House near Rattanaburi, surin

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:49 am

hello Tertim,

I'd suggest painting the box black on the inside and covering the collector with a glass plate.
It will further improve heating the water.

Another item I'd improve on is to have the water hoses being tied to a steel pipe (from collector to the tank)..Always good to have water-lines as straight and short as possible.

Looks good, I like your experiments with this.

Cheers,
Luc[/quote]


Hi Luc

Thank you for your comments much appreciated, here's an update on my project so far:-

When I decided to build a solar water heating system I had a quick look on you tube and discovered some guys in Nepal had built a very simple solar heating system which I thought would be perfect for me, so with no further research I jumped in and built one to their design!! big mistake, a bit more research would have shown some of the shortcomings of their system and after two attempts was unable to get it working at all.

So back to the drawing board (internet) to build a new system, I rather liked the simplicity of the thermosyphon idea (if it's designed properly) but decided on a pumped system as it you gives you much more flexibility in positioning the hot water storage tank , the only downside being the additional equipment (pump.solar panel, charge controller and differential thermostat)

So now I have my MK3 version up and running and what a difference we get full sun onto the solar collector from 10.00 until 16.00 and have a full tank(200L) of hot water @60 deg c, I still have to fit the glass yet which will increase the efficiency for those not so sunny days.


Pop kan mai

IMG_20170224_085651.jpg
Overall view of the system
IMG_20170224_085637.jpg
The tilting mechanism
IMG_20170224_085603.jpg
Insulated flow and return pipes

IMG_20170224_085556.jpg
Storage tank
IMG_20170224_085545.jpg
Control box
Attachments
IMG_20170224_085618.jpg
Showing the 20W solar which provides power for the control box
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby pipoz » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:18 pm

Hi Tertim

Your wood burning stove is a great idea

I was wondering on whether you have any ideas on how to make a "Smoker", the ones like they use on all those American food shows like "Dinners Drive Ins..."

I am looking to make an small/effective but not expensive Smoke for my soon to be made "home made pork product"

pipoz
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:02 pm

pipoz wrote:Hi Tertim

Your wood burning stove is a great idea

I was wondering on whether you have any ideas on how to make a "Smoker", the ones like they use on all those American food shows like "Dinners Drive Ins..."

I am looking to make an small/effective but not expensive Smoke for my soon to be made "home made pork product"

pipoz

Are you looking to make a hot or cold smoker? Hot is much easier, cold is usually quite a bit bigger and more complex.

I've usually used hot smokers they have been good for chicken, sausages and mackerel.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby pipoz » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:50 am

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
pipoz wrote:Hi Tertim

Your wood burning stove is a great idea

I was wondering on whether you have any ideas on how to make a "Smoker", the ones like they use on all those American food shows like "Dinners Drive Ins..."

I am looking to make an small/effective but not expensive Smoke for my soon to be made "home made pork product"

pipoz

Are you looking to make a hot or cold smoker? Hot is much easier, cold is usually quite a bit bigger and more complex.

I've usually used hot smokers they have been good for chicken, sausages and mackerel.


Hi STWW

I only ones I have seen are presumably Hot. I am not familiar with Cold ones

I will be using it mainly to smoke pork and beef. So any ideas are welcome

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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:01 pm

pipoz wrote:Hi Tertim

Your wood burning stove is a great idea

I was wondering on whether you have any ideas on how to make a "Smoker", the ones like they use on all those American food shows like "Dinners Drive Ins..."

I am looking to make an small/effective but not expensive Smoke for my soon to be made "home made pork product"

pipoz
.


HI Pipoz

I'm afraid I can't help you with your smoker I have no experience of smoking food, sounds like an interesting project though, If it's any help I used 2mm plate for my barbeque and 4mm for the oven. Good luck I would be interested to see your smoker when finished.

Pop kan mai
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:42 pm

pipoz wrote:
Hi STWW

I only ones I have seen are presumably Hot. I am not familiar with Cold ones

I will be using it mainly to smoke pork and beef. So any ideas are welcome

pipoz


Cold smoke usually involves something like a smoke house with the fire well away from it.

Hot smoke does chicken brests in about 20 minutes.

I've got a very small lightweight Primus smoker about 50% bigger than a standard billy can and have used a couple of smokers in Japan that sit on a gas stove, one has burned through from use, I think the other is still OK

I will be making one when I'm here full time.

It will include a smoke box that has a well fitting lid (not a hermetic seal though), a removable wood chipping tray, a drip tray to keep all juices and fat off the base and wood chip tray, one or two SS grids to either put meet on or to hang it from, and SS "S" hooks

All in all quite a simple design and build.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby tertim » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:00 pm

Here's an update on my solar hot water system :-

Fitted some polycarbonate hollow core sheets (global house) 5 days ago, now the collector is reasonably air tight and protected from the wind and hopefully the rain when it comes. Also upgraded the differential thermostat to monitor the temperature in the collector and the storage tank, I have set it to switch on the pump when the temperature in the collector is <5 deg C and switch off when the temperatures are within 2 deg c this ensures the maximum amount of heat is collected to the tank

It has been very hot and sunny the past 4 days with little or no clouds to obscure the sun, so every day by about 15.00 the temperature in the storage tank has reached 60 deg c which i'm very happy with, will have to wait and see how it performs on the not so sunny days.

