Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Any story related to building in the LOS, whether everything turned out hunky dory or not!

Moderators: MGV12, BKKBILL, fredlk

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby kiwimartin » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:51 am

1.Morning gentlemen. Worried - a little, but plan to carefully vet and treat the timber. The house is mostly concrete (aluminium/pvc windows) and there will be quite a trek for the wee bastards to get to the ceiling - I hope we will be able to cut them off at the pass with a ground level anti-termite system...they don't fly, do they? If I could find 2-3 m laminate wood planks I would probably go that way. That said, the ceiling is an aesthetically important part of the build. Appreciate your input. Thanks

2. Thaicbr, you planted a seed in my brain the other day. I dismissed your observation and then went away and thought more about it....your idea was a good'un! A sliding door system slinding behind the outer block skin of the house really appears to work. And as sliding doors are up to half the price of folding it becomes an added incentive. So many thanks!
Like this...
Concealed sliders outside.jpg

concealed slider inside.jpg

Reducing the number of windows from this
Folding Doors 2.jpg

to this
p1 sliding doors upvc.jpg

meaning the facade of the house will look like this..
model03_08 hidden doors.jpg

HEKTA replied quickly with a 'yes' it can be done. Multi track doors on an oversize frame with all doors sliding. The real issue might be weather sealing, but I am excited by this possiblity.
kiwimartin
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:19 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby fredlk » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:12 am

A set of 6 metre wide UPvc bi-folds that I saw in a showroom cost 210,000 Baht in 2009. I fitted all my aluminium windows and doors with 6 millimetre glass for about 110,000 Baht.
kiwimartin wrote:The real issue might be weather sealing

I have one set of doors with a minimum roof overhang of about 60 to 80 centimetres and when the rain comes in sideways it finds its way in between the panels. Nothing can stop it, but as I have tiles there and no furniture, the small amount of water doesn't do any harm. Once the rain stops it dries up within an hour or so. Everywhere else the overhangs are 1 metre and more and so this doesn't happen.
User avatar
fredlk
 
Posts: 5879
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby kiwimartin » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:34 am

Hi Fred, I too have a 2m+ overhang over the doors - so it will help for sure. The best of us all obviously have big overhangs!
Thanks for the prices. The first set of doors above were quoted for sliders in uPVC at B333,000. having reduced the number of doors I should be able to reduce this further. That price include another double slider and 5 180 x 60cm awning windows.
It appears to me the difference between the better quality aluminium and uPVC is diminishing.Hope so!
kiwimartin
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:19 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby fredlk » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:44 am

I notice you're planning doors of 220 centimetres height. I planned for 240 centimetres but after the frames are in the effective opening is only 230 centimetres.
User avatar
fredlk
 
Posts: 5879
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby kiwimartin » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:52 am

Hi Fred, As I am only 180cm should be ok...no?
Actually I lowered the doors and wall heights deliberately in the planning stage - I wanted a hunkered down look so that I can sit the house 'into' the hillside.
When you move into the house from the deck the ceiling height will 'open' up the interior (like an Aladdin's cave...maybe).
kiwimartin
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:19 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby fredlk » Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:12 am

kiwimartin wrote:Hi Fred, As I am only 180cm should be ok...no?

I'm sure it will be, but I mentioned it just in case you hadn't thought of it.
And anyway anyone here over 210 centimetres tall must be a tourist.
User avatar
fredlk
 
Posts: 5879
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:11 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:17 pm

kiwimartin wrote:1.Morning gentlemen. Worried - a little, but plan to carefully vet and treat the timber. The house is mostly concrete (aluminium/pvc windows) and there will be quite a trek for the wee bastards to get to the ceiling - I hope we will be able to cut them off at the pass with a ground level anti-termite system...they don't fly, do they?

Sorry to say but yes they do fly :cry: they also can burrow through concrete. Although they prefer to make earth tubes to protect themselves from drying out and from light.

The house next door was concrete but had a wood soffit and wood beams for the roof, all the wood was eaten away till the roof fell in.

YMMV
Sometimewoodworker
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:22 pm
Location: Non Sa-At / Tokyo

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:58 pm

Termites fly to new locations, but normally don't like light, hence the tunnels they build on the outside of things they can't bore through. Don't forget insects are not just boring out tunnels in wood, it's their food for breakfast ,lunch and dinner. Then theres the beetles that attack seasoned timber or all kinds, even if it's been treated ,as most timbers will only allow surface treatment to penetrate, regular inspections are the best thing. Then there are some timbers that are naturally resistant to insects, but not many, Huron Pine ( Very light colour) Jarrah (Dark reddish brown) are a couple that I know about.
Mike Judd
 
Posts: 1403
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:31 am
Location: Church Point Sydney N.S.W. Australia. Khon Kaen

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:04 pm

Squiggly Gum in Australia is also insect and rot resistant and used as strainer and gate posts without the need for treatment. It's easily identified because of the bark which is attacked by termites and other insects and you can see the lines or tunnels runnning all over the bark of the tree, but once that is removed the wood itself will last for years.
Mountain Ash is also termite and insect proof. The problem is cutting through it. It will ruin a chainsaw chain in 5 minutes and circular saw blade in less. You can bounce an axe off it and splitting it is near impossible, but it will last for years. Ask any old timer about felling one of the trees and they'll just shake their heads. Even if cut properly it can and will twist and fall where ever it wants. Very dangerous that tree. It has killed and maimed many an unsuspecting logger.
To be honest after my experience with the wood in Asia it expands and contracts too much to be used other than for decoration..... or to feed the termites.
You can buy sheets of some "sort of wood" at Thai Watsadu (I was told it was rubber tree, and about ten other names) that look like parquet and has been joined, glued or pressed together. I have used them in all my indoor door surrounds and they are excellent. They're also great for making cabinets, workbenches etc.
User avatar
Roger Ramjet
 
Posts: 5250
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:55 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby gippy » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:17 pm

Roger Ramjet wrote:To be honest after my experience with the wood in Asia it expands and contracts too much to be used other than for decoration..... or to feed the termites.


