Is there such a thing as too much fill??

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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby BKKBILL » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:16 am

Here is a more on soils around Bangkok.

This is a small (seven page) article by Suttisak Soralump, Ph.D.

If interested just Google:

Geotecnical Engineering Problems and tentative solutions in Thailand


Bearing capacity and stability problems

The thickness and low shear strength of soft clay causes the low bearing capacity and stability problems. Thai ancestors have developed foundation technique that used to increase the bearing capacity of soft soil for almost 2000 years ago. The early techniques has been done, for examples, preloading of Phra Prathom Chedi pagoda, shallow compaction, floating foundation by series of lying logs, step footing, short wooden pile, pottery embedded foundation, etc. Those were the early techniques where concrete pile was not known. Now, pile foundation is a common practice for building foundation. For the common structures where the building load are not too large, the pile have to drive through the soft soil and tip at the first sand layer which stay at about 20 meters deep. For the high-rise building, the pile tip has to place in the second sand layer, which located at about 50 meters from ground surface and only the bore pile technique can be done. Therefore, it is not uncommon for the building in Bangkok area that the foundation cost is almost half of the total structural cost.
The problem of low bearing capacity of the soft soil can be solved commonly by transferring the load to the firm layer by the piles. Many researches in Thailand have been done to improve the piling technique in both construction and design, for example, the use of polymer-based slurry to improve the construction time and increase bore pile capacity (Thasnanipan et al, 2002).
Beside the advancement in pile foundation for buildings that solved the bearing capacity problem pretty well, another challenge problem from the thick and soft clay deposit is the excavation work problems. These excavation works include the excavation work for underground constructions, excavation work for foundation and etc. The problems are found in the form of the instability of the retaining structures, the excessive lateral displacement and etc. Therefore, it is uncommon for the small building in Bangkok area to have a basement room. However, for the high-rise buildings in the prime area, underground works are common.
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby MGV12 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:52 am

Bangkok and surrounding areas is sounding more like the Venice of S.E.Asia as each year passes.

In principle the technique of building and compacting layers works and I have seen it used in the Thames Estuary close to the Essex Marshes successfully but from BKKBill's local knowledge it sounds like Salaya is a bog too far. So if there are mitigating reasons for building there sakchai it's going to cost you big, or theirs pattayapope's suggestion of selling up and building somewhere else .... or ... we have never to my knowledge had a build story of a floating house on CTH and we like new things such as RR's indoor swimming pool; I have always fancied building a fully floating house as they do in Holland.

If anyone wants to build their house on a small hillock of their own creation somewhere in Thailand that is not practising to be beneath the waves soon ................... maybe consider layer compaction.

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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby BKKBILL » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:01 pm

MGV12 wrote: from BKKBill's local knowledge


Right you are MGV12 if I can hold out Sixty or seventy more years the place I’m now in could well be water front property. Do you think I should hold out and wait for the big bucks.

Just so you know my local knowledge extends about four meters out the front door and only above ground. :D :D
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby MGV12 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:31 pm

BKKBILL wrote:Right you are MGV12 if I can hold out Sixty or seventy more years the place I’m now in could well be water front property. Do you think I should hold out and wait for the big bucks.


I reckon it'll be sooner than that but you're all set to make your fortune in Mae Teang so I wouldn't bother ... just in case.

BKKBILL wrote:Just so you know my local knowledge extends about four meters out the front door and only above ground. :D :D


Which means that Leo supplier of yours must be your neighbour then :lol:

Yeh ... I get it ... your best mate Google again .......... :roll:

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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby geordie » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:46 pm

are you lot sugesting the situation in australia is deliberate to force up property prices ??
Or did they hear about RR,s build and get in there first
They are offering spots holidays on special deals at the moment aligator fishing/shark fishing
trips central Brisbane all in the comfort of your hotel lobby :? :? :?
My apologies and sympathies to all ausies but humor is something they are strong on

Back to reality the easiest cheapest way probably would be to build elswhere but if the op sackchai has been given the land or near work/family he may well be stuck with it we have joked about a house boat but maybe a lightweight structure Teak with a good spread on the foundations and a gradual compacted fill maybe layered with ground fabric its doable but is it cost wise worth the effort
whichever way it should be an interesting build
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby sakchai » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:34 am

pattayapope wrote:Sakchai

Your head must be spinning with the questions and answers from different members, .


Boy are you right about that! Haven't had time to read each response in detail--so much info!!

pattayapope wrote:are you starting to get cold feet


No, I'm not discouraged just glad I asked this question early on!

