Hybrid Storyboard

Any story related to building in the LOS, whether everything turned out hunky dory or not!

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Hybrid Storyboard

Postby hybrid » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:42 pm

Hi everyone ..
i'll keep this thread updated with pictures, progress & problems as time goes by ..
but for now just a few pics of the plot of land i have just purchased .
500metres from macraban lake , pattaya
now i first need to decide what to put on there , a house or bungalow .
the land cost 600,000 baht after we haggled them down a little.
and the target budget for the build is 1,500,000 baht . to make something with 3 bedrooms (2 bed/1 office) , 1 ensuite bathroom, 1 bathroom, large living area, a pool would be nice :D but we'll see how the budget goes.
my preference is a house, but unsure if the budget will get me that far .
have looked carefully at the house plans on crossy's website .. i love number 13 for a house .. but cannot see how i could build this for anywhere near the 1.6mill price tag on there , even with the 4 years infaltion on materials

so here's my 1st shots of the land .. nice and flat .. 1st 2 are taken 9 months ago when the previous owner bought it to make some money on the local inflation on land :evil:

and the next 3 are it now before i get any work started
Attachments
simon123 012.jpg
now
simon123 011.jpg
now
simon123 009.jpg
now
macraban.jpg
last year
hybrid
 
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Postby jazzman » Sun Aug 12, 2007 8:35 pm

Hi Simon,

Welcome on board. Looks like a nice piece of land. You would be well within your budget if you do it this way:
http://coolthaihouse.com/cthpics/thumbnails.php?album=6

You'll get lots more tips too by checking out the main pages here: http://coolthaihouse.com/index.php

You should even have enough money and space left over for your pool (DO check out the advice on this site).
jazzman
 
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Postby hybrid » Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:39 pm

oh what fun this is . haha
so far we have had some confusion about land size .
paperwork seems to say we have 100tw/1ngan or presicely 396sq metres..
measuring it proving interesting as different people have come out with different sizes for me , although it is an apex shape at the rear or something so it depends how much grass the person wants to climb thru .
we know it is at LEAST 14meters wide, probably 14.5m .. then lenth is at least 21metres at its shortest point and may well be upto 27 metres ! only a mere 100 sqm we are having problems locating :D

so very preliminary plans are being based on a 14m * 21m plot and all extra land we find is a bonus .

my 1st draft of floorplan idea's are here . very prelimenary as its not been costed up and no idea if its even possible .
the garage is in fact meant to be a car port however learning to use cheif architect is fun and have no idea if a car port is even in there !

but i like my idea so far . will continue to post as it develops
unsure on hallway widths, i suspect 1m is no good. door and windows are wrong. and also think the laundry is rarther badly located.
but heck .. this is 1st draft of an idea
enjoy.
Attachments
hybrid-plan01-1.jpg
hybrid-plan01.jpg
hybrid
 
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Postby songkran » Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:45 pm

That looks as if it could be the start of something really nice, particularly with the spa in the atrium. It's certainly a solution where you can take the walls of the house up to the perimiter wall to maximise on your building space - and not have the neighbours rubber-necking!

Of course , you would need a lot of full glass frontage to do justice to the spa, and that might involve some cost. Glazing and exterior doors of the kind that would look nice there could be up to 50% of your materials budget.

The U-shape plan involves a lot of roof-work too and with the spa, you'll probably need to calculate quite a bit beyond 1.50 mil baht.
songkran
 
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Postby cruzing » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:13 am

songkran wrote: It's certainly a solution where you can take the walls of the house up to the perimiter wall to maximise on your building space - and not have the neighbours rubber-necking!


Despite what many think, there are zoning laws here and they require that you build a minimum of 2 meters from the property line.

The general disrespect for the law and one's neighbors is what causes a lot of overcrowding, inaccessibilty and fire hazard, just to name a few.

Cruzing
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Postby hybrid » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:13 pm

cruzing wrote:
songkran wrote: It's certainly a solution where you can take the walls of the house up to the perimiter wall to maximise on your building space - and not have the neighbours rubber-necking!


Despite what many think, there are zoning laws here and they require that you build a minimum of 2 meters from the property line.