All wood expands and contracts to some degree. I think the problem in Thailand is that the furniture is not built to take this into account. I see cross grain glue joints, table tops glued and nailed onto bases, wide rails joined to a stile with a single tenon and so on. There is a lack of knowledge of proper furniture making techniques.

Roger Ramjet wrote:You can buy sheets of some "sort of wood" at Thai Watsadu (I was told it was rubber tree, and about ten other names) that look like parquet and has been joined, glued or pressed together. I have used them in all my indoor door surrounds and they are excellent. They're also great for making cabinets, workbenches etc.


It is rubber wood, usually known as 'mai para' I believe. It has it's uses and is handy because it comes in a consistent thickness and only needs a light sanding. It looks like cr*p though with too much colour and grain variation, is difficult to evenly stain, bends and twists a lot when cutting up the big sheet and if you leave a piece untreated outside it will be eaten by ants in a few weeks.
User avatar
gippy
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:57 am
Location: Bangkok

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby Klondyke » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:06 pm

gippy wrote:All wood expands and contracts to some degree.


That's right. Even teak that is considered by most people as very stable will expand/contract. When you live in a province where the rainy and dry seasons are recognized, you will see the difference on the doors. Sometime during rainy season you cannot fully close the door. However, it can be minimized - slowed down - by a very good primer sealing and surface finishing.
Klondyke
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby Klondyke » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:39 pm

gippy wrote:It is rubber wood, usually known as 'mai para' I believe. It has it's uses and is handy because it comes in a consistent thickness and only needs a light sanding. It looks like cr*p though with too much colour and grain variation, is difficult to evenly stain, bends and twists a lot when cutting up the big sheet and if you leave a piece untreated outside it will be eaten by ants in a few weeks.


It sounds very strange in a "land of golden teak", however, rubberwood (mai yang para, hevea brasiliensis) is nowadays the most used wood for woodenware (kitchenware, tableware, furniture, various wooden parts, handles) in Thailand, mainly for export. When I drove some 25 years ago down to the south end of Thailand, I was surprised seeing in many villages slow wood burning, mostly for bricks firing. Haven't known that rubberwood is abundance everywhere around. After some 20 years of exploitance the trees are felled and replaced by new saplings, that can be started to be cut within some 6 years.

And the rubberwood had been found as the best replacement for beech wood that had been generally used for ages in Europe for the home products. It has similar texture, very few knots and is very easy for machining,joining, surface finishing. Sometimes the products are in US marketed on their packages as "beechwood", who cares.

The trees when felled are to be very fast brought to the saw mills, otherwise the insect will be very happy to find them. The saw milling is provided on large band saws - it looks quite dangerous - the trees are not very straight and not very thick, so the board lengths are rarely over 1.2 m and the widths rarely 5". Immediately after sawmilling it goes in pressure vessels for impregnation and afterwards it will be kiln dried.

1307150014.JPG
Every evening the number of fingers is recounted

1307150016.JPG
Impregnation vessel
Klondyke
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby Klondyke » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:56 pm

As the rubberwood board are never available as very long, for a larger furniture the boards are finger-jointed, something what can be seen in T-W. Short cutoffs 20 - 30cm long are on their ends milled as sharp fingers for connection into a long piece. Then the long pieces are joined by their sides into a width of a large desk, quite very stable.

The rubberwood things are OK once they are not exposed to direct sunshine. Then the rubber residuas come onto the surface, looking somehow quite dirty (one transparent lacquered). You can see it somwhere at the coffee corners where they have a ceramic container set for sugar, creme, etc, with rubberwood lids.
Klondyke
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby Klondyke » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:43 pm

gliffaes wrote:are you not worried about termites?


I am surely quite worried. A good help against termites (pluak) is a primer paint Dry Shell (not sure about the spelling - all locals know that under this name, there are few kinds). This is very necesary on the downside of the boards - not exposed - especially when it comes into a contact with a concrete surface. The termites like to work there secretly in a dark.

The termites attack even the teak structures or clading, unless the teak is not older than 200 years. I had the pleasure within 6 months at a NZ pine clading in my present house (described in a thread My house No. 12), when the bottom of the boards has not been treated by the Shell Dry (and not properly looked after the workers).

06081202.JPG
Pluak - termites - extermination


This is the part of the inside clading shown next to stairs in my picture in the previous page, the boards had been quickly (temporarily) replaced by acacia as shown, no time last 8 years to make it somehow better.

SAM_6482.JPG
The termites invaded the NZ pine clading around the stairs left and right, the room with the floor directly on the ground was freshly made.
After extermination the NZ pine walls and ceiling are quite OK, sofar 8 years
Klondyke
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:40 pm

Re: Koh Phangan Coconut Build

Postby kiwimartin » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:39 am

Quite a lot of excitement over the dreaded termites...so, no-one uses wood for anything anymore? The termites will need to start eating...something else.
termite.jpg

I know, I know.
Had a great time Soi Mae, Bang Sue, looking for tongue and groove ceiling boards today.
kiwimartin
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:19 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Your Building Story

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest