Bang Saray House Build

Any story related to building in the LOS, whether everything turned out hunky dory or not!

Moderators: MGV12, BKKBILL, fredlk

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby Klondyke » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:57 pm

A simple calculation of surface of the foundation pressing onto the soil underneath - example for a house 12m x 12m:

- foundation wall length 12+12+12+12 = 48m x width of the wall 0.4m, total surface 48m x 0.4m = 19.2 m2
- 20 columns, each with pad 40cm x 40cm, total surface 20 x 0.4 x 0.4 = 3.2 m2
even if the number of columns is 40 (surely oversized for a house of 12x12m) and the pads are 50x50cm, the total surface is 40 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 10m2

When the foundation wall is reinforced by 2 or 4 horizontal rebars, the whole structure is one rigid ring. Unlike at the "saus" when they are not interconnected, each for itself (yes I know interconnected by the heavy and difficult vertical beam structure). And the wall structure erected in-between is usually not well connected with columns (and the beams either). So in addition, for the walls a foundation has to be erected anyway.

A foundation walls are "unusual" in Thailand (I agree), unlike in other countries where are "usual"...

As I have remarked here before, in Thailand the house was always made/started by teak columns, then hurry with the roof (yen, yen). The walls have not been so important, perhaps in 2 - 4 months, or next year. When the teak is no longer easily available, we do it in the same way, just instead of teak we use concrete, so cheap in Thailand. And for the walls instead of teak, what is available? Oh yes, bricks or cement blocks, so cheap in Thailand. The procedure is the same...
Klondyke
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:51 pm

Klondyke wrote:When the foundation wall is reinforced by 2 or 4 horizontal rebars, the whole structure is one rigid ring. Unlike at the "saus" when they are not interconnected, each for itself (yes I know interconnected by the heavy and difficult vertical beam structure). And the wall structure erected in-between is usually not well connected with columns (and the beams either). So in addition, for the walls a foundation has to be erected anyway.

The "factory" near us was built using your method and is currently sinking slowly with some huge cracks appearing in the walls and I wouldn't work in it, but our soil is ex rice paddies and as they did it on the cheap, they just used pad footings without the bore or driven piles, as well they loaded it with heavy machinery and their floor (concrete) was only 4 inches or 10 Cms thick and has now broken into sections.
My wife has had a run-in with the owner after they used a steel cutter all night long with no rubber matting, so she called the police at 0400 hrs and then the Or Bor Tor engineer at 0830 hrs.
They (the owner) is now starting to build another "extension" next to it and will pull down the old one (3 years old) as soon as they get the permit. To stop this one going through the same process they hired a traxcavator and bought in gravel which the dumped 10 foot under the old rice paddy soil and then put the rice paddy soil over the top. They are trying to save on bore piles and use pads instead. I can tell you now it won't work as my wife has spoken to the Or Bor Tor engineer who said on the plans submitted they have driven piles, but it is too close to our house to use them, so he changed the plans to bore piles. They will just go ahead and put in pad footings and in 4 years the new "factory" will be the same as the one falling down.
This time my wife will call the police as soon as they start their unauthorised work and also the Or Bor Tor engineer and I will go and get the district chief and take him for another ride in my car.
Personally I don't care how my wife handles it, but I'm not going to watch another slipshod half arsed Thai effort near my house. It's why I pay the police 1,000 baht a month and have a good relationship with the Or Bor Tor Chief and Engineer.
I do detest people that submit plans for a warehouse in a residential building area and then change them to a factory because nobody says anything. The Police Colonel speaks English and I've signed complaints before. Pad footings just won't cut it in our area.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5333
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:34 am

Klondyke wrote:When the foundation wall is reinforced by 2 or 4 horizontal rebars, the whole structure is one rigid ring.


Well it is the standard practice to make a ring beam with horizontal rebar. Have you visited building sites? From the information that you are posting, you seem not to have done that.


Unlike at the "saus" when they are not interconnected, each for itself (yes I know interconnected by the heavy and difficult vertical beam structure).


The posts (saus) are very often poured in place and as such are are completely interconnected. It is only with single story, on ground, light weight structures that precast posts are ever used.

