House near Rattanaburi, surin

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:52 pm

A quick update on my solar heating system and the early signs are not encouraging, data so far:-

Solar collector in direct sunlight for about 6 hours a day
Incoming water temperature from mains 29 Deg c
Hot water outlet to house 41 Deg c
Temperature of collector coil 50 Deg c

Only the top 15cm of the tank is at 41 Deg c the rest of the tank quickly diminishes to 31 Deg c

My early conclusions are that the thermal convection current is too weak to create a decent flow of water through the system (temperature gradient insufficient ? )

If things don't improve in the next few days I will fit a small circulation pump powered by a solar panel which will run the pump, will keep you posted how it works out.

Pop kan mai
tertim
 
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Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:33 pm

tertim wrote:A quick update on my solar heating system and the early signs are not encouraging, data so far:-

Solar collector in direct sunlight for about 6 hours a day
Incoming water temperature from mains 29 Deg c
Hot water outlet to house 41 Deg c
Temperature of collector coil 50 Deg c

Only the top 15cm of the tank is at 41 Deg c the rest of the tank quickly diminishes to 31 Deg c

My early conclusions are that the thermal convection current is too weak to create a decent flow of water through the system (temperature gradient insufficient ? )

If things don't improve in the next few days I will fit a small circulation pump powered by a solar panel which will run the pump, will keep you posted how it works out.

Pop kan mai

Looking at the position of your return to your tank that result is not too surprising as it is very high.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:12 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
tertim wrote:A quick update on my solar heating system and the early signs are not encouraging, data so far:-

Solar collector in direct sunlight for about 6 hours a day
Incoming water temperature from mains 29 Deg c
Hot water outlet to house 41 Deg c
Temperature of collector coil 50 Deg c

Only the top 15cm of the tank is at 41 Deg c the rest of the tank quickly diminishes to 31 Deg c

My early conclusions are that the thermal convection current is too weak to create a decent flow of water through the system (temperature gradient insufficient ? )

If things don't improve in the next few days I will fit a small circulation pump powered by a solar panel which will run the pump, will keep you posted how it works out.

Pop kan mai

Looking at the position of your return to your tank that result is not too surprising as it is very high.

Hi SW
Thank you for your reply but an explanation of why you think the return pipe is too high would be appreciated, in an early post you provided a link to the guys in nepal who have the same system up and running and their return is high up in the tank in similar position to mine. You mentioned the freezing temperatures in Nepal and this is why I came to an early conclusion that the temperature gradient here in Isaan is insufficient to overcome the friction in the system and produce a decent thermal convection current.

Pop kan mai
tertim
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 am
Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:31 pm

tertim wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
tertim wrote:A quick update on my solar heating system and the early signs are not encouraging, data so far:-

Solar collector in direct sunlight for about 6 hours a day
Incoming water temperature from mains 29 Deg c
Hot water outlet to house 41 Deg c
Temperature of collector coil 50 Deg c

Only the top 15cm of the tank is at 41 Deg c the rest of the tank quickly diminishes to 31 Deg c

My early conclusions are that the thermal convection current is too weak to create a decent flow of water through the system (temperature gradient insufficient ? )

If things don't improve in the next few days I will fit a small circulation pump powered by a solar panel which will run the pump, will keep you posted how it works out.

Pop kan mai

Looking at the position of your return to your tank that result is not too surprising as it is very high.

Hi SW
Thank you for your reply but an explanation of why you think the return pipe is too high would be appreciated, in an early post you provided a link to the guys in nepal who have the same system up and running and their return is high up in the tank in similar position to mine. You mentioned the freezing temperatures in Nepal and this is why I came to an early conclusion that the temperature gradient here in Isaan is insufficient to overcome the friction in the system and produce a decent thermal convection current.

Pop kan mai


You have shown that you will get circulation and a rise in the temperature even though it is significantly less than the 30+ than they get. You can also see that not all of their storage tanks have an inlet so high

IMG_9909.jpeg


IMG_9908.jpeg


They also insulate the storage tanks.

The small temperature difference would make the convection currents minimal so the high position of the return would limit the level of the high temperature thermocline.

I would guess that a larger diameter pipe could be the answer for natural circulation together with a lower hot water inlet.

