Building in Phayao

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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Saffles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:24 pm

Any opinions...

Rock wool batts are about 200 baht per square meter... Good r value and amazing sound deadening...

Question: a .4 Zacs roof is @ 200+ baht per meter cheaper than .5 Colorbond... Would it be better to do Zacs with rock wool? Since rock wool is per square meter it would be cheaper and quieter?

R values are almost identical between the PU foam and the rock wool + attached PE sheet. Probably higher as there would be an air gap between the two.

Oh, just thought of something... A large part of my roofing would be veranda and carport... Maybe forty percent. So I think Zaks plus rock wool would be 60% the price of Colorbond. I will calculated later.

Mark
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:42 pm

Saffles wrote:Met with Bluescope dealer...

Seems my house will be about 450 sq meters of roofing. Have to recalculate those numbers...

They can get Colorbond .50 in white with the PU foam installed for 390 baht per meter.
Zacs 90 in .40 is 180 per meter with PE foam sheet attached.

Roof framing about 375 per meter.

Mark

Colourbond has a 30 year guarantee.
Zacs is a 12 year guarantee.

Also with that roof area you can get it directly from the factory and its big enough for them to send an installation team. Our roof was about the same size and it took just 3 days to install. They sent more profile than was needed but only charged for the exact amount used, they gave us the extra & it's been used in a couple of small projects.

It may have cost a little more but we have peace of mind that it was perfectly installed.

One further point is that you can't use angle grinders to cut the roof shapes you must use shears. If your roof installation team uses an angle grinder then there is no guarantee.
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Saffles » Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:43 pm

Got the BOQ today...

OMG... The prices are too high, really crazy labor charges (I am thinking). I will need to ask questions about some of this to you guys.

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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Klondyke » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:29 am

Not familiar with your previous story, who you got the quote from. However, in Payao you could (and should) get engaged the local workers from the neighbourhood and get quotes (mau) for partial jobs (if OK let's carry on with the next portion). Then having somebody who can look after and it will need your (and your wife's) frequent attention as well. The results will not be much different from the "renowned" company with a remote HQ. Advantage: anything can be easily reprimanded and/or added/modified by direct talk.
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Saffles » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:43 am

Thanks K,

I was thinking of that and discussed with wife our various options. I have already talked with window, roof, and door guys. I need to find out about labor costs more. I am the least unsure of concrete labor costs, and how much time it takes to pour a sau or footing, etc. the labor quote I originally got was crazy for that (I think).

I am in no hurry...

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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Saffles » Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:47 am

Has anyone used 20cm AAC blocks? If so...I know the are load bearing... Can place a steel roof frame on them? Would be for a metal roof. I would have 12 sau that would have to be an additional 2+ meters above the other 39. Might be better to use blocks with a beam on top? 20 cm QCon are about 50 plus shipping now.

Thanks,

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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:37 pm

Saffles wrote:Has anyone used 20cm AAC blocks? If so...I know the are load bearing... Can place a steel roof frame on them? Would be for a metal roof. I would have 12 sau that would have to be an additional 2+ meters above the other 39. Might be better to use blocks with a beam on top? 20 cm QCon are about 50 plus shipping now.

Thanks,

Mark


I would have 12 sau that would have to be an additional 2+ meters above the other 39
English translation please?

Load bearing walls with a (light weight) steel roof seems like a bad idea due to the high winds you get here. The roof itself isn't going to stay on without assistance.

You will need to tie the roof steel to the foundations anyway, which the post and beam structure already does.

So if you're not going to build with Load Bearing Walls (none of your workers will understand LBW anyway) then the 20cm blocks seem quite expensive. Double 7.5cm would be about ⅔ the price while allowing services to be put inside.
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Klondyke » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:50 pm

Saffles wrote:Has anyone used 20cm AAC blocks? If so...I know the are load bearing... Can place a steel roof frame on them? Would be for a metal roof. I would have 12 sau that would have to be an additional 2+ meters above the other 39. Might be better to use blocks with a beam on top? 20 cm QCon are about 50 plus shipping now.
Thanks,
Mark


I do not know what is 20 cm AAC block. If you mean the cement cinderblocks 40x20x7cm made in every village (5 - 6 Baht) you can build a double block wall with distance in-between 3 - 4 cm, i.e., wall thickness 20cm. Then in the corners you can create a concrete columns with vertical reinforcement, on the top a concrete beam with horizontal reinforcement. The steel in the columns and beam will enable a weld connection to any other steel structure (roof).

With the double wall you are free to any shape, any window/door opening. And will save money and lot of time to built an extensive supporting structure and formwork for the usual (in Thailand) concrete beam (taking 2 - 3 months).

Every village chaang pun (3 - 4 people) can do it. Only there is the biggest problem at the beginning: to explain them that you do not want any sau...) They will work either for daily 500 - 700 Baht or by mau (lump sum).