The general disrespect for the law and one's neighbors is what causes a lot of overcrowding, inaccessibilty and fire hazard, just to name a few.

Cruzing


yes .. have just come accross this. my girlfriend is on site (as in standing on the land) as i read , and just had a phone call waking me up in the UK , lol
telling me my plans are too big ..
i was under the impression it was a 1 metre gap needed ... so the 2 meter i'm now being told as well .. back to the drawing board
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Postby songkran » Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:41 pm

Probabably a return to a more conventional design would make it easier on your budget too. You could still put a small pool in front or behind the house. It may be an idea to base your plans on a house you know will fit both the land and the budget. Adapting an existing model can also be fun, and you know that Thai builders would be able to cope with it.
songkran
 
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Postby hybrid » Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:41 am

songkran wrote:Probabably a return to a more conventional design would make it easier on your budget too. You could still put a small pool in front or behind the house. It may be an idea to base your plans on a house you know will fit both the land and the budget. Adapting an existing model can also be fun, and you know that Thai builders would be able to cope with it.


aleady have one quote in on my design , shell build with pool at 1.6m , suspect this does not include pump/filtration or anything for pool though .. they said the pool section was around the 400k baht price .. and the house was 1.2m ..
need to mod the design slightly to cut about 20cm off the sides to get within the 2m either side thing .. which does not seem much until it comes to doing it ! the design was very tight as it was .. however on a good note i have better measurements in now . and as such have more land to play with ..
frontage 15m
right hand side 26.8 meters to rear
left had side 22.9m meters to rear
then from the large side of rear (26.8m) it runs parralel with the front then becomes a cut off corner of the recrangle ..

i had based my original plans on 14.5 * 21 .. so now i have a bit more the play with on lenth . and as said need to lose a fraction on the width still .. .. may expand further back and enlarge the middle pool/garden section a little more ..
i don't think any space in excess of the 2m perimiter will be of use , so the name of the game is make what we have central maxxed out .

on a funny note i was talking to the GF earlier about this plan., . and she was asking me why i was trying to hard on the middle garden/pool section ..
i said you should know dear ! . a nice private section for nudist swimming and so i can get a all over tan :D. .. she went very quite and did;nt ask another question for ages :twisted:
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Postby songkran » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:02 am

hybrid wrote:aleady have one quote in on my design , shell build with pool at 1.6m , suspect this does not include pump/filtration or anything for pool though .. they said the pool section was around the 400k baht price .. and the house was 1.2m ..


This is very interesting. A builder, or even an architect or a consultant who can make off-the-cuff quotes like that based on an unusual floor plan alone without knowing the kind of roof you would like, or the type of walls, the kind of windows or the quality of the tiles and sanitary fittings, and the kitchen equipment must be psychic.

Or by 'shell build' does he mean like in German 'Rohbau' - just the raw unrendered walls, floors without tiles, no ceilings, windows, electrics, fixtures, and fittings? That could figure. But 400 k for the small pool with a standard finish should include some, if not all of the plumbing. But then again, you can get pool tiles from 180 to 1,500 baht per square meter. Did he know which ones you want?
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Postby hybrid » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:43 am

songkran wrote:
hybrid wrote:aleady have one quote in on my design , shell build with pool at 1.6m , suspect this does not include pump/filtration or anything for pool though .. they said the pool section was around the 400k baht price .. and the house was 1.2m ..


This is very interesting. A builder, or even an architect or a consultant who can make off-the-cuff quotes like that based on an unusual floor plan alone without knowing the kind of roof you would like, or the type of walls, the kind of windows or the quality of the tiles and sanitary fittings, and the kitchen equipment must be psychic.

