Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby unclezillion » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:08 am

You should also be aware that concrete/cement will rot unprotected copper whereas stainless steel will be fine!
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby MGV12 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:40 am

unclezillion wrote:You should also be aware that concrete/cement will rot unprotected copper whereas stainless steel will be fine!


Valid point ... copper must always be sheathed if embedded in cement-based products.

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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby newhomepages » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:49 pm

Thanks for the suggestion of the green plastic hot water pipe. We have considered it. Originally we were going to use electric hot water heaters in the two showers, upstairs and downstairs, so we didn't put hot water pipes up through the floors when they were poured. Then I changed to solar hot water warmed on the roof. This means that in some spots the pipe will have to be on an exterior surface which fits into our industrial design with exposed electric conduit and few areas with drop down ceilings - mostly you can see the bare concrete surface on the ceilings. I like the exposed metal conduit, but not the plastic pipes so areas where there is blue plastic water pipe have drop down ceilings to hide it, but that is kept to a minimum. To avoid more drop down ceilings we want the hot water pipe to look like just more electric conduit. Actually, the galvanized pipe looks more like the conduit so we might use that.
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby newhomepages » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:51 pm

unclezillion wrote:You should also be aware that concrete/cement will rot unprotected copper whereas stainless steel will be fine!


I didn't know that about copper. What about the galvanized metal water pipes?
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby newhomepages » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:19 pm

Here's is a shot from today showing the face with scaffolding removed for the first time.

1-20.jpg
A clean face.


1-21.jpg
Stairway to heaven.
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby unclezillion » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:59 pm

newhomepages wrote:
unclezillion wrote:You should also be aware that concrete/cement will rot unprotected copper whereas stainless steel will be fine!


I didn't know that about copper. What about the galvanized metal water pipes?


Galvanised should also be sleeved as it is galvanised iron which is soft. Even galvanised coatings break down after a number of years, Water tanks with white spots are the signs of the galvanised coating breaking down. Please note that the copper council and others say that copper is fine in concrete but i have seen it decayed or decaying to many times for it to be coincidence,
Anything less than stainless steel should at least be sleeved going through walls ( expansion) & I would also wrap it under concrete
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby gliffaes » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:31 am

unclezillion wrote:
newhomepages wrote:
unclezillion wrote:You should also be aware that concrete/cement will rot unprotected copper whereas stainless steel will be fine!


I didn't know that about copper. What about the galvanized metal water pipes?


Galvanised should also be sleeved as it is galvanised iron which is soft. Even galvanised coatings break down after a number of years, Water tanks with white spots are the signs of the galvanised coating breaking down. Please note that the copper council and others say that copper is fine in concrete but i have seen it decayed or decaying to many times for it to be coincidence,
Anything less than stainless steel should at least be sleeved going through walls ( expansion) & I would also wrap it under concrete

We use copper a lot in the Uk although plastic is used more now due to speed and price. I have seen copper buried in concrete and leaking due to corrosion which involved digging up a kitchen floor at the time.
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby MGV12 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:07 am

gliffaes wrote:We use copper a lot in the Uk although plastic is used more now due to speed and price. I have seen copper buried in concrete and leaking due to corrosion which involved digging up a kitchen floor at the time.


So have I and have always wrapped copper pipe but the 'official line' differs:

http://www.copperinfo.co.uk/plumbing-he ... ldings.pdf

http://www.copper.org/applications/plum ... crete.html

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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby BKKBILL » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:29 am

If the pipe is completely encased in most cases there should be no problem but if passing through concrete a problem. I’ve run hundreds of miles of the stuff for in slab heating experiencing most leaks where the copper exited the concrete floor. It’s slight movement and thermal expansion that breaks down the copper at that point. All plumbing codes I’ve seen call for sleeving.
Another thing is pipe wall thickness under slab in Canada by code is type "K".
Copper tube of type K are thick walled, much thicker than type L and M and are used for domestic water supply in ground and under concrete.
(1.65MM for 3/4" pipe) Have no idea of wall thickness here.

Don’t think using copper piping for a water supply is the best or most cost effective way to go but farangs are a strange lot, just ask any Thai.

Also from
http://www.copper.org/applications/plum ... crete.html

It is completely acceptable to bury/embed both hard drawn and annealed copper water tube in concrete. Decades of satisfactory service experience with the use of copper tube for in-floor radiant heating systems, water distribution systems and snow melting systems attest to the compatibility of copper tube embedded, encased or in contact with concrete

The copper tube must be completely embedded in the concrete and adequate provision for thermal expansion should be provided where the tube enters/exits the concrete.

It is also acceptable to run a copper water tube through a concrete floor or wall, provided that allowance is made for the lateral thermal expansion and movement of the tube and protection of the tube from abrasion. This can be done by insulating the tube where it passes through the wall or by wrapping the tube with an approved tape (to avoid abrasion) and installing it through a sleeve. Please refer to your local plumbing code for specific requirements regarding the protection of pipes and tubes passing through concrete and masonry floors and walls.

Both of the protection methods outlined above and the requirements listed in most plumbing codes are simply to protect the copper tube from the fatigue and wear caused by thermal expansion and movement. These protective measures are in no way dictated by the interaction of the concrete and the copper tube.

According to the Portland Cement Association the interaction of copper with both dry and wet concrete should not cause a corrosion concern. However, copper should be protected when it comes in contact with concrete mixtures that contain components high in sulfur, such as cinders and fly-ash, which can create an acid that is highly corrosive to most metals including copper.
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby unclezillion » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:51 pm

i have 35 years of experience telling you not to take the chance. You spend $50 or less to ensure that you do not get copper rot!
I know what I would do!
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby BKKBILL » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:34 pm

unclezillion wrote:i have 35 years of experience telling you not to take the chance. You spend $50 or less to ensure that you do not get copper rot!
I know what I would do!

Know what I did and that was to use PP-R for my hot water piping, The thing I regret is not using it for the cold water. Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. :mrgreen:
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby newhomepages » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:00 pm

Finally, I uploaded galleries of pictures from the beginning of the construction to recent days. Please check them out here:
http://newhomepages.com/chronology/
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby newhomepages » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:13 pm

Now the house has its own Facebook page! At the risk of sounding desperate, please "Like" it.
http://www.facebook.com/thewavehome
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby Drand10 » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:05 pm

Beautiful home..well done! How many total SM is this home? Very custom..I like it.
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Re: Building a Modern Home in Bangkok

Postby newhomepages » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:35 am

Drand10 wrote:Beautiful home..well done! How many total SM is this home? Very custom..I like it.


Thanks, Drand10. It is a little under 150 square meters, but if you include the roof and other decks I think it is over 200 square meters. The flat roof recovers almost the entire footprint of the house in useable outdooor space. This was really important because I want to do solar projects, gardening, vertical farming - and the view's great from up there!
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Walk-in closet with "ranaeng" walls to help airflow through the house.
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