Your circulation pump might well work with the president setup.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:11 pm

They also insulate the storage tanks.

The small temperature difference would make the convection currents minimal so the high position of the return would limit the level of the high temperature thermocline.

I would guess that a larger diameter pipe could be the answer for natural circulation together with a lower hot water inlet.

Your circulation pump might well work with the president setup.[/quote]

Hi SW
Yes I will be insulating the storage tank once I have my system functioning and running correctly.

The return pipe from the solar collector needs to be as high as possible and not lower as you stated, the temperature difference in the storage tank needs to be as large as possible to produce a decent thermosyphon flow.

A larger diameter pipe might improve things marginally but I have already decided that a better way forward would be a small flow pump driven by a solar panel which will definitely work and produce a good flow of water through the tank.

Will keep you posted once the pump and solar panel are connected.

Happy new year
tertim
 
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Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:35 pm

Builders on holiday for new year hopefully they'll be back early this week, looking good to move in about 2 weeks, the outside we will completed at a more leisurely pace in the coming months.



IMG_20161226_175305.jpg
Main entrance
IMG_20161231_145452.jpg
Kitchen finished just needs a good clean
IMG_20161231_145519.jpg
From the other side
IMG_20161231_145431.jpg
tertim
 
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Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:08 pm

The builder was little late to resume work after the new year but he's back now and work is progressing nicely, we have our permanent electric supply all up and running and our electric tariff should be 50% less.
Yam has organised the Shaman to attend on the 18th to give us the go ahead to move in, I'm happy with that as i can watch the Australian open and see the Andy Murray/Djokovic battle!!


IMG_20170107_170739.jpg
Test fire for my barbecue/Pizza oven
IMG_20170109_174559.jpg
First section of carport base ready for concrete
IMG_20170109_174715.jpg
Tiling well under way should be completed the next few days.
tertim
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 am
Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:27 am

Moved in last Monday the 18th even though we're not finished outside the inside is complete save for some minor snagging and cleaning, I couldn't be happier so nice to be comfortable and warm and a going to the loo doesn't involve a 30 metre obstacle course trying to avoid stepping in the chicken and duck shite!!
We have satellite TV installed but are still waiting for 3BB to install the internet should have been fitted last week!!!!

My solar water heater is performing very well since I changed over to a circulation pump powered by a solar panel, we are getting a full tank (180L) of 42 deg c water which is ample for showers in the evening and still have adequate hot water the next morning. This is an ongoing project and I'm aiming to get the temperature up to 50 deg c with a few modifications will post more detailed information later.

20170118_171750.jpg
Shaman conducting the good luck ceremony.
20170118_174836.jpg
Preparing for the party
20170118_174808.jpg
20170118_171153.jpg
Round and around we go.
IMG_20170119_080358.jpg
Moving in day
IMG_20170121_173142.jpg
Builder almost finished his work.
IMG_20170121_173157.jpg
tertim
 
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Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 am
Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby ajarnudon » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:20 am

Hi tertim
Congratulations on your occupation - glad the Sharman gave his final nod! I am only in the ground prep stage, and I am sure that mine will be a much longer build than yours. Mainly because for the next 14 months I will be working in BKK - a long way from the build in Udon. Just the same, I am amazed at the short length of time time your build has taken - and while I have not been thru all of your posts yet as I have only just found your thread, I will do in due course. What I have seen though seems to be a high standard. I am also keen to do some serious baking post-build and had thought about a traditional brick wood-fired oven, but have decided that a (maybe second hand) commercial gas oven would no doubt be a lot quicker to install, probably cheaper, and certainly more precise. Surprised you put it inside though? Are you harvesting the heat from the flue for the hot water? :lol:
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby edvrijmoet » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:59 am

I have been reading your story about your hot water system.
the last thing you wrote
My solar water heater is performing very well since I changed over to a circulation pump powered by a solar panel, we are getting a full tank (180L) of 42 deg c water which is ample for showers in the evening and still have adequate hot water the next morning. This is an ongoing project and I'm aiming to get the temperature up to 50 deg c with a few modifications will post more detailed information later.

