Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ...

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Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ...

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:54 pm

Guys, I definitely need some advice here.

At the Farmhouse where I stay, it belongs to the parents. It's a typical wooden structure, built 20 - 30 years ago with wooden posts into the ground in the Bangkok mud. As the money as available, the dirt floor was concreted over and a large living and sleeping area was created.

P8200024LR.JPG
Part of the area to be enclosed


I have the opportunity (gun placed to the Temple by my girlfriend) to make a room for us at the Farmhouse. Recently, she gave me a rather large concession, so this small build I'm OK with.

The build will happen so no relationship advice needed … thanks.

We desire a family and the room will be basically for mother and kid/s ... should/when that happens.

Bedroom Build.doc
Simple plan of some of the work to be undertaken
(22 KiB) Downloaded 36 times


Being on the mud, the house has slowly sunk over the past 20 or 30 years since it was built. So for a scale, maybe 1 cm on one corner, 3 cm in another. I'm not here to address the sinking ... I'm only to construct a bedroom with a life of maybe 10 + years ... after that ... don't care.

Also, it’s not my land, nor my dwelling … never will be … so costs to a minimum.

Oh … the final nail in the coffin is that I will pay … but not be there when it’s built ... :roll: … thought you’d like that gem.

Below, in different posts, I’ll ask specific question and it might be easy for you to reply to the individual questions below ...

A ) WALLS (external) – Block (which type) or steel posts and Sherawood or …

B ) WALL (internal) – Block (which type) or steel posts and some sort of board … maybe fibro sheet

C ) Roof Insulation

D ) Render?

E ) Internal wall lining

F ) Windows

G ) Floor

H ) Internal window … how to fix

I ) Electrics

J ) Lights

K ) Door

L ) Fan vent

M ) General

O ) Other … something we haven’t thought of

All advice received is appreciated in advance though ... remember, I not seeking advice on what you built at your place ... but advice on what you would suggest given my Opening Post.

OH ... the room has no plan for Air-conditioning, now, or in the future.

My budget to build is B50,000 - B70,000 ... but fully expect the upper figure to be easily obtained!

We have a builder already lined up. Friend of the family (yes, I know the horror stories) has built for the Farm Family before.
Workmanship = OK ... have seen some of it, he's built at the Farm before for the Farm Father.
He lives across the Klong.
B500 a day.

Trusting relationship with the both the gf and Farm Father ... though that will be tested over the next 6 months ... :lol:

Oh, I do follow-up with my posts and will do my best to show what we did and the reasons why we chose what we chose.

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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:07 pm

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A ) WALLS (external) – Block (which type) or steel posts and Sherawood or …

So, because we are on Mud the weight of the walls are important.

The gf is no dummie and has also researched out a bit herself.
Came up with Q-Con, because it's light and will reduce the load ... but relatively expensive.

Also snakes are an issue and I know that she wants at least a few rows of blocks to the base of the construction if we then go and use Sherawood with Metal posts for studs.

Currently, the external cladding is that very thin wood which has deteriorated due to the weather and the termites.

P8200019LR.JPG
View of the two walls to be replaced


Speaking of weather, the walls get virtually no direct sunlight due to generous roof overhand and the shady trees so the insulative effects of a cavity wall with an air gap and/or insulation is not a necessity. Remember, the room won't be air-conditioned.

So, if we go the block wall route ... Q-Con, standard Thai concrete block or other?

Has this been debated before? If so, the link please.

Q-Con is more expensive on a per sq2 basis but requires less foundation.
Does Q-Con have to be rendered?
I've read the stories of builders throwing away the special glue/adhesive and using ordinary cement.

Thai concrete block ... relatively, cheap as (inexpensive) ... but being cement, relatively heavy and requiring maybe extra footings.
My preferred option ... but an open mind on this.

Sherawood with Metal posts for studs.

I quite like the look. a tough brittle if knocked the wrong way.

master-tem160x130.jpg
master-tem160x130.jpg (3.2 KiB) Viewed 758 times

Comes pre-painted in a nice variety of finishes.

Being an external skin only, will need an interior lining, this a higher cost.
http://www.sherasolu...n/series/30118/

Other ... ???
.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:11 pm

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B ) WALL (internal) – Block (which type) or steel posts and some sort of board … maybe fibro sheet. See Opening Post for the simple plan.

So, we will have to build an internal wall ... maybe 7 or 8 metres long from memory.

Most likely no window but an entry door.

Don't really fancy digging up or maybe even allowed to cut the existing slab for footings.

That part of the existing structure seems to be the most stable so the options are block (of one sort or the other) or metal studs with what lining? Don't really want gyrock ... dry wall I think the Yanks call it.

Will a 3 ply (wooden) sheet be eaten by termites?

What about a laminate of some description?

Other ideas?

.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby fredlk » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:20 pm

For 70,000 Baht you won't be getting much at all. Most of what you mention is too expensive, especially steel. I suggest you first ask the person who will be doing the building what he can do for 70,000 Baht.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:20 pm

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C ) Roof Insulation

Definitely not using the spray on stuff.

P8200023LR.JPG
You can see the roof tiles


So the idea is to remove the existing wooden batons and replace then with steel ones and then use insulation batts.