Or by 'shell build' does he mean like in German 'Rohbau' - just the raw unrendered walls, floors without tiles, no ceilings, windows, electrics, fixtures, and fittings? That could figure. But 400 k for the small pool with a standard finish should include some, if not all of the plumbing. But then again, you can get pool tiles from 180 to 1,500 baht per square meter. Did he know which ones you want?


as far as i know he knew nothing at all about my plan other than seeing the floorplan i came up with .. i assume hes either very very good :? or very very bad and is working on total guesswork. lol
i'm trying to clarify how serious an offer it is atm on the price as it is my g/f who spoke to them. she says roofing, and all other things were spoken about. my worries are spoken about to my standard or thai standard tho . i do not want ot be unfair on the gf tho .. she supervised a build for her parents near sakeo on a 2 bed bungalow and i must say it turned out very very well considering it only cost 300k baht. i saw many shortcuts being done while they were doing it which i would not accept on my own house !! one of which i found quite amusing (unsure if its normal shortcut or a local special one lol) they used bambo sticks crossed on the flooring concrete instead of any metal !
hence my thread in the general section of this site asking what questions i should be asking a builder to establish we are both talking the same quality

it was a shell quote tho .. no kitchen, just water-in valves and dirty water out, and bathrooms with a showerhead/water in . which i'm happy with a shell price as a freind who wants a free holiday is a kitchen guy so he gets to camp for free and a i get a fitted kitchen (until he gets collared for working in my house and gets deported lol).. but yet to clarify the full meaning of shell so have lots of Q's still to ask .
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Postby songkran » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:13 pm

After chechking in the Leo, "shell" does indeed translate into "Rohbau", which is:
    no rendering on the walls
    no floor tiles or coveriings
    no door frames
    no window frames
    no sanitary fittings
    no kitchen fittings
    no electrics
    no ceilings
    probably no tiles on the steel roof truss
    concrete swimming pool shell, no pumps, filters, ul llights, fittings or tiles, no deckiing

This means all the things that the customer would have to choose because they are non-structural items. If you happen to see a house in this state, you can't always be sure if it's one in course of construction, or one that's been abandoned after an earthquake!
songkran
 
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Postby hybrid » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:01 am

songkran wrote:After chechking in the Leo, "shell" does indeed translate into "Rohbau", which is:
    no rendering on the walls
    no floor tiles or coveriings
    no door frames
    no window frames
    no sanitary fittings
    no kitchen fittings
    no electrics
    no ceilings
    probably no tiles on the steel roof truss
    concrete swimming pool shell, no pumps, filters, ul llights, fittings or tiles, no deckiing
This means all the things that the customer would have to choose because they are non-structural items. If you happen to see a house in this state, you can't always be sure if it's one in course of construction, or one that's been abandoned after an earthquake!


well .. shell was what i called it .
everything above is included other than kitchen
and the only thing i've noticed not on the list so far that they have provided is skirting board for some strange reason .
i'me somewaht amazed in fact how comprehensive the lincluded list has been
as yet i have not been furnished with the total price .. they are saying its around 1.5m , tho and they will provide this ealry next week ..

below is summary for quote (ran thru an ocr package so text maybee screwed)

1. C-pacmonia roof tile, red colour
2. Windows and glass doors are white aluminum 1.2mm with clear glass 5mm,
3. The height is can be about 2.90m-3.00m.
4. The height from floor to roof, will check it from the plan, we need to make sure about the roof angle, for hip roof style will use at about 27-30 angle
5. Can raise the house above 50cm but normally is only 40cm because it might have to make a step
6. Floor in side must be concrete 10 cm,
7. The house wall is double gray bricks for outside, single for inside
8. Price for swimming pool is all included, ready to swim
9. The cement to use, they are difference type TPI for build the wall and tiger plus for plaster
10. Regular grey bricks with 3.5"x8"x16"
11. Foundation post hole is I meter square and 1 meter deep
12. Beams are 20cm x 40cm
13. Concrete is mixed,10cm. and carport at about I 5cm
14. Water tower, water heater, gutter are not included
15. The perimeter wall is not included
Normally single grey bricks
Smooth plaster in and out side
Paint in white
Beam 15cmx30cm
Foundation post hole 60mx60mx20m (think this is wrong !!!)
Price is 2,800baht/m
16. The pool tile is tile TO 4"x 4" price 250 baht/sqm

