Building in Bang Khla

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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Alan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:39 am

I’m trying to get the contractor to include a change in the design of the house floor beams without incurring any extra expense. I will let you know the outcome.
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Floor_Beam_Rebar.jpg
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Alan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:43 am

Please disregard the last post
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Alan » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:44 am

I’m trying to get the contractor to include a change in the design of the house floor beams without incurring any extra expense. I will let you know the outcome.
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House_Floor_Beams.jpg
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Roger Ramjet » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:53 pm

Alan wrote:The garage floor is 15cm/6inches so I am wondering if this is sufficient for an anchoring point? The weight would still be transferred to the underlying beam, just not directly connected.

I've watched this many times previously in Thai builds. Normally the owner of the thread will say his builder knows what he's doing or he's addressed the problem then ignores it, or else you see them drilling into set concrete and inserting rebar 6 inches and then claiming their mate's an engineer and he said it's okay as long as they fill it with epoxy resin.
Fred, one of our deceased members would not hear any wrong with his Thai builder, architect or "supervisor" and disaster after disaster continued to happen.
An easy way to show where all the weight will go to your builder or your supervisor is to place a plank of wood where you want the stairs, then place a block of something heavy on it and watch it slide to the ground, then beat the builder over the head with the block of something heavy, and the supervisor the plank of wood so they never forget again.
Drilling into the set concrete is a nasty method. Personally I'd make them bust it back to the rebar and attach it properly so that the weight is carried at the top and at the bottom of the stairs, with the most weight (force) at the bottom. There are a number of photos in my build with precise explanations. My builder No. 1 was smart enough, if he didn't know he asked, which meant he could steal more money and equipment off me quicker, but he got things mostly right the first time and I was there every day with that lump of wood to make sure. :D :D
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby eyecatcher » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Whilst RR is quite correct with the process to anchor an insitu flight, its not the be all and end all.

By far the most common method of constructing concrete stair flight in the UK would be as a pre cast; so it comes in sections.

Each section is simply dropped onto a blockwork plinth or steel shelf angles or a simple lintel.
The toe at the bottom,normally about 2 inch deeper would be restrained by primarily 4 anchored plate brackets into the concrete floor.
A 2 inch concrete screed would then cover the floor and really stop any movement.

So, at your stage, get it right with 3 or 4 longitudinal rebars from the front toe and up the undercarriage, and do the same from the landing down. dont rely on a sheet of mesh for the undercarriage, I have seen them at only 2 inch thick (carriage thickness) when they should be 4 inch really.

if you do miss out for whatever reason, then get them to bolt a 3 inch shelf angle at the top prior to the final concrete topping
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Alan » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:29 am

There are two issues with the stair beam placement:
1. There is no rebar protruding out of the stair beam and;
2. The length of the stairs has been extended.

I have not talked to the contractor about how to anchor the base of the stairs. There are 9 stringers in the front porch stairs. If the contractor anchors the stringers by drilling into the garage floor and using epoxy, I don’t have a problem with that. In the Army, when building parking areas in a motor pool they often do this to connect the multiple slabs of cement.

I do not know the length of the stairs all the calculations. I have asked the contractor to provide these measurements.
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Front_Porch_Stairs.jpg
Original Stair Design
Front_Stairs.png
Original
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:50 pm

Alan,
I can see a number of issues, but can't address them especially with the drawings as they are.
The first issue is what is in the slab? Did they actually put in rebar and trench mesh, or was it the usual Thai builders effort of forgetting and doing a runner when the slab falls to pieces in 12 months, or like mine changing his name twice.
The second issue can be fixed, if the first issue hasn't happened yet. make the builder put down columns where the stairs will bottom out. That will solve all the problems.
The third issue is the missing rebar running vertically through the horizontal rebar in the steps......there appears to be none.
The forth issue is the Vertical 10cm support. I can see one will okay but the other will just be an ornament if there's no rebar and trench mesh in the slab.
The US Army Corps of Engineers would have got around these problems by using wood, but this being Thailand, there's going to be too many issues.
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:11 pm