By the way a vertical beam is called a post!! :? If it is horizontal then it is usually a beam or foundation.

And the wall structure erected in-between is usually not well connected with columns (and the beams either).


That depends on the builders and the building design as well, most walls are well connected to the posts some are not, few walls need to be connected to the beams other than by the mortar used between the rows of material used in building. It is not usual for walls to fail at the junctions with the beams.

Many/most walls have a horizontal lightweight beam cast in place half way up so interconnecting with the posts is usual.

So in addition, for the walls a foundation has to be erected anyway.

Of course it does, nobody puts a wall directly on the earth (though being pedantic foundations are usually dug rather than erected, and the term for the structure under a wall is commonly called a footing)

Foundation walls are "unusual" in Thailand (I agree), unlike in other countries where are "usual"...


You should really listen to RR about the reasons why doing something on the cheap without proper planning using qualified designers is really a very bad, and often expensive, idea. Why pushing the concept of a foundation and load bearing wall structure will often (in Bangkok always) be a recipe for disaster, many of the areas used for building in Thailand need concrete pilings (Bangkok always does) so the post and beam structure is optimal.

Your claims of speed and cost savings are dubious. Can you get a building like grandmums house built faster than 5 weeks and for less than 360,000 Baht by local workers using load bearing walls? http://bit.ly/GMnewHouse
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1941
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:54 am

Klondyke wrote:A simple calculation of surface of the foundation pressing onto the soil underneath - example for a house 12m x 12m:

- foundation wall length 12+12+12+12 = 48m x width of the wall 0.4m, total surface 48m x 0.4m = 19.2 m2
- 20 columns, each with pad 40cm x 40cm, total surface 20 x 0.4 x 0.4 = 3.2 m2
even if the number of columns is 40 (surely oversized for a house of 12x12m) and the pads are 50x50cm, the total surface is 40 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 10m2


Your math is correct, but it isn't complete, you have missed out the area of the wall footings which add a minimum of 9 square metres at 20cm width.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1941
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby Klondyke » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:47 am

^
I would not like to get involved in a lengthy argumentation with you (as you obviously are very fond of).
Just to say sorry for my mistakenly mixed vertical for horizontal. Of course I know that a "vertical beam" is a post or a sau, that's all the discussion about.

As a matter of fact, my long life has been spent in construction/engineering business, although not really making foundations. Of course a foundation wall can be made with or without reinforcement, whether it is correct or not I do not question. So, no need to insinuate whether:
Have you visited building sites?


This I dare to doubt:
The posts (saus) are very often poured in place and as such are are completely interconnected.


And that somebody witnessing a 'slow sinking of a factory'? What does it prove?

Anyway, it depends on a common sense how to design a house for a given situation what it really needs, that's was my humble post...
Klondyke
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby tertim » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:22 pm

Hi furryferret

I think Klondyke has some good advice but I would take it a stage further and construct a raft foundation, as the name would suggest it basically floats on top of the ground.

A reinforced concrete slab incorporating a ring beam and a few tie beams are cast (150mm thick would be more than sufficient for a 2 storey house) walls are then built using 150mm hollow blocks, columns are formed every 3 metres by filling a hollow with concrete and dropping in a couple of rebar the roof is then constructed in the usual way.
If you do a search someone has posted some info on this subject.

tertim
tertim
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 am
Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:56 pm

Klondyke wrote:^


This I dare to doubt:
The posts (saus) are very often poured in place and as such are are completely interconnected.


A cursory skip through the building threads here show that the overwhelming majority of builds use poured in place columns. All the builds of houses of more that one story that I have watched going up use them.
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1941
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Bang Saray House Build

Postby FurryFerret » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:51 pm

Hello there. I am reading your house build story with interest as I am in the early stages of designing a house in the Bang Saray area (about 7Km from the sea) and am surprised at the requirement for 6m-8m deep pilings. I was going down the post and rail design with 1m deep pads for the posts. Is the ground in this area really that unstable to require pilings?
FurryFerret
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:56 am

Previous

Return to Your Building Story

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest