Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby MGV12 » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:38 am

Superb creation ... well worthy of the magazine feature.

Hope you will keep us informed of the "much better" project whenever it happens.

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby Nawty » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:39 pm

Must come visit again soon....now that it is famous and all.
conwood is not real wood.....break it down 'con' to deceive...'wood'
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby Smithson » Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:24 pm

The cost of entry has gone up since your last visit.
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby Nawty » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:30 pm

2 chickens ??
conwood is not real wood.....break it down 'con' to deceive...'wood'
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby Smithson » Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:18 am

Nawty wrote:2 chickens ??

Dead or alive?
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby qon » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:32 am

Sawatdee

I have a question for anyone in the know :) as I looked and read about bamboo use in construction, bamboo is a versatile material but it seems to be medium term (5-10years) use. It is almost treated as natural plastic. To add on any value to it, in strength, bug resistance, finish; the costs go up approaching other alternatives and as ecstatic but that is more long lasting. The traditional way of treating bamboo is to soak them in big ponds for over 2 months (try and error) and let bacterias do the work eating the goodies, depriving food for other bugs later. The modern chemical, natural products or otherwise does not get rid of the goodies that bacterias and bugs feed on. But that is not the problem, because it can be scheduled in within the process, the big problem is securing the supply of quality bamboo to make it a viable medium scale bamboo treatment production. We trialed a small production over a couple of seasons, even pay 10-20% on future stock to the villagers, but like many other crops, in bad time they will come to you in good time you won't get the stock as agreed. Sorry, I side track here !

My questions: how fire proofed is the thatch? such risk is minimal in out houses and short term buildings. I like the idea of using it in the main house. We have trialed successfully with rice husk for insulation; once dry it is bug free, fire resistance and good thermal insulation + air circulation. With the thatch, we test them; the denser packed (pictures attached) it can be lit but will smoulder rather than spread quickly; so early detection is a must (they do spread when at some point when critical heat is reached 15-30mins), with humidity retained in the thatch they smoulder.

Is this true? as we observed but not extensively researched. It can be treated with fire proof chemical but that is another story. Someone mentioned about the thatch wear down, you simply patch it and stack more on top very 2 years or so. Bugs don't like to eat them, in some traditional houses you see white dust from borers, but it is from the timber. There is a misconception also that bugs don't like hard wood, they do! the harder the tastier, it is just it takes time and the structure therefore will take time to be compromised.

I like to modernize the traditional construction method and materials with the new age technology.
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby Klondyke » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:55 pm

qon wrote:Sawatdee
My questions: how fire proofed is the thatch? such risk is minimal in out houses and short term buildings.


Hi,
I have read that alum (aluminium ammonium sulphate) can be used for improving of fire protection of wooden structures. Perhaps it could work with bamboo etc., have the things soaked in a high concentration of alum diluted in water.

Alum is easily and cheaply to get in Thailand - known as SaanSom - used as flockulator of ironized water - my case, describing it in one thread, how to get a strongly ironized water ready for a swimming pool. An ancient material for drinking water treatment, a stick for stopping bleeding after razor shaving, also as a desodorant that does not block the pores.
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby qon » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:59 pm

Hi,
The problem is with the thatches, they last only up to 2 years and wear down, that is the part that will burn more quickly. It is pretty hard to burn the bamboo as is.

Will try your "Saansom" or "hinsom" ? "hinsom" is used to clarify water, more alkaline to precipitate and collect particles in water.


Klondyke wrote:
qon wrote:Sawatdee
My questions: how fire proofed is the thatch? such risk is minimal in out houses and short term buildings.


Hi,
I have read that alum (aluminium ammonium sulphate) can be used for improving of fire protection of wooden structures. Perhaps it could work with bamboo etc., have the things soaked in a high concentration of alum diluted in water.

Alum is easily and cheaply to get in Thailand - known as SaanSom - used as flockulator of ironized water - my case, describing it in one thread, how to get a strongly ironized water ready for a swimming pool. An ancient material for drinking water treatment, a stick for stopping bleeding after razor shaving, also as a desodorant that does not block the pores.
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby Klondyke » Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:15 am

About "Alum" is quite plentiful info on web, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum

As I know it from North, it is generelly known as SaanSom, all villagers know it. I have been using it for many years, for my ironized water, as is mostly the problem with drilled wells. Describing it in viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4611

They sell it in bags, not only in chemie shops, either as large crystals - it looks like a piece of ice, or crushed as a pulver.

For a thermal insulation, in some cases I had used wooden sawdust (as I get it free). E.g. in between of double concrete block walls. Also filled in bags laid on ceilings or stuffed under roof construction.

Most of the town houses built in Thailand (and sold not very cheap) are without any thermal insulation under the roof.
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby canopy » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:51 am

I have thatched many a roof and had such high hopes for it, but I have come to the realization it is not suitable for Thailand. First let me tell you what I love about it: it's beautiful, cool underneath, and natural. I love listening to the wind pass by it and watching the rain drip from it. In my area they sell just yaa kaa which is the thin grass (see below photo of one of my projects). Note there are other types of thatch grass in Thailand with different attributes. Here are the problems with yaa kaa.

1. Cost. It costs more than modern roof panels made of modern materials delivered to your home. Thatch needs absolute minimum 4 panels per square meter and better yet double that or more. Prices are approaching 20 baht a panel rapidly. Over a 15 year periods, modern roof panels are a one time job. Thatch you have to do it all over 5 times. So you are talking 400-1000 baht a square meter--plus labor.
2. Longevity. 3 years only. The grass frays and deteriorates even in high pitch roofs. The splines are typically made of bamboo and the bugs turn them to sawdust rapidly.
3. Labor. Having to do it over and over again is a drag. And some bamboo ties break now and then and need repaired. Not fun when it is very high and hard to get to.
4. Fire. Throughout Thailand are annual man made fires and then there are little kids shooting bottle rockets here and there. These are major show stopper issues. Thatch roofs are steep and high meaning easy to catch fire and hard to get to for putting out.

thatch.jpg


Now a bit about bamboo. I use bamboo frequently and will do more with it in the future. But here are a few issues you should consider before starting your project people may not tell you about:

1. Cost. In my area they don't even sell bamboo. Eucalyptus poles are cheaper, stronger, longer lasting, and easier to work with. Bamboo is generally obtained from sides of fields or stolen from forests by poor people.
2. Bugs eat bamboo rapidly; often in just a few years. There are many treatment strategies. Treating them yourself can be time consuming, expensive, difficult, and requires you build the proper know how. For instance, in one common method every single node needs a hole drilled through to get the treatment coverage needed and weeks of time spent treating.
3. Bamboo can't be sunk in the ground such as a post if you want it to last more than a year
4. Labor. Bamboo is hollow, round, tapered, bent, and impractical to clamp. It's difficult and time consuming to do joinery compared to wood. And pulling gigantic culms out of thick groves is no picnic.
5. Longevity. Bamboo structures in my area last just a couple of years before they blow over. Posts are almost never bamboo as they last even less time. The main culprits to longevity are rot, bugs, wind, and improper design.
6. Selection. Bamboo poles generally need to be 3-5 years old, of a suitable species, and should only be harvested at the proper time of year.
7. Time. Bamboo shrinks considerably. It needs a long, shaded drying time to prevent massive splitting and allow for tight joints.
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Re: Bamboo Eco House, Nakhon Nayok

Postby Smithson » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:39 am

Regarding thatch, I pretty much concur with everything Canopy says. Besides the cost, replacement is a messy hassle. With longevity we got 4 yrs this time, I think 6 isn't so hard. But we are using 'bijuck' as opposed to grass. I think it might be called 'nipa' in the Philippines. I don't think there's any feasible way of fireproofing.

In terms of bamboo, many of the problems listed by Canopy can be solved thru design and use of mature bamboo, which I think would last as long as eucalypt, be stronger. lighter and come in much longer lengths. Environmentally bamboo wins hands down. Sure treatment is required for permanent structures, but this is the case with many timbers used in the tropics (which also can't be used sub soil). Even immature teak will be attacked by beetles. The main structure for our house took 5 workers, 5 weeks, so not bad really.

Supply is definitely an issue, which is a shame, because I believe plantations could be profitable. In our area there are plantations of small diameter 'Pai Liang', but this is not the case elsewhere.
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