Alan if you start here you'll see how my builder put in two flight of stairs, one inside and one out to the garage.
You'll see the rebar protruding out of the floor on both of them and the additional rebar and trench mess we used to tie it all together.
It's a pretty simple thing if the builder has remembered the rebar at the top and bottom. The bottom stairs outside had four 25 metre deep piles to tie into, whilst the inside stairs had a beam with rebar sticking out to sit on.
There should be enough explanations along with the photos. There was a lot of members all involved in my build. :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1864&start=570
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Sometimewoodworker » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:00 pm

Alan wrote:There are two issues with the stair beam placement:
1. There is no rebar protruding out of the stair beam and;
2. The length of the stairs has been extended.

I have not talked to the contractor about how to anchor the base of the stairs. There are 9 stringers in the front porch stairs. If the contractor anchors the stringers by drilling into the garage floor and using epoxy, I don’t have a problem with that. In the Army, when building parking areas in a motor pool they often do this to connect the multiple slabs of cement.

I do not know the length of the stairs all the calculations. I have asked the contractor to provide these measurements.


RR has illustrated a way to construct stairs, but I think your plan looks much more like the way our stairs were built

IMG_0584.JPG


Starting near the end of http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4890&start=85
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Alan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:41 am

Sorry, maybe I confused everyone. I was writing about the contractor changing the length of the stairs and posted photos of what we had discussed in the plan. I only posted side views of the stairs but the design is almost exactly as STWW posted.

here are a few more photos. they are not the best shots but you have to understand my photographer is an 18 year old kid using the camera on his phone.

one is the floor beams for the garage. Still have to pack and vibrate the fill dirt

the other is just a shot of the house footer columns. They filled in the footing holes which still need compacting.
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3.jpg
House Foundation Columns
2.jpg
Garage Floor Beams
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Alan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:22 am

Well after they leveled out the dirt I can see that he did run rebar out of the floor beam for the stairs.

More truckloads of fill coming next week to preparation for placing the "skim coat" of cement under the house.
Attachments
Stair_Rebar.jpg
Somewhat hard to see but there is rebar for the front stairs coming out of the beam
8.jpg
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:23 pm

To be honest Alan it appears the builder did a Thai thing to keep you happy. That's no beam, that's just concrete pored on earth with rebar stuck in it. I had to be on site the whole time, otherwise I'm sure the same would have happened to me. My builder even claimed he hired a special builder to show them (again) how to lay the superblock, but he was really the swimming pool man's brick layer and he wasn't all that good.
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:23 pm

To be honest Alan it appears the builder did a Thai thing to keep you happy. That's no beam, that's just concrete pored on earth with rebar stuck in it. I had to be on site the whole time, otherwise I'm sure the same would have happened to me. My builder even claimed he hired a special builder to show them (again) how to lay the superblock, but he was really the swimming pool man's brick layer and he wasn't all that good.
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Alan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:29 am

RR, I'm not sure what you mean when you say "That's no beam, that's just concrete pored on earth with rebar stuck in it." This is a 20cm x 40cm beam tied to a footer column, tied to a footer pad, tied to a 12m pile. I'm just happy he ran some rebar out of the "beam" to tie the bottom of the stairs to.
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Re: Building in Bang Khla

Postby Roger Ramjet » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:17 pm

Alan wrote: This is a 20cm x 40cm beam tied to a footer column, tied to a footer pad, tied to a 12m pile. I'm just happy he ran some rebar out of the "beam" to tie the bottom of the stairs to.

I'm only going by the photo and what appears to be. All the other beams have nice square edges and are a uniformed height. In the photo the "Beam" seems to be lower at one end and the concrete seems to have run into dirt all the way along, leading me to surmise it was the builder's way of doing a quick fix to "keep the farang happy". I could be wrong but I've seen it done like that on other builds here. Fred's being one that comes to mind. His foreman used to take similar photos and it wasn't until Fred finally went down to his build that he saw the mess he had been denying for weeks.
There's also way too much rebar in that "beam" unless you have a plan for a huge staircase that leads up 20 flights of steps.
Sorry Alan, what I see stands.
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