The land belongs to my husband and is in the family "compound" right next door to Father, and all the sibs (count 9) are within hollerin distance so it's really where we want to be.
You are all correct that it is mostly clay in the area and that the land easily converted from rice to lotus farming because it held the water well. All the homes built in the last decade are on piles and I haven't seen any major problems with cracking, sliding, etc. Just the annual flooding--which is what I want to avoid by raising the level of the land.
We do not have a finished design yet and I am handicapped here because I think in square feet, not square meters, but it will be one story, 3 separate buildings connected by a breezeway. One is 2 guest rooms with en-suite baths, one is living space, one is master eclave. I'm thinking shaped like a "U" with a pool running up the center.
The idea of a basement is really interesting. Being a bit of a wino it would be nice to have a cool area, as you say to store a small collection ....
BKKBill thank you for the reference on the article.
The property is not far from the Salaya campus of Mahidol University so It might be worth my while to see if there is an engineering department.
Haven't looked yet but I'm hoping the Thai word for this profession is in CTH "Thai Names for Construction Staff" Forum Topic.
Would be happy to receive recommendations also, if anyone knows of a qualified fella.
Muchas Gracias to all :D :D
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby pattayapope » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:27 am

sakchai wrote:Being a bit of a wino


That will take care of your monthly living allowance with the price of wine over here, way over priced compared to most country's

best of luck with your build when you get it started and keep us all posted
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby sakchai » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:39 am

sakchai wrote:Being a bit of a wino

pattayapope wrote:That will take care of your monthly living allowance with the price of wine over here, ....

Don't I know it!! I've decided to "charge" every friend and family member 2 bottles of wine each if they want to come and visit. I think that's the limit you can bring and not have to declare
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:35 am

sakchai,
Strange as it may seem there is an excellent winery in the Asoke Valley, just outside Sara Buri called Granmonte. Their 2003 Shiraz is to kill for. Or you could go for the Jakob's Creek 1999 Shiraz (8 gold medals) that has a milky look, but if you can find it, it will set you back a lot of money.
I could of course sell your family members some of both per visit, but they would have to have very deep pockets and long arms: no tax of course.
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby dbp » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:45 am

Hi Sakchai, you asked me on the other thread about my infill, here is a Google Earth Picture of the land being filled

This was done 3 years ago and we raised the land aprox 2 metres, all seemed great and we are in the process of planning our house build on this land. The land is on river Pathum Thani, as you are probably aware there was massive flooding in this area around Oct/Nov, I was horrified when I visited the land the edges of the fill on left hand side of picture felt like walking on sponge even though we were well over a metre above water level.

Maybe it was a blessing in disguise as I would have been happy to have built straight off the infill before I had witnessed the flooding. We will definately pile the land now!

Also you asked what the infill soil was like, sorry cant be of much help there apart from being able to tell you its a red colour and seems quite clayee here is pic of land now. And another picture taken from river which shows height of Land.
normal_168794_10150120318231579_581311578_7751913_5900679_n[1].jpg
normal_168794_10150120318231579_581311578_7751913_5900679_n[1].jpg (17.84 KiB) Viewed 1117 times


I will not take any chances, seems the worlds weather is entering a Flooding period with Pakistan Thailand Australia just this year :shock:

Best of Luck
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby BKKBILL » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:09 pm

sakchai, Mahidol University does have a civil engineering department at

http://www.eg.mahidol.ac.th/dept/egce/

Can’t help you with any experts as we just did what every one else was doing close to us. As you say

“All the homes built in the last decade are on piles and I haven't seen any major problems with cracking, sliding, etc.”


I think you would be better off going with the experience gained and what is obviously working in your area. Just fill the land where you need to.

It would be great to see some of the designs you have
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby otis-a » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:27 am

piles:
friend n bkk is doing a bath & kitchen adder
his property is 5 blocks from the river sitting n 'muck'
they use 4 piles per sm at 8 foot driven depth unless something solid is hit 1st- in which case the ironwood pile is cut with great difficulty
cement slab is then poured atop the driven piles
perhaps this is a decent start point for cost estimating to decide if further investment is advised for proper geotech evaluation
sounds expensive but hey bkk is hi dollar re
i really thought the homes on riverfront were cool- provided u r an urbanite- not my cup - but if it floats u boat groovy 4u!
where to park dog when in town? A barking lot... :-)))
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Re: Is there such a thing as too much fill??

Postby sakchai » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:10 am

We have decided to go with filling the land in stages to approximately where we want to end up, then go for piles--as many as is recommended by the engineer who reviews the plans recommends. After that we'll back-fil to our final level. We will start filling soon (next one to two weeks) and hopefully get a meter down before the rains come in earnest.
Working with a graphic artist on some drawings. Hope to have some designs to post soon.
Thanks for all the advice and information!!
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