PVC Windows and Doors

Information about windows and doors.

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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:05 am

Jazzman,
jazzman wrote:Interesting, Roger. If the steel is completely embedded in the PVC, and the coreners are correctly PVC welded, how does it rust, and how do you know it's rusting?

I wrote about PVC windows during my build, the following happened: My builder took me to a shop that supplied windows and doors. I wandered around while my wife did the talking as all the windows were specified by plan. I found a "demonstration" PVC window display and played with the windows, two wouldn't open (wind out type), the third did (side opening, hinged at top and bottom with a stainless steel rod through the window frame), it was rusted. The reason the first two wouldn't open is because they were rusted too. I wasn't going to buy PVC after that. If you like I'll drive all the way out to the shop and take photos of their display unit.
What does FWIW mean?
jazzman wrote:Atilla has high quality PVC doors and windows in his house for many years now, and he's never mentioned any problems to me - and I'm sure he would.

I have no idea who Atilla is, besides being the hun.
I take it you sell PVC windows which I don't happen to like for the above reason. I much prefer aluminum sliders ..... they can't rust..... and they're twice as cheap.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby jazzman » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:23 am

If you're living in Pak Kret it's almost certain that the PVC stuff you saw wasn't the imported German Thyssen that's made by a farang company in Pattaya and who did His Majesty the King's new windows in the royal palace in Hua Hin. Probably some cheap kit from China.

Attila is one of the moderators on this site. He has the Thyssen PVC doors and windows. I don't sell PVC doors and windows, or any kind of doors and windows - being nearly twice the price of top quality aluminium, although the price of doors and windows is mostly dictated by the cost of the glass, it's out of reach for me and I wouldn't consider any cheaper brand of it.

FWIW = For what it's worth.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:02 am

Jazzman,
The cheap kit from China (PVC windows) costs twice as much as high quality white powder coated aluminum windows. And after looking at the PVC windows on display I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I actually went back to page 50 of my build and besides the normal jibes there were some interesting comments..... and at that stage I knew absolutely nothing about glass, windows, PVC, aluminum and doors, however I knew what I wanted even then and I'm pleased I did. I have no complaints what so ever about aluminum sliding doors and windows as long as they are high quality white powder coated aluminum and come with fly screens.
jazzman wrote:PVC stuff you saw wasn't the imported German Thyssen that's made by a farang company in Pattaya and who did His Majesty the King's new windows in the royal palace in Hua Hin. Probably some cheap kit from China.

As the Thai king is not only the richest monarch in the world, but also is the richest man in Thailand I'm sure he had no budget for the architectural nightmare of his 49th palace in Hua Hin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Th ... residences Why he would choose Thyssen PVC doors and windows over something supplied by a local Thai is beyond me. So much for sufficiency economy.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby jazzman » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:41 am

I don't suppose for a moment that His Majesty the King is in the slightest bit personally interested in who puts the windows in his new office or where they come from. It's probably simply assumed that everything has to be the best, and that rules out any local Thai PVC stuff, or cheap kit from China.

Attila's house is the only house I've ever seen with PVC, and I must admit it's very clunky and solid. Personally I have the top grade extruded epoxy powder coated aluminium, glazed with 6mm light green tinted glass and got the whole house done (lots of windows and doors) for well under Baht100K. Still looks new after 7 years, and for the siding doors there are no runners on the floor to get filled with dirt, and the spring/shockabsorbers for the swing doors are invisible and no threshold plate.

Personally I can't think why anyone would want PVC doors and windows. I may be old fashioned, or simply psychologically biased against plastic because plastic for me evokes 'cheap & tacky', but I'm probably wrong - they even make airoplanes out of it nowadays.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby Mike Judd » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:34 pm

I repeat, My expert ? should know what he is talking about. he is some one who installed windows and doors in new buildings and replacing the same in old buildings. Most of this before China made anything besides chop sticks, ! so they were not cheap imports. He said it was condensation that was the reason for the rusting process. Some of our more scientifically educated members (Certainly not me) could perhaps clarify whether it's possible for condensation to occur in a so called sealed unit or would it require some access for the air to enter. I do know though that P.V.C. windows were used at one time in a Sydney high rise office block that I worked on 45 years ago. They were called Plasteel but never caught on to that degree compared with first, bare aluminium , then Anodised ,either plain or copper coloured which stopped the corroding especially near the sea, to finally all the Powder coated sections that are the preferred material world wide.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby jazzman » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:59 pm

I must admit that I don't really know anything scientific either about plastics. I do know that many so called 'UV protected' ABS swimming pool fixtures and fittings from China have gone yellow from exposure to sunlight, and even brittle. I can't figure out either why steel sealed into plastic should go rusty from condensation, although it's highly possible that some exposed parts on a demonstration section may have.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby Roger Ramjet » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:25 pm

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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby jazzman » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:07 pm

Hmm... very interesting - especially the bit about Nong Bua Lamphu.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby MGV12 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:25 pm

jazzman wrote:Hmm... very interesting - especially the bit about Nong Bua Lamphu.


