Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:24 pm

pipoz wrote:Hi

Whats the idea/purpose of your RC wall structure

pipoz

Humm. :roll:

Hi Phil, maybe the hint is at the top of the posting as in "security room" :oops: :oops: :?

As to the details of the trusses I leave that to the architect and steel fabricator.

I'm sure that both of them are happier that I leave it to them unless there is a real problem.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:37 pm

Tell me you're not going to sit the RSJ beams for the crane on those badly welded C sections used for roofing? Why not buy heavier gauge box steel in the first place? And steel of various grades and thickness need to go from strongest to weakest and not visa versa. The joints also need to be sealed by welds, not just one side, all four sides. I can hear my Ag Welding Instructor Greg Stokes at Cooma Tech being sick from here.
Pipoz is correct with his joints.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby pipoz » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:34 pm

Sometimewoodworker wrote:
pipoz wrote:Hi

Whats the idea/purpose of your RC wall structure

pipoz

Humm. :roll:

Hi Phil, maybe the hint is at the top of the posting as in "security room" :oops: :oops: :?



Are you planning on building a Nuke :lol:

pipoz
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby eyecatcher » Mon Jan 18, 2016 7:57 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:Tell me you're not going to sit the RSJ beams for the crane on those badly welded C sections used for roofing? Why not buy heavier gauge box steel in the first place? And steel of various grades and thickness need to go from strongest to weakest and not visa versa. The joints also need to be sealed by welds, not just one side, all four sides. I can hear my Ag Welding Instructor Greg Stokes at Cooma Tech being sick from here.
Pipoz is correct with his joints.


Pound to a penny there will be no loadbearing steelwork being carried by roof trusses. The loads needs to carried directly to the foundation pads and thats by sitting the steel directly on top of the concrete columns or casting the cantilevered corbels. (as shown in the sketch ups) Which Architect or Structural engineer would sanction that?

i think you have simply jumped on STW unfortunate choice of wording suggesting that he thinks they are hanging from the roof,when he has not had the opportunity to clarify for us all.

I am in agreement with the construction of a steel truss however that cleated or welded plates should be used over every connecting node, and that can mean 10 on each truss.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby schuimpge » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:03 pm

No arguing on structural design except that the loads to be carried (as per STWW's info) go up to 200kg!
So hanging that from the roof truss..as long as your crane is rated for a max of say 300kg..I would not loose a minute of sleep over it.
It's not a 50t Wharf Crane ffs
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:02 am

schuimpge wrote:No arguing on structural design except that the loads to be carried (as per STWW's info) go up to 200kg!
So hanging that from the roof truss..as long as your crane is rated for a max of say 300kg..I would not loose a minute of sleep over it.
It's not a 50t Wharf Crane ffs

No, but each time the crane is moved it will create stress on the one sided badly welded beams holding up the roof. Over time the weld will not take the load on just one side and will end up splitting along or above or below the weld which will in turn cause the roof structure to become unstable, the tiles to slip and the battens to go out of alignment, which in turn will cause leaks in the roof when it rains.
I cannot see for the life of me what engineer would even pass the crane gantry sitting on top of the roof trusses without being anchored through to the columns and footings. Those RSJ's are by far larger and heavier and carry more weight than the badly welded C sections. They should have the proper support, the architect should know that, the engineer should know that and the steel "fabricators" should know that. For the amount of money shelved out for those wonderful RSJs there should have been more thought put into the design by all three.
STWW could have created a mobile crane on wheels for a quarter the cost and twice the lifting power.
It's a grand idea that I had in my workshop in Australia that meant I could move heavy welders, motors and steel fabrications with ease and at no damage to the roof structure. I love the idea, but I hate to see something so grand become just another trashed brilliant idea because either the Thais don't understand or don't want to understand and don't give a s**t about a man's dream. The gantry could even be extended out from the loading bay so that wood could be lifted off the back of trucks.
Tell me a roof truss that is rated to carry 300 kilos plus 200 kilos as well as the weight of the tiles and the weight of those RSJ's and then, after you've thought about it tell me I'm wrong.
I've always believed that if an idea has great merit, which this does, then it should be done properly. I hate seeing a half-arsed job done on such an important piece of "machinery".
This is not pick a fight with Roger because you don't like him, this is simple engineering with load weights.
Last edited by Roger Ramjet on Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:05 am

Double post caused by anger.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:36 am

pipoz wrote:
Sometimewoodworker wrote:
pipoz wrote:Hi

Whats the idea/purpose of your RC wall structure

pipoz

Humm. :roll:

Hi Phil, maybe the hint is at the top of the posting as in "security room" :oops: :oops: :?



Are you planning on building a Nuke :lol:

pipoz


No, but I am planning on having one room that with a good steel door and locks will resist anyone but the most determined thief.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby schuimpge » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:19 am

RR, don't get your panties in a bunch.. not going to argue with your explanation and sure not picking a fight..
Still thinking that the construction guys and the architect do know that hanging it from the roof is not going to be ok but that STWW has not received the details for that.

Fully agree and wondered also why not build a mobile gantry crane from steel with castor-wheels anyway. Can move around easily and a couple of thousand baht would get you a lifting capacity of at least 1 ton without very expensive construction.

Cheers,
Luc
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:38 am

To Roger Ramjet, eyecatcher, and schuimpage I think that the points you are missing is that there are pictures of a work in progress. It isn't a finished project. So at the moment you're being a bit premature, don't you think ;)

As to the scenario envisioned by RR. Hummmm is the best response at the moment, as 2 of the problems just can't happen

While I note with interest the points about reinforcing the junctions and will check with my architect on the importance. I think that is not likely to be needed. All you have to do is take a look at the roof of any DoHome parking area.

Or even the structure under, do note that reinforcing if present is very small and that the truss structure I have is much more robust.

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Light weight trusses ;)


As to a mobile crane, I did consider it but declined to take up the space needed. The current plan uses no floor space.

Up to now my architect has produced a structure that has a large safety margin and his steel team have yet to demonstrate incompetence. So I will wait to see the results.

The specification for the crane was to carry up to 500kg to 750kg, with the intention of never going much over 200kg to 300kg so there seems to be a sufficient safety margin there.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:35 pm

For those who don't want to go out to look at roof structures

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An example of a DoHome or ThaiWatsadu roof


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18th January and back to the regular programming

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Electric supply down the post
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:57 pm

19th January.

Some new information the big I beams are not related to the crane that will be coming later. They are going to be bridging the parking area and car ramp. I'm not sure about the smaller ones

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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:04 pm

20th January



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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby BKKBILL » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:26 pm

Looking good Jerome. Guess all the CTH engineers jumped the gun a tad.
It's not who you know, it's whom you know.
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Re: Workshop and house, Non Sa-At ½ way between KK & Udon

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:45 pm

BKKBILL wrote:Looking good Jerome. Guess all the CTH engineers jumped the gun a tad.

Too true, but maybe a goo dexcuse for

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