Compacting land

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Compacting land

Postby kknaj » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:19 am

We are looking at buying some land nearby that is about 50cm below road level. I had an idea to lay the dirt in stages (20cm at a time) and compact the land using one of those conmpacting machines then water from a water truck. Doing this about 10 times alternating over about a 1 month period should make the land ready to build within a month or so right? I want the land to sit about 20cm above road level before building same as our last house.

My gf asked the architect about how it could be done and he said the same thing as I planned. Apparently this is how dams are built. It's only 70-100 delang wah so could actually be feasible.

Anyone with any experience doing it this way?

This time of year there is no rain so these 4-5 months of the year seem pretty useless in terms of compacting "naturally" A water truck is 500 baht each time x 10 is just 5000 baht. Maybe doing it more than 10 times will help but i think the biggest contributor to the compacting is using the compacting machine that thumps down into the ground.

Any experience with this would be great.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby pattayapope » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:28 am

I think your plan will work but you need a heavy roller, compaction using man operated equipment vibration compactors is not practical and probably won't compact sufficiently as they are not heavy enough.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:05 pm

kknaj,
If it's done properly, like we do dams in Australia, a small D4 dozer running over and spreading the earth/clayey soil each time it is dumped, should do the trick. If you can get a Komatasu (D8) or equivalent it would be even better. Should take a maximum of two to three days to pack it down properly, but make sure he uses his rippers at the start, just to make sure there is not a pile of plastic or old stumps under the soil that is there at the present.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:36 pm

this discusion rears up over and over how long to leave the land ect

The safest way by far is to build your footings NOW on the already compacted dirt no waiting time involved and little chamce of movement
The bonus here is less digging as even if you fill and compact you will have to dig for footings
down to terra firma
you can then at leisure fill a few cm per week and compact it with a tractor the thinner the layers the better the compact spread it thin and get a loaded truck to drive over it we have seen how well they compact :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Compacting land

Postby splitlid » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:34 pm

yes thats the way to do it Kknaj, you can increase the depth to 300mm if you want, but wouldnt go any deeper than that between compacting :D
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Re: Compacting land

Postby kknaj » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:18 pm

Thanks for the replies :)

Its good to know it was not just a crazy notion. I will however need to be there during the whole process to ensure no one tries to quicky it. I'd prefer to be safer than sorry but waiting 1 year doesnt make much sense since half the year there is no rain. It will be an interesting project.

Any data on rental prices of compacting equipment and rolling machines? The street isnt very wide and I dont think we can get a big rolling machine. Perhaps there are slightly smaller ones around?

I think i'll go with rolling AND compacting with water sprayed in between and left for a couple of days. If we can keep the overall cost down under 100,000 baht then it'll be worth it since the land is quite cheap compared to the last land.

To make the project simpler and easier to maneuver we will put the foundation piles in after all the compacting. I'd prefer the digging to be difficult than having land not fully compacted. I think machinery having to move between footing pillars will be more trouble than what its worth.

Its still scary not being 100% sure the land will be strong enough. But i trust my knowingness that correct compacting is possible without waiting. Its just a matter of getting the procedure right.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:53 pm

Knaj unless you are building a raft foundation you will still be digging to the level of original
dirt and maybe lower if the ground is soft this will give you the option of leaving a void under the floor as many others have done or simply filling with a small tractor (inside the house) and pour your floors the garden will compact itself over time and with the traffic on it building
I know of two houses near mum in law that used machines to compact and added water to the point of lakes both houses have broken back syndrome
there are a lot of variables to filling but near me they were on clay and its nothing like the clay i know if the workers washed out the tools wheelbarrow shovels ect on the land for two days it was goo for a week or more it was soft
then a crust formed on the surface as it dried but a couple of weeks later when we dug for the cess it was still evident where we had soaked and the ground was goo that you just sink into
There are several articles on the forum on how long to wait but i have seen no one bring in a machine to try and compact it quickly however there is a machine that will do it
first you have to consider that most building equipment is specifically desighed to create low ground pressure and minimize the problem of it sinking so it is on tracks or large broad tyres
this will allow it to cross soft ground or mud without compacting the oposite to what you need
what you do need is a vibrating roller and its a specific one desighned for the task it has square nobbles on the drums that misalighn so as you drive it the machine vibrates forcing
the nobbles/studs into the ground as it goes forward the rear nobbles hit between the front ones and it vibrates the hell out of everything compacting it these things come small enough
to fit in a trench but how large is questionable i have seen them used frequently in london
to reinstate the roads when they have replaced sewers gas mains ect and they do not want the road to subside also on motorway construction but huge version with water sprays to keep down dust as it is compacting stone anyway i look forward to your next build it sounds like a challenge when do you anticipate starting