And moreover, with the double wall you will get a Cool Thai House (within 2 months can finish).

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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby BKKBILL » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:26 pm

MGV12 used 20cm AAC blocks on his build in Chiang Mai he said the next time he would be using double walled 7.5 AAC blocks with an air gap. That is what I used and feel it is the most cost effective way to build a highly insulated house here. Most if not all Thai builders are familiar with AAC blocks now. There are several threads here on the advantage of using AAC blocks.
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:14 pm

Klondyke wrote:
I do not know what is 20 cm AAC block.

Autoclaved Aerated Concrete or Superblock, QCon etc 60cm x 20cm x 20cm, it is not a usual stock size. The 60cm x 20cm x 7.5cm is the one that every supplier keeps in stock

If you mean the cement cinderblocks 40x20x7cm made in every village (5 - 6 Baht)
he doesn't

you can build a double block wall with distance in-between 3 - 4 cm, i.e., wall thickness 20cm. Then in the corners you can create a concrete columns with vertical reinforcement, on the top a concrete beam with horizontal reinforcement. The steel in the columns and beam will enable a weld connection to any other steel structure (roof).


The cinder blocks are more expensive to use (add in the cost of sand and cement) and take 2 to 3 times longer to build the same size walls.
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:18 pm

BKKBILL wrote:MGV12 used 20cm AAC blocks on his build in Chiang Mai he said the next time he would be using double walled 7.5 AAC blocks with an air gap. That is what I used and feel it is the most cost effective way to build a highly insulated house here. Most if not all Thai builders are familiar with AAC blocks now. There are several threads here on the advantage of using AAC blocks.


Almost all the walls in the house I'm building are double walled 7.5 AAC blocks with an air gap. All the electrics and water are in the air gap.
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Saffles » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:25 pm

Thanks to all the suggestions...

I am going to keep my original plan:
Double wall AAC block 7.5 in size.
51 columns (sau) ranging from @ 5 meters to 10 meters in height

I trying to figure out the cost of columns per meter and of a labor cost for those and for general concrete work. That is the biggest headache now.

I will sub out all the work and keep track of the different stages. I am in no hurry and will be as precise as possible on each stage.

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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:56 pm

Saffles wrote:Thanks to all the suggestions...

I am going to keep my original plan:
Double wall AAC block 7.5 in size.
51 columns (sau) ranging from @ 5 meters to 10 meters in height

I trying to figure out the cost of columns per meter and of a labor cost for those and for general concrete work. That is the biggest headache now.

I will sub out all the work and keep track of the different stages. I am in no hurry and will be as precise as possible on each stage.

Mark



I am the least unsure of concrete labor costs, and how much time it takes to pour a sau or footing, etc. the labor quote I originally got was crazy for that (I think).


With 51 columns, and I assume 51 footings I would recommend a crane with a concrete bucket at least or even better a concrete pump, and make sure that the first RMC concrete truck gets to you as early as possible with at least 10, possible 15 to 20 people on the day of each pour. You will probably be able to do the footings in one day, the beams another, the floors a third and the columns a 4th, make sure that you over order the concrete (concrete is very cheap in Thailand) and have a place where you can use the excess, if there is any.

Don't try to use site mixed concrete or the bucket chain method.

That's what we did and your house seems quite a bit bigger.
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Saffles » Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:52 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
With 51 columns, and I assume 51 footings I would recommend a crane with a concrete bucket at least or even better a concrete pump...

That's what we did and your house seems quite a bit bigger.


Main Floor is 167 sq mt
The "basement" (ground-level) floor is the same but I think I will not be doing all where the wings are
Veranda is 80 sq mt
Carport is 42 sq mt

My original labor quote was 285,000 for the concrete work!! At 400 per person per day for 20 people that is well over a month...

Crane or pump charge per day?

Thanks,

Mark
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Re: Building in Phayao

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:40 am

Saffles wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
With 51 columns, and I assume 51 footings I would recommend a crane with a concrete bucket at least or even better a concrete pump...

That's what we did and your house seems quite a bit bigger.


Main Floor is 167 sq mt
The "basement" (ground-level) floor is the same but I think I will not be doing all where the wings are
Veranda is 80 sq mt
Carport is 42 sq mt

My original labor quote was 285,000 for the concrete work!! At 400 per person per day for 20 people that is well over a month...

Crane or pump charge per day?

Thanks,

Mark

I don't know the pump price, but the crane we used for the roof was 12,000 per 8 hour day ½ that for 4 hours.
Including a concrete bucket

Actually the concrete quote sound OK as preparation will take about 6 weeks even with a baby Maco to dig the footings.

And your quote is about 9 people per day for 6 weeks possibly some of them being wives, having taken of the crew boss cut
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