1. Construction
1.1 Foundations use steel DBl2mm,DB 16mm, RB6mm, RB9mm 1.2 Concrete footing with columns and beam
2. Wall
2.1 External and internal wall will be double block as the plan 3.5"x8"x16" 2.2 Internal wall will be single bricks and plaster smooth with gypsum past 2.3 External will be plaster
3. Roof
3.1 Flame steel as the plan
3.2 C-pacmonia roof tile, red colour
4. Ceiling
4.1 Internal ceiling will be gypsum board 9mm 4.2 External ceiling is wood 1/2"x2" airflow 1cm
5. Doors and windows
5.1 Windows and glass doors are brown aluminum I .2mm with clear glass 5mm 5.2 Bedroom doors are hard wood 2.00mx0.80m natural colour
5.3 Kitchen doors are hard wood 2.00mx0.80m natural colour
5.4 Toilet doors are hard wood 2.00mx0.70m natural colour
5.5 Entrance door is teak wood natural colour
6. Sanitary
6.1 Septic tank 1,000L
6.2 Thai PVC class 5,8.5.13.5
6.3 Toilet from cotto, Sharon C 1440 in white 2 sets 6.4 Basin from cotto 00005 in white
6.5 Toilet counter, concrete with black chaines granite 6.6
7. Floor
7.1 Floor tile 16"x16",price 250 baht/sqm
7.2 Toilet floor tile 10"x12",price 250 baht/sqm

8. Electricity
8.1 Electric piping in wall, yellow and grey pipe
8.2 Standard wires THW
8.3 Switches and plugs are national
8.4 I point of telephone line in living, 1 point in master bedroom, I point in office 8.5 I point of television in living, I point in master bedroom, I point in kitchen 8.6 I Load center 12 channel, 1 phase with I 5Am
8.7 Main electric underground from the house to the wall is not longer than 15m
9. Paint
9.1 Internal and external paint is Jotun jota shield all in white 9.2 Door paint will be natural colour
10. Water heater 10.1 System piping in wall, in 2 toilets and I kitchen
12. Swimming Pool
12.1 Skimmer System 5 x 4m deep 1.10 to I .80m (TCI tile 4"x 4" price 250 baht/sqm)
12.2 Pump house is WI.60 x L2.00m x 2.00m Pool system
-Sand filter Boss 25"
-Pump Boss I HP
-Skimmer 1 set
-Pool light 2 sets
-Control box
-Ball eye 4 sets

Remark: This price is excluding
-VAT7%
-Curtain and furniture
-Perimeter wall
-Main water and electric from government
-water heater, Gutter
-Solar foil
-Air-condition
-Skirting and architraves
-Mosquitoes net
hybrid
 
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Postby rosegate » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:00 am

hybrid wrote:
songkran wrote:After chechking in the Leo, "shell" does indeed translate into "Rohbau", which is:
    no rendering on the walls
    no floor tiles or coveriings
    no door frames
    no window frames
    no sanitary fittings
    no kitchen fittings
    no electrics
    no ceilings
    probably no tiles on the steel roof truss
    concrete swimming pool shell, no pumps, filters, ul llights, fittings or tiles, no deckiing
This means all the things that the customer would have to choose because they are non-structural items. If you happen to see a house in this state, you can't always be sure if it's one in course of construction, or one that's been abandoned after an earthquake!


well .. shell was what i called it .
everything above is included other than kitchen
and the only thing i've noticed not on the list so far that they have provided is skirting board for some strange reason .
i'me somewaht amazed in fact how comprehensive the lincluded list has been
as yet i have not been furnished with the total price .. they are saying its around 1.5m , tho and they will provide this ealry next week ..

below is summary for quote (ran thru an ocr package so text maybee screwed)

1. C-pacmonia roof tile, red colour
2. Windows and glass doors are white aluminum 1.2mm with clear glass 5mm,
3. The height is can be about 2.90m-3.00m.
4. The height from floor to roof, will check it from the plan, we need to make sure about the roof angle, for hip roof style will use at about 27-30 angle
5. Can raise the house above 50cm but normally is only 40cm because it might have to make a step
6. Floor in side must be concrete 10 cm,
7. The house wall is double gray bricks for outside, single for inside
8. Price for swimming pool is all included, ready to swim
9. The cement to use, they are difference type TPI for build the wall and tiger plus for plaster
10. Regular grey bricks with 3.5"x8"x16"
11. Foundation post hole is I meter square and 1 meter deep
12. Beams are 20cm x 40cm
13. Concrete is mixed,10cm. and carport at about I 5cm
14. Water tower, water heater, gutter are not included
15. The perimeter wall is not included
Normally single grey bricks
Smooth plaster in and out side
Paint in white
Beam 15cmx30cm
Foundation post hole 60mx60mx20m (think this is wrong !!!)
Price is 2,800baht/m
16. The pool tile is tile TO 4"x 4" price 250 baht/sqm