I will try and find a picture later and post it

got the pictures its called a sheepsfoot roller you can google it
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Re: Compacting land

Postby kknaj » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:26 am

Hi Geordie,

Thanks for letting me know about those 2 houses that have the broken back. Will have to look more into what dirt we can get.

Also thanks for letting me know about the compacting roller with the ridges. I've seen them before so will have to look out for one in KK.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:32 am

I wouldnt bother with compacting land. Unless you have an engineer to confirm at every 200mm run that it passes his testing then its a waste of money anyway. Also you would have to organise the dump trucks, water trucks, steam roller, engineer etc either yourself or your builder and personally unless you speak good Thai or can communicate easily its all to hard. Save the headache and build a floating type slab using concrete columns every 3m and into the existing soil (not any freshly dumped soil) and dig them down no less than 1m this is a for a single storey house. Just upgrade the steel reinforced rods to a bigger size. Dont buy cheap cement. Job done. Here in Australia its very common way of building in places like Queensland plenty are built on stilts.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby fredlk » Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:59 am

krisb wrote:I wouldnt bother with compacting land. Unless you have an engineer to confirm at every 200mm run that it passes his testing then its a waste of money anyway. Also you would have to organise the dump trucks, water trucks, steam roller, engineer etc either yourself or your builder and personally unless you speak good Thai or can communicate easily its all to hard. Save the headache ..........

No headache. My land is on a slope and all that was needed was 240 trucks of soil plus a tractor with a scoop on the front. In 2 years the fill hasn't budged.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:20 pm

fredlk wrote:
krisb wrote:I wouldnt bother with compacting land. Unless you have an engineer to confirm at every 200mm run that it passes his testing then its a waste of money anyway. Also you would have to organise the dump trucks, water trucks, steam roller, engineer etc either yourself or your builder and personally unless you speak good Thai or can communicate easily its all to hard. Save the headache ..........

No headache. My land is on a slope and all that was needed was 240 trucks of soil plus a tractor with a scoop on the front. In 2 years the fill hasn't budged.


So your saying you havnt built yet and just observe the ground for movement? or you have built and just hoped it wont sink? Theres no way your land hasnt sunk. Its loose dirt all 240 dump trucks of it. Rain would have made it drop down among other things. That tractor just pushes dirt around not compact it. Similar to you we have 1/2 rah also runs downhill and got dump trucks about as many as you and the tractor with the scoop but our blocks in Issan and Issan has a bonus about 2metres down theres a hard gravel rock layer that is perfect for foundation bases.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby fredlk » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:42 pm

krisb wrote:So your saying you havnt built yet

No I am not. There's 105 pages of my building story to be found at http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1698.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:15 pm

krisb wrote:
or you have built and just hoped it wont sink?
.
If it sinks the rest of us have a problem Fred did put in a few deep fouundations :lol: he had 60-70 piles put in from memory

By the way i agree 100% guranteed nature will compact land better then we can although :lol: some times its done so slowly we fail to notice especially a larger area but as long as the foundation has gone deep enough it should not be a problem
alternatively build on a raft so if it settles it settles as a whole :roll:
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Re: Compacting land

Postby krisb » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:14 pm

A basement is also an option. I was watching a doco on tv the other week about skyscrapers.I never realised a basement is critical as it helps float the building with an air pocket. Genius idea.
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Re: Compacting land

Postby geordie » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:31 pm

Good program then ?

I hope it explained that floatation is only effective when the void has water surounding it
otherwise its just part of the footings :)
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