I think you would try to do is getting your water temperature at least at 60 deg. C because of the possibility of Legionnaires disease.
take a look at HTTP://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires'_disease
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:28 am

ajarnudon wrote:Hi tertim
Congratulations on your occupation - glad the Sharman gave his final nod! I am only in the ground prep stage, and I am sure that mine will be a much longer build than yours. Mainly because for the next 14 months I will be working in BKK - a long way from the build in Udon. Just the same, I am amazed at the short length of time time your build has taken - and while I have not been thru all of your posts yet as I have only just found your thread, I will do in due course. What I have seen though seems to be a high standard. I am also keen to do some serious baking post-build and had thought about a traditional brick wood-fired oven, but have decided that a (maybe second hand) commercial gas oven would no doubt be a lot quicker to install, probably cheaper, and certainly more precise. Surprised you put it inside though? Are you harvesting the heat from the flue for the hot water? :lol:



Hi ajarnudon
Thank you for your good wishes it's just over 8 months ago that I arrived in Isaan and we now have a home 95% complete, will now finish off the outside at a more leisurely pace.
I have built two wood burning stoves one is situated in the living room and the other one is a barbeque/oven built into the thai kitchen outside which is under construction right now, I will post more pics next week.
I like your idea of harvesting heat from the stove but it is too far from my hot water tank to consider heat recovery from the flue. :(

IMG_20170107_170739.jpg
Barbeque/oven for thai kitchen
IMG_20170106_160224.jpg
Another view showing oven
IMG_20161210_075832.jpg
Wood burning stove in the living room



Pop kan mai
tertim
 
Posts: 156
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Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:25 pm

edvrijmoet wrote:I have been reading your story about your hot water system.
the last thing you wrote
My solar water heater is performing very well since I changed over to a circulation pump powered by a solar panel, we are getting a full tank (180L) of 42 deg c water which is ample for showers in the evening and still have adequate hot water the next morning. This is an ongoing project and I'm aiming to get the temperature up to 50 deg c with a few modifications will post more detailed information later.

I think you would try to do is getting your water temperature at least at 60 deg. C because of the possibility of Legionnaires disease.
take a look at HTTP://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionnaires'_disease



Hi edvrijmoe
Thank you for the heads up on legionnaires disease I'd completely forgotten the health risk associated with hot water tanks being moderately warm, WIKI suggest a temperature of 60 deg c to kill any possible bacteria. So now 60 deg c is the temperature to aim for, I hope to achieve this by enclosing my solar collector with acrylic sheeting and insulating the pipes to the hot water storage tank.
I've been doing some belated research on You tube where there are many home built solar collectors ranging from the very basic to quite sophisticated systems, mine is a bit basic but I hope to improve on this in the coming weeks.

Pop kan mai

IMG_20161225_121252.jpg
My first thermosyphon attempt was a complete failure, I didn't get any water flow between the collector and water tank( the temperature of the top 20cm was about 41 deg c but this was due to the tank itself being heated directly by the sun and not any thermosyphon flow)
IMG_20170121_173319.jpg
This my MK2 version using 100M of 20mm black plastic pipe with a solar panel and controller powering a small 12v pump.
tertim
 
Posts: 156
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Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:22 am

Building is almost finished only major jobs left are the exterior painting, path around perimeter of house and connecting the gutter down pipes to the storm drains which Yam and myself will complete in the coming months. I will also be building a thai kitchen to house my wood burning oven and a storeroom/workshop next to the carport later this year.

Total spend to date............................................1,175,000.00 Baht .............................B5703/M2
Materials..........................................................825,000.00 .............................B4004/M2
Labour............................................................350,000.00 .............................B1700/M2

House ................120M2
Kitchen................32M2
Carport................54M2
Total.................206M2

Pop kan mai

IMG_20170202_183456.jpg
First bread from my wood fired oven.
tertim
 
Posts: 156
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Location: Rattanaburi, surin

Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby ajarnudon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:59 pm

A couple of fine looking loaves. I bet they tasted great!
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby schuimpge » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:57 pm

tertim wrote:
IMG_20161225_121252.jpg
IMG_20170121_173319.jpg


hello Tertim,

I'd suggest painting the box black on the inside and covering the collector with a glass plate.
It will further improve heating the water.

Another item I'd improve on is to have the water hoses being tied to a steel pipe (from collector to the tank)..Always good to have water-lines as straight and short as possible.

Looks good, I like your experiments with this.

Cheers,
Luc
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