How to Value Land

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Re: How to Value Land

Postby geordie » Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:42 pm

This i can only go on personal experience the thais i have come across so far will overprice a nything they can especially land They are terrified that they rent out say 12 rai of paddy and someone actually farms it dilligently making two crops a year and so having an income on a regular basis i actually suggested to my wife we rent out our 12 rai ten years ago the answer was a firm no The reason given was that we would have trouble getting the tennants off as they would argue they had more rights because they had farmed it ??? all around khaen khro there are large clumps of land left to my knowledge over ten years untouched because someone in bkk has bought it as retirement investment whatever if there is a magic formula as you seem to think please share it with me because i cannot find one go to the banks and have a look at repossesed land/houses you may be able to find a deal or by asking around the area you may be able to reach a conclusion as to how much you will need to part with but when you start adding variables as mentioned before road access electricity water nice veiws
full of trees giving an income it really is up to you to see what boxes it ticks and are YOU happy with what you want to pay for it but then its pretty much the same anywhere
my comments may be wrong but never deliberately
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby Roger Ramjet » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:42 pm

paybacs,
The land we bought was 1.2 million. It is 13 metres by 31 metres. The block next to it the owners were asking 1.7 million because it is not a corner block, which was before the floods. Now that price has come down to 1.5 million. If we buy it we can get it for 1.2 million.
The land up the road that was flooded even worse than ours is now 200,000 baht cheaper for 100 sq wah, but it's still 1.4 million.
You cannot put a price on land, however, if you go to the land department they will give you the high and low figures or their valuation for the land you wish to buy.
As you can't buy land, then you can only lease land. As it's your wife/GFs land and you're worried she'll throw you off after the house is built, get a new wife/GF you trust or do what geordie and others have said...go to a lawyer.
You can argue this point all day, but there has to be trust. Everything I own is in my wife's name. I trust her. If she dies then my daughter inherits. If she dies first then my wife keeps it in her name. I look at it as leaving something to them to remember me by.
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby payebacs » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:01 pm

Okay... true words. First of all Geordie, the reason for my asking is because i see on the internet this is, few ads with regards land for let in my target area so had been thinking if I could just establish a general sale/rent value rule of thumb, I'd, when viewing selling prices for land have a fair idea of what rental rates might be but as you point out, even if there was such a formula it wouldn't neccessarily work because x on one plot wouldn't neccessarily give y on another. Okay. I can see this. Each land to it's own. On the flip side though, if I were to own a piece of land having bought it specifically to let out, after how many years could or should I within reason be hoping to see a full return? Again, I suppose that depends on whether or not I got a good deal on it! :lol: If I paid 'too much' I'm going to have to rent it out for longer than if I paid a fair price or, I'm going to have to try to rent it out for more! So I do think there is a relationship between the two but fair enough, it's not written in stone and yes, I shall be sure to let you know if I stumble across one.. :)

Roger, I agree, however, what of the option of simply renting land from somebody totaly independent and building on that. Okay one wont have land and a house to leave behind but what if one has no family, then what is cheaper... Renting land for one's foreseeable lifetime (a 30 year lease), or buying land via a trustworthy source? Again :lol: I suppose if one thinks the 30 year lease may be cheaper, one will end up living to be a hundred and ten!
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby sunliner » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:01 pm

heres some free advice, that sunliner has always followed, and netted handsome returns :D

RULE NUMBER ONE, always buy property in a good location.

RULE NUMBER TWO, never forget, rule number one. :D
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby payebacs » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:33 pm

I shall try to memorise the list sunliner many thanks. Glad it was free cos I would have asked to pay by installments... 50% after the first half, And 50% after oops..did I sign that?! :?
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby payebacs » Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:18 am

Okay with regards value / rental ratios, one estimate that's come my way is to divide the selling price by 200 to arrive at a reasonably feasible rental rate for any thai plot. In other words a piece of land worth 200 000 baht you might hope to rent for 1000 baht a month. Does that sound reasonable. After 16.6 years the 200 000 or indeed any sum at a 200th of the cost would have been paid off.? How's that for a rule of thumb?
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby dhector » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:51 pm

I think that the way the land is priced is based on what the government says about it. And interestingly, they are the ones who dictate how much they are going for. But that is the basic price and that does not say much about how you can price it.