Not 'Rocket Science' nor even 'UPVC Science' ... just elementary school science. Most of us these days refer to a window as a piece of glass mounted within a frame; or maybe two pieces in a cool temperate zone of three pieces above the Arctic Circle. The glass ... if is more than one piece ... should be hermetically sealed in order to offer effective protection against the migration of heat ... UV ... sound ... and most certainly water. The frame however ... dependant upon the manufacturer and market ... may well be built to a far lesser specification of sealing. If it's UPVC, and made by a reputable manufacturer, the steel embedded [to give some rigidity to a weak plastic frame] should be at least galvanised to provide some protection against rusting. In Thailand it is very rare to have more than one pane of glass in your windows and the majority of buyers shop from a price point of view ... and so ... it should be no wonder that those manufacturers who cater for that basic fill-a-hole-that-lets-some-light-in needs don't bother to use anything other than 'naked' steel. Nor do they consider the ingress of water from the sky in a country that has an abundance [in Nong Bua Lamphu as in any other location] at certain times of the year.

If your windows are exposed to the rain then specify decent quality aluminium ... or well-protected old teak ... for longevity.

A search on Google will bring forth thousands of bad experiences with UPVC windows ... here are some opinions from a random pick: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/new ... ionID=5957

“Some days I am an optimistic pessimist ... other days I am a pessimistic optimist”
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby Mike Judd » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:30 am

Well that Chicago expert site was interesting Roger, ! and definitely convinced me that I made the right choice with Powder Coated Alloy windows and doors. I did look at the Windsor P.V.C. stuff and quite liked the chunky profiles etc; but as mentioned was put off by my window guy back here in Oz. On the subject of glass ,I was surprised he never mentioned the big problem they had with toughened glass a few years ago in all the curtain wall office blocks around the world. Various windows were exploding into small pieces and showering down into the streets below when the sun was in certain positions. Research came up with the explanation that in the manufacturing process there were minute particles of Nickel Sulfride (Hope I have that right) in the glass and depending on their size below or above a pin head, they expanded with the right amount of temperature, exploding the glass. They more or less established that if the glass had not exploded with in so many years it was O.K. Taking photos at night with special equipment showed them the size of the particles and therefore the likely hood of them exploding (Probably----maybe---or certain) but no one obviously would give any guarantees so they gave up and went for the wait and see option. In the mean time here in Sydney, the council made the building owners of the ones affected ,put protective awnings out from their first floors where ever the public walked. They must have solved the problem in the toughening process since because it hasn't occurred in any of the newer buildings . I made a lot of money out of it putting up Swing Stages for all of the inspections and repairs though, so I had no complaints.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby oil » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:19 am

is there some overview of comparing prices with the known uPVC Double Glass window manufacturers here in thailand.
i have a pricelist from http://dekuthailand.com/ from last year and French Style 1500 x 1200 Casement Windows goes by the price of 17.000 Baht per piece which is quite a shocker to me.

So i really would like to explore other manufacturer
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby Mike Judd » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:25 am

I really can't see why anyone would go past finding their local aluminium window maker and installer, he comes out and measures the holes you have left out ,shows you the various profiles, powder coated (best) or anodised, usually a light section or a heavier one ,different thickness of glass, tinted or not, all depending on how much you want to spend and prices accordingly. Plus of course Casement/Double hung or Sliding which are usually the cheapest, especially if you want screens, which I did, not having Air-Con at all.
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby pattayapope » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:43 am

oil wrote:is there some overview of comparing prices with the known uPVC Double Glass window manufacturers here in thailand.
i have a pricelist from http://dekuthailand.com/ from last year and French Style 1500 x 1200 Casement Windows goes by the price of 17.000 Baht per piece which is quite a shocker to me.


To my knowledge only Windsor have branches all over Thailand, I have used DEKU and Windsor on my build and both gave good service and resonabale quality but I dont have any double glazed windows ( which are a big price adder). There are quite a few companies making double glazed windows now, if they are using local or Chinese made profiles they will all be about the same price, but if they use German imported profiles it will be 50% or more than those using regionally sourced materials. If you Google the companies you can get a quote and compare prices.

Good luck in sourcing a lower price :D
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby oil » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:20 am

pattayapope wrote:
oil wrote:is there some overview of comparing prices with the known uPVC Double Glass window manufacturers here in thailand.
i have a pricelist from http://dekuthailand.com/ from last year and French Style 1500 x 1200 Casement Windows goes by the price of 17.000 Baht per piece which is quite a shocker to me.


To my knowledge only Windsor have branches all over Thailand, I have used DEKU and Windsor on my build and both gave good service and resonabale quality but I dont have any double glazed windows ( which are a big price adder). There are quite a few companies making double glazed windows now, if they are using local or Chinese made profiles they will all be about the same price, but if they use German imported profiles it will be 50% or more than those using regionally sourced materials. If you Google the companies you can get a quote and compare prices.

Good luck in sourcing a lower price :D

can you point me into some direction from where to get Local / Thai or Chinese made decent quality windows, i really dont need the profiles to be imported from Germany, however double glass windows i would prefer to have a lot.

cause of
Image
Image
So i think the difference between double glass window and single is rather super huge and crucial
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Re: PVC Windows and Doors

Postby pattayapope » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:36 pm

A company a couple of friends used call EuroPVC had some of their windows with double glazed panels and were very happy with the results. You should be able to Google the company and get some quotes, also ARC group do UPVC windows but not sure if they use imported German profiles only or have both options. I am not sure about the double glazed panels what type of gas they have between the layers either just google both companys and get thme to provide a quote.
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