Pop kan mai


IMG_20170304_145428.jpg
Solar collector now fitted with polycarbonate hollow core sheet.
IMG_20170304_150537.jpg
Differential thermostat showing water temperature in storage tank.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby roy.sokolowski » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:46 am

For a cold smoker all you need is two metal boxes, electric hot plate, and a cast iron skillet. One box is where the meat is placed, the smaller box is attached to the side of the larger box and needs to be big enough to hold the hotplate and skillet (and maybe two feet tall). Pop rivet or screw the two boxes together and make an ~ 3 inch diameter hole in the side of the smaller box (near the top) that goes through to the box where the meats will be placed.

To smoke turn on the hotplate and put a chunk of wood in the skillet. You now have a cold smoker.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:37 am

roy.sokolowski wrote:For a cold smoker all you need is two metal boxes, electric hot plate, and a cast iron skillet. One box is where the meat is placed, the smaller box is attached to the side of the larger box and needs to be big enough to hold the hotplate and skillet (and maybe two feet tall). Pop rivet or screw the two boxes together and make an ~ 3 inch diameter hole in the side of the smaller box (near the top) that goes through to the box where the meats will be placed.

To smoke turn on the hotplate and put a chunk of wood in the skillet. You now have a cold smoker.

Sorry, no you haven't.
First, You need more separation between the two. Yours will provide too much heat
Also if you use a chunk of wood very soon you do not have smoke. You need small pieces or shavings.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby roy.sokolowski » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:05 am

Not going to argue, if you want a lower temp increase the separation with a pipe. We used a smoker setup similar to this to smoke hundreds of pounds of salmon, trout, and smelt growing up in the Pacific Northwest of the USA. A three inch diameter (6 inches in length) chunk of alder or apple wood will smoke for several hours (4-8) with this setup.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby qwerty » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Tertim, could I possibly ask some questions and advice based on your solar water heater experience?

1. What is the diameter of your collector pipework? I have seen some different diameter & size coils of black LDPE in Global House: 2”x50m, 1½”x100m, 1”x200m.
Is there a size you might suggest using, based on your experience?

2. From your photos, your collector looks perhaps two metres high? I initially envisaged putting the collector plate on the roof, three metres high.

3. You used a 200 litre water tank, is it an easily available type, did you buy it from a national DIY outlet for example?
There was some correspondence about the height of the return connection on the tank. I’m under the impression the tank has the same water in that’s circulated from the collector, and they aren’t two separate systems (i.e. a coil inside the water tank to the collector, separate from the domestic hot water)?

4. I assume you didn’t alter the height of the return, as you added a solar powered pump instead?
I saw recently Tool Pro had solar cell array on wheels, with water pump (but no batteries) for 16,000B. That seemed expensive to me, but perhaps it’s the going rate?
It looked like you had a battery and controller for yours. Is that necessary, as the pump only needs to run during daylight hours?

5. You fitted a differential thermometer to control the pump. Any details of the spec of that one, and the price and availability?
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:59 pm

Amorn have solar powered pumps from about 3,000. Probably good enough for the job
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby schuimpge » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:32 pm

You can't run a pump directly from a solar panel.
The panel will give fluctuating voltages from as much as 18v or more, to as low as 1v.
Aside from that, the amperage goes up and down too.

A 12v pump would be destroyed in a couple of minutes with the panel in full sun.
thats why you need a controller to regulate the power from the panel going to the pump.

A system consists of the panel, a controller, a pump (or light or fan or whatever) and a battery.

The controller cost depends on the amperage you need.
Amorn indeed sells a range of 12v pumps. from very small to reasonably large pumps.
Most of them are seaflow brand, reasonable good quality.

For a circulation pump, you'd only need very small capacity, the cheapest listed on Amorn Solar is 750 baht and runs about 1 Gallon p/minute at a max load of 4amps.
This means your controller can be the cheapest version available on Amorn, which is a 5A 12/24v solar controller that cost 580 Baht.
Likely, a 40w 12v solar panel will do the job, which cost 15OO baht (only counting for the pump)..

Add a cheap car battery, since you hardly need any backup power as you mentioned running daytime only and you're done.

Total cost: THB 2830 for the solar setup and lets say THB 500 for a cheap motor-cycle battery.

The charge controller will figure out automatically what type of battery you are using, but you can set that manually as well.
Cheap controllers differentiate between Gel Batteries, Wet Deep Cycle batteries and your normal Lead Acid car/motorcycle batteries.

Cheers,
Luc
Last edited by schuimpge on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby schuimpge » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:36 pm

I'm guessing but the ToolPro setup looks like some groundwater/deepwell pump setup.
Amorn has a variety of those as well. Totally unsuitable for your setup and as I have calculated for you in the first post, can be way cheaper to get it done.

Cheers,
Luc
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Re: House near Rattanaburi, surin

Postby schuimpge » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:33 pm

Just to complete my information:

When building a solar system, whatever the function of it, you start with the appliance you want to use (for example the motor/pump).
You check the power requirements and from there you work your way through the components you need to make that appliance run at the times you need it.

- longest running period without sunshine is one factor for example. Circulation pump running daytime only? Great.. but what if there's little to no sunshine? Current panels sure deliver some power even without sun, but is it enough for your application? If not, then you'll need a battery that can help you through the period of sun-less days.

- So with that battery added to the mix, you need to estimate the power that is necessary to keep that battery full at all times to last for the amount days you figured you'd need.
That will then give you the size of the solar panel you need.

- Charge controller is in that sense the easiest part to choose. Just look at the amps of the solar panel and the appliance connected to it and then choose your controller to match that.

Cheers,
Luc
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