That is just a basic guide on what minimum price you can get for it. But in some cases, you have to make some leeway if you are interested to sell the lot.
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby sirineou » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:24 pm

IMO given the average income of Thai people , land in Thailand is now,extremely overpriced.I can't help but think that Thailand is heading for a real estate bubble.
I was fortunate enough to purchase our property, for about 200,000 bht , 6 years later the same property is selling for a little less than 1,000,000 bht. It would take an average Thai person a lifetime to save that kind of money. (ok I am exaggerating a little but a long time),
The same land in my town in Florida USA will be selling for about 600.000 bht about what an average person makes in half a year.
So I really don't get it, who is buying all the land in Thailand? and where do they get the money?
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby MGV12 » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:15 pm

sirineou wrote:IMO given the average income of Thai people , land in Thailand is now,extremely overpriced.I can't help but think that Thailand is heading for a real estate bubble.
I was fortunate enough to purchase our property, for about 200,000 bht , 6 years later the same property is selling for a little less than 1,000,000 bht. It would take an average Thai person a lifetime to save that kind of money. (ok I am exaggerating a little but a long time),
The same land in my town in Florida USA will be selling for about 600.000 bht about what an average person makes in half a year.
So I really don't get it, who is buying all the land in Thailand? and where do they get the money?


Very valid question ... when someone in the Government doesn't get enough tea money to buy yet another thousand Rai of land and blows the whistle the dung will most certainly hit the fan. Who amongst the foreign contingent here will suffer as a consequence ... why the decent rank and file members of course; who have played by the rules; you know those very grey open to interpretation rules! Note the hint of cynicism. :wink:

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby payebacs » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:35 am

My only thought is two tier pricing in reverse. ie. highest price first.. discounts for locals, not the other way round. And I say this because as falangs can't buy land how does one justify putting the price up when his thai wife is wanting to buy and not him! Easier to put it down if no such approach is made.
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby sirineou » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:11 pm

My involvement with Thailand for about six years now, is beginning to make me feel that Thailand might not be a good option for me as far as living here full time.
Thailand offers many attractions,
the simple life, the beautiful country ,the lovely Thai people that I love and appreciate so much, the freedom that lawlessness and corruption provides.
But some of this Lawlessness and corruption, can be a two sided knife that cur both ways, and it provides a number of challenges.
Two tier pricing is one of them, in small transactions might be viewed as innocuous , but does have an cumulative affect, and in large transactions can really prove to be costly, financially, and emotionally.
The financial challenge is having to pay thousands more, simply because you are Farang, and you are perceived to have gained your wealth not by the sweat of your brow, but by simply having picked it up, from the gold covered streets of the west.
The emotional is having to hide in the car, around the corner, like some eunuch, while the wife negotiates a "Thai price".
The lawlessness and corruption provides a number of opportunities.
The perimeter wall that I build here, I would not had being able to build in the west, Here I just drew some plans, hired some guys, purchased the material, and build the fence.
In the West, I would have had to find out what the local building codes are, had a drawing of what I proposed to build drawn, and signed by an architect , then I would have to apply for a building permit. The work would have to be carried out by licensed and insured workmen, once the work commenced, I would have to call for a number of inspections, first the foundation would have to be inspected before I proceed with any other work , (is it big enough, is is deep enough,did I use the right amount of steel, is it below frost grade) then, before I get the final CO, would need to be inspected , is it far enough from the street, Too high, too low, is the finished side on your neighbors side, is it the right color. After CO my property tax will have to be adjusted, as now my property is worth more and tax is based on 80% of appraised value X millage. All these provide many challenges, but also provide many protections.
The Lawlessness in Thailand provide the freedom to do what you want, but one thing for sure, you are on your own.
I would never buy a pre-existing structure in Thailand,I have no Idea what the did inside the structure, did they use the right amount of steel, right concrete, is the foundation strong/deep enough, etc) even with Fartang builds, I see practices that in the west would never pass inspection, and once they are covered up you would never know existed, untill later on when you find your investment falling apart around you.
Getting back to Land, and for that matter any real-estate transaction. Having being a licensed real estate broker, and worked for a Century 21 franchise for many years, this is something I know a little bit about.
How does anyone does a Property appraisal in Thailand? How do the banks do it? how do they lend Money?
In my neck of the woods, there is a board of Realtors, every transaction is placed in the multiple listing service (MLS) that all Realtors and appraisers have access to. There you can find information such as , listing date, and price, length of time in the market before sale, adjustments in price before sale, actual sale price, and property pertinent information. It is easy when viewing a property, and want to determine it's value, to go to the MLS, pull recent sales in that area, make adjustment for size and age, and get a realistic picture of what this property is worth here and now.
How do you do it in Thailand???
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby MGV12 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:25 pm