1. Construction
1.1 Foundations use steel DBl2mm,DB 16mm, RB6mm, RB9mm 1.2 Concrete footing with columns and beam
2. Wall
2.1 External and internal wall will be double block as the plan 3.5"x8"x16" 2.2 Internal wall will be single bricks and plaster smooth with gypsum past 2.3 External will be plaster
3. Roof
3.1 Flame steel as the plan
3.2 C-pacmonia roof tile, red colour
4. Ceiling
4.1 Internal ceiling will be gypsum board 9mm 4.2 External ceiling is wood 1/2"x2" airflow 1cm
5. Doors and windows
5.1 Windows and glass doors are brown aluminum I .2mm with clear glass 5mm 5.2 Bedroom doors are hard wood 2.00mx0.80m natural colour
5.3 Kitchen doors are hard wood 2.00mx0.80m natural colour
5.4 Toilet doors are hard wood 2.00mx0.70m natural colour
5.5 Entrance door is teak wood natural colour
6. Sanitary
6.1 Septic tank 1,000L
6.2 Thai PVC class 5,8.5.13.5
6.3 Toilet from cotto, Sharon C 1440 in white 2 sets 6.4 Basin from cotto 00005 in white
6.5 Toilet counter, concrete with black chaines granite 6.6
7. Floor
7.1 Floor tile 16"x16",price 250 baht/sqm
7.2 Toilet floor tile 10"x12",price 250 baht/sqm

8. Electricity
8.1 Electric piping in wall, yellow and grey pipe
8.2 Standard wires THW
8.3 Switches and plugs are national
8.4 I point of telephone line in living, 1 point in master bedroom, I point in office 8.5 I point of television in living, I point in master bedroom, I point in kitchen 8.6 I Load center 12 channel, 1 phase with I 5Am
8.7 Main electric underground from the house to the wall is not longer than 15m
9. Paint
9.1 Internal and external paint is Jotun jota shield all in white 9.2 Door paint will be natural colour
10. Water heater 10.1 System piping in wall, in 2 toilets and I kitchen
12. Swimming Pool
12.1 Skimmer System 5 x 4m deep 1.10 to I .80m (TCI tile 4"x 4" price 250 baht/sqm)
12.2 Pump house is WI.60 x L2.00m x 2.00m Pool system
-Sand filter Boss 25"
-Pump Boss I HP
-Skimmer 1 set
-Pool light 2 sets
-Control box
-Ball eye 4 sets

Remark: This price is excluding
-VAT7%
-Curtain and furniture
-Perimeter wall
-Main water and electric from government
-water heater, Gutter
-Solar foil
-Air-condition
-Skirting and architraves
-Mosquitoes net


That sounds like an incredibly good price for what they have offered, go for it, I could not get any price close to that, even with the extra bits you need to add on only looks like around 1.8 million, real good price go for it ASAP
rosegate
 
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Location: Pattaya

Postby jazzman » Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:25 am

rosegate wrote:That sounds like an incredibly good price for what they have offered, go for it, I could not get any price close to that, even with the extra bits you need to add on only looks like around 1.8 million, real good price go for it ASAP


I'll second that :D
Well done Rosegate :!:

They've quoted for very cheap (and nasty) materials on some things. I'm suspicious aboutit.

BTW: is there any need to keep quoting these huge long postings every time we answer?
jazzman
 
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:11 pm
Location: Thailand

Postby dozer » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:50 pm

Hybrid - A belated welcome from me to the forum. I hope you keep up with the postings - it will be great following along. I really like your house plan, the U shape Bali style is really nice and gives a focal point to the house. I had looked at a similar design for a future house project myself. The prices quoted on the bid do indeed seem reasonable, I would check out some of the guys work to see if it is up to stuff (ie. no bamboo hidden in the flooring, etc!)

I also encourage you to post some stuff over to the photo gallery as you get started at http://www.coolthaihouse.com/cthpics .
dozer
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