your head :) ....A basement is used in skyscrapers to help in flotation of the building regardless of being prone to flooding etc. Think about this, why bother to build a basement then? Its second purpose is carparks, storage ,etc whatever the tennant wants really. These things could be built from the ground up much easier than digging from the ground down. The bigger the building, the more basements required, ie World Trade Centres had at least 2 basement levels. When it comes to houses to be honest I have no idea if the same thing works but Id assume it would. Anyway not building Thai skyscrapers at the moment or digging basements in houses. Hmm, just realised if we all spoke fluent Thai this forum would be much quieter I expect.


Krisb the only time floatation is used as part of the calculations for building is to avoid it causing a problem :?: if the water level around a swimming pool was to rise above the pool there would be a posibility (it has happend) of the pool popping out of the ground so to avoid this in a high water table you would simply add more weight (concrete base) to the pool because you cannot guarantee that the owner will keep the pool filled you have to factor that in to the calculations
Given where these high rises are built of course they add a basement and of course they add parking cars do not need a nice view so why put it above ground when you can get a nice premium on the rent

yes i am scratching my head a bit on this one in disbelief :roll:
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:09 pm

geordie wrote:
krisb wrote:It seems to be making you scratch your head :) ....A basement is used in skyscrapers to help in flotation of the building regardless of being prone to flooding etc. Think about this, why bother to build a basement then? Its second purpose is carparks, storage ,etc whatever the tennant wants really. These things could be built from the ground up much easier than digging from the ground down. The bigger the building, the more basements required, ie World Trade Centres had at least 2 basement levels. When it comes to houses to be honest I have no idea if the same thing works but Id assume it would. Anyway not building Thai skyscrapers at the moment or digging basements in houses. Hmm, just realised if we all spoke fluent Thai this forum would be much quieter I expect.


Krisb the only time floatation is used as part of the calculations for building is to avoid it causing a problem :?: if the water level around a swimming pool was to rise above the pool there would be a posibility (it has happend) of the pool popping out of the ground so to avoid this in a high water table you would simply add more weight (concrete base) to the pool because you cannot guarantee that the owner will keep the pool filled you have to factor that in to the calculations
Given where these high rises are built of course they add a basement and of course they add parking cars do not need a nice view so why put it above ground when you can get a nice premium on the rent

yes i am scratching my head a bit on this one in disbelief :roll:

Well I understand you finding it hard to believe or believing at all but its true. Im sticking to my story. Doesnt it seem to much of a coincidence that EVERY highrise has basement space?
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:58 pm

They also have a roof and lifts :mrgreen:
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:54 pm

geordie wrote:They also have a roof and lifts :mrgreen:

Haha, yes very true mate they do indeed. Well heres another one then since you mention lifts and roofs:lol: ...the first purpose of roof truss design is to keep the walls from falling down, not to support a roof. I know, nothing to do with the topic of compacting land at all, just more chit chat really :D....Ive got plenty of other quite interesting (least I think anyway) things about building if you wanna hear em?? :D
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:15 am

Kriss i understand the engineering behind that but it was more aplicable to high stone buildings which the walls consisting mainly of stone old churches/cathederals are a prime example with the trusses external
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:43 pm

geordie wrote:Kriss i understand the engineering behind that but it was more aplicable to high stone buildings which the walls consisting mainly of stone old churches/cathederals are a prime example with the trusses external

Ok well its also applicable to nearly every house in Australia (my home country). Would you like to hear another 1? :D ..ok... the reason steel reo bars can be set in concrete and used to reinforce is only possible because concrete and steel have almost identical expanding and contracting properties (hot days, cold nights etc) . If they didnt, it would fail....
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:33 pm

I find that one very feasable for the stated reason but once the steel is inside the concrete
who can prove it, if they are expanding at the same rate and temprature or not, it is not that importand the steel will flex to compensate

An argument against your staement is bamboo does not expand when heated but the thais use that as a cheap rebar ? for flooring
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:38 am

geordie wrote:I find that one very feasable for the stated reason but once the steel is inside the concrete
who can prove it, if they are expanding at the same rate and temprature or not, it is not that importand the steel will flex to compensate

An argument against your staement is bamboo does not expand when heated but the thais use that as a cheap rebar ? for flooring

Yes well thats easily answered also :D thats the good old mai bpen rai at work :lol:
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Re: Compacting land

Postby otis-a » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:59 pm

tommy asxs:
''Sorry if my question digress from the original topic.. would like to ask how heavy / thick must concrete foundation be in order to withstand load of 80tonnes?''
tommy need to break it down a little. I know there are engineers on the forum who pull answers from thin air but most practicing engineers /as opposed to speculative engineers/ work by the numbers & here is what is needed:
will u be doing a floating slab or piles or columns? Now a column can also get the piles but the pile almost always gets the shaft.
Next question is what will be the dimension upon which the 80mt sits? Do you plan standard 4m column spacing or use load bearing walls?
More details please.
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