sirineou wrote:How do you do it in Thailand???


You live with the dilemma, you get by in spite of the dilemma, you ignore the dilemma.

And finally ... and perhaps most importantly ... is your wife aware of your quandary?

Florida no doubt has it's limitations .. so where else are you considering?

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Re: How to Value Land

Postby sirineou » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:37 pm

MGV12 wrote:
sirineou wrote:How do you do it in Thailand???


You live with the dilemma, you get by in spite of the dilemma, you ignore the dilemma.

And finally ... and perhaps most importantly ... is your wife aware of your quandary?

Florida no doubt has it's limitations .. so where else are you considering?

Despite it's limitations, I love Thailand, and my Thai family, and I miss them very much.
It is Funny, when I get "Home sick" it is not for the US, it is for Thailand.So I guess I have started considering Thailand as home, warts and all.
That is the emotional aspect of it
,But.. There is also the pragmatic side of affairs to consider. and for me there are many,
I must consider the immigration policy limitations, Medical care limitations, property ownership limitations, etc. and come to terms with them.
As of now, I cant pick up live stock and barrel and move to Thailand. For starters I have to consider my medical situation and the fact that pre-existing conditions are not covered in Thailand for a reasonable cost.
Property costs in Thailand are still relatively inexpensive , for a couple of million baht you can build nice house, not a lot of money by western standards, so I will build the house in Thailand. The house is not only for me, it is also something for my wife to have when I pass away, and might no longer want to stay in the US.
And for now I will divide my time between here and Thailand.
As time passes, who knows, I don't have a crystal ball, I don't know. If my heart condition worsens, I might have to spend part of my time in the US for medical care,and part of my time in Thailand, If it does not, maybe I will change my tune. :)
One thing for sure, one way or an other, Thailand will always be in my future, and in my heart,No pun intended. :lol:
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby Mike Judd » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:46 am

As a young 82yr old, still fit apart from a bit of Asthma, that's well under control. I found the challenge of buying land and building a house in Thailand, just what I needed when I had reached that time in life when all you have to think about is the past. Having been so lucky to have found a Thai partner who is not only beautiful in body, but in spirit also. After the initial wariness on her part as to what to expect from this "Farange" nearly twice her age, we have a ideal relationship in every way although I tend to be slowing down a bit lately after 11 yrs together. The point I make is compared to western land prices, land and building houses in Thailand is still so cheap. If you have no money, you have a problem ! but selling most places in the West should give you more than enough to set up in Thailand. All I want to do in the time I have left, is finish the house and set my partner up so that she never has to struggle again. I find it so easy to make life a bit better for the average Thai after what most of them go through in their daily struggle for life. The smile on their faces is reward enough.!
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Re: How to Value Land

Postby payebacs » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:55 pm

How to value land? Build a house on it. And enjoy. :) Wrong interpretation I know but all roads lead to rome. home. priceless.
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