The use of the steel batons is so that they won't get eaten by the termites.

Most likely position and hold the batt insulation in-place with chicken wire, or that really cheap black shade cloth or the like.

how-to-insulate-a-house-10.jpg
For some reason, there are precious few graphic examples to demonstrate ... this one is for underfloor insulation, so essentially the same principle.
how-to-insulate-a-house-10.jpg (38.26 KiB) Viewed 748 times


Also, I'm thinking of laying the insulation, foil side up (towards the roof tile) to both reflect the heat and to protect the insulation in-case some leak occurs.

Is there a thread where the Insulation, as in Batts is discussed? Link Please.

Thoughts?

With the steel batons ... what dimensions are they and does anyone have a link to a web site so I can view them? Any idea on cost? /m2 ... or per length?

All the advice is always warmly appreciated ... :D

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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby fredlk » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:22 pm

Maluckyday wrote:Is there a thread where the Insulation, as in Batts is discussed? Link Please.

Too many to list here but there is a search function on this forum.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:25 pm

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D ) Render ... if we use block and not the Sherawood.

To render or not to save money?

Paint the outside?

Recommendations?
.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby fredlk » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:26 pm

Maluckyday wrote:Recommendations?

See above.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:28 pm

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E ) Internal wall lining

Sort of a sister question to Part B )

If we go with steel posts and Sherawood ... what type of interior lining to use?

The gf mentioned Gyprock ... I recoiled at the idea.

I have it at home, great stuff to work with ... but unstable footings (maybe), finishing issues, termites eating the paper (I've read) ... but if there are good reasons to use the stuff ... I have an open mind.

But if not Gyprock ... then what dry wall lining to use?

Fibro Sheet?

Suggestions?
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:33 pm

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H ) Floor

Now the current floor is that standard smooth/polished concrete ... but it has a definite sway like a drunken sailor.

I'm punting for lino or linoleum ... just like in the OP photo ... but, of course, one sheet for the floor. Things are less likely to break if dropped, easy to clean, easy to upgrade if we win Lotto.

... but she (who will be obeyed) whose thoughts are considered in the build would love the fancy tile, like you see in the nicer hotels. 'she reckons 400B a m2, not laid ... humm ... not sure.

You know the ones, they are a lightish brown colour, maybe 500 x 500 and if you don't by the seconds and actually buy the retail quality, when laid, almost have no grout in the joins.

I'm yet to be convinced ... :roll:

When you are levelling a floor, do you have to etch/chip the existing smooth concrete when you apply a skim layer?
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:54 pm

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F ) Windows

Most likely go for the Aluminum Framed style.

Insect screens, of course.

aluminum-window-sections-500x500.jpg
Trying to decide between the standard sliding window ...


and maybe one of ...

Aluminum-Window-ALU-02-.jpg
Or the Opening style which 'catches' the breeze.
Aluminum-Window-ALU-02-.jpg (12.17 KiB) Viewed 728 times


I figure the 'Opening style' are more expensive.
.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:00 pm

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H ) Internal window … how to fix?

Currently there is an internal opening between the existing wall and built bedroom and where we wish to build.

P8200025LR.JPG
There is no glass, just broken flywire/insect screen and the security grill.


That wall will become an internal wall for the new bedroom once repaired there will no window there ... it's the parents bedroom ... :cry:

Do we just infill and make a feature of it?

Resheet the whole wall?

Suggestions?

.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:07 pm

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I ) Electrics
Is it worth putting a separate earth spike in the ground and connecting it to the Earthing circuit.

I'm used to the Australian system where they ground the neutral bar. Is that how it is in Thailand ... or there is there no set method?

Must admit, I'm a bit concerned as I was leaning on the fridge in the photo and standing on the wet towel on the concrete floor and got a real good buzz as my hand slid over the frame of the metal fridge where the paint had peeled.

The Thai gf said ... don't worry ... just unplug and turn the plug 180o and it will be fine ... blink.png

She did, and I haven't had a zap since ... though I'm much more cautious now.

What does worry me is that the GPO / PowerPoint in question is one in the area where we enclose, thus part of the circuit.

P8030016LR.JPG

As you can see, no earth provision.

The fridge has no earth, thus one presumes that it should be 'double insulated' ... well, in Australia it would be ... how about Thailand?

What freaked me the other night was when were sitting there and the whole power circuit blew. not a worry, in it's self, though what caused it surprised me as I'd never seen it before.

P8030015LR.JPG

The termites had chewn through the cable.

Sure, I've seen rats and possums etc do that ... but termites ... :shock:

Is it a common problem in Thailand?
How to prevent that?
.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:09 pm

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J ) Lights

What's the current thoughts on lighting?

In all of the cheaper Thai builds I've seen, the light fittings really let the place down.

Currently, the Farm uses either 2' -20 watt fluros ... or the 4' ones ... very sparingly.
.
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Re: Enclosing a downstairs bedroom ... need advice please ..

Postby Maluckyday » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:11 pm

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K ) Door

What do you guys use for an internal door?

The plastic doors are used mainly on Bathrooms, so you you use a hollow core wooden door?

What about the door frame? Wood or metal?

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