Al windows: frame or no frame?

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Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Max&Bee-in-CM » Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:50 pm

Working on getting a few quotes for all our AL windows. A question has come up, and the answer has been lost in translation from T to E.

One of the shops was kind enough to draw a picture (enclosed) - there are 2 options - to have a 5cm large frame around the window, or not to have one.

The top part of the picture shows the frame window type, with the AL thickness of 1.2 cm

The lower part of the picture shows the frame-less window type, where the AL is 1.5 cm thick (the 1.2cm is possible, but not strong).

What I am trying to understand, is why use the 5cm large frame, if one is not required? Is the frame-less widow strong enough? Has anyone used them?

The frame windows comes in at 145,000 baht for the whole house, the frame-less windows at 135,000 baht for the whole house. Which should I use? Thanks....
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby geordie » Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:37 am

max i went with the frameless 1.5 and the stuff flexes like mad given the size of the windows
you are putting in heavier profile can only improve things ask for him to show a sample strip
of a meter or so on each profile see how it feels and look if it will fit asthetically its a beautiful build so far hope you reach your deadline
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby fredlk » Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:09 am

Max&Bee-in-CM wrote:The frame windows comes in at 145,000 baht for the whole house, the frame-less windows at 135,000 baht for the whole house. Which should I use? Thanks....

I think with the frame. Your house is large and the more visible profile on your windows the sturdier and better it will look.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:00 am

Max and Bee,
I have 1.5 (at least) aluminium frames on my doors and windows but that is because they are sliding. What are frameless windows? Just glass?
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Max&Bee-in-CM » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:56 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:Max and Bee,
I have 1.5 (at least) aluminium frames on my doors and windows but that is because they are sliding. What are frameless windows? Just glass?


For the frame-less, I am also trying to understand what it will look like, I have not seen a house with them! I guess that means it is not used much, probably because it is prone to bending. Will visit the AL shop again and try to see more samples. I guess fame-less are just glass with a little AL to guide at the top and bottom, and terminate at the walls.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby dozer » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:01 am

IMHO the framed option is a better choice. Have experience with the white 1.2mm and 1.5mm aluminum windows with frames. The frames ad sturdiness and are very attractive esp with the white aluminum.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby BKKBILL » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:02 am

On my extensions here in BKK we have framed sliding windows. In Mai Rim Thaifly has frameless. I was able to compare both and will be doing frameless on my new house in Mae Taeng.

Think the ones with frame then the architraves will be a bit much. Frames also reduce the glass size.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Max&Bee-in-CM » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:06 am

geordie wrote:max i went with the frameless 1.5 and the stuff flexes like mad given the size of the windows
you are putting in heavier profile can only improve things ask for him to show a sample strip
of a meter or so on each profile see how it feels and look if it will fit asthetically its a beautiful build so far hope you reach your deadline


Geordie are you able to post up a close-up picture of your window AL please? I have not seen frame-less installed anywhere, am curious how it looks.
When you say flexes, is that now or before you installed it? Does the rendered window brickwork need to be very straight and perfect?
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:30 pm

If someone posts a picture of frameless, I'll post a picture of framed. Never heard of it.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby geordie » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:52 pm

Max&Bee-in-CM wrote:
geordie wrote:max i went with the frameless 1.5 and the stuff flexes like mad given the size of the windows
you are putting in heavier profile can only improve things ask for him to show a sample strip
of a meter or so on each profile see how it feels and look if it will fit asthetically its a beautiful build so far hope you reach your deadline


Geordie are you able to post up a close-up picture of your window AL please? I have not seen frame-less installed anywhere, am curious how it looks.
When you say flexes, is that now or before you installed it? Does the rendered window brickwork need to be very straight and perfect?
Picture bee 3152.JPG
house in bkk no decent pictures of chayaphum


the frame around the window reveal is almost non existent and as you slide the window it flexes like mad even at chayaphum the profile is heavier and the windows are doing the same probably a combination of poor metal poor fitting i would have liked to see a return edge on the profile to stop it flexing the actual frame
around the glass is larger than neededin my opininion again poor metal it seem a lot softer than aluminium in the uk and a lot lighter in thickness
i am assuming these are the "frameless"
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Max&Bee-in-CM » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:30 am

Roger Ramjet wrote:If someone posts a picture of frameless, I'll post a picture of framed. Never heard of it.


I am off to the AL shop today to try to see again the AL profile for frame and frame-less - if they let me take pics I will post them up.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Roger Ramjet » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:44 am

Max and Bee,
The only frameless glass I have seen is in my dining room cabinet. It certainly doesn't flex as others have said. It also slides on ball bearings. Its also been toughened so it won't shatter.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Maseratimartin » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:58 am

If you go for a frame...make sure the frame is rigid or it will bend and block...not slide nice....look for the better quality!

Frameless means for me really without frame....everything in between is just to save further money and should not really help on the long go.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby Max&Bee-in-CM » Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:43 pm

I got some samples of the 2 type of windows.

The first picture shows a 1.2mm thick AL "frame-less window" - the small frame is attached directly to the render, and is virtually invisible. Since
there is actually a frame, what they call frame-less i would call small-frame. Since the support structure is so thin, 1.2mm AL must be used. It is screwed
directly into the render around the window:

IMG_5637.JPG
very thin frame


The next picture shows the full or thick frame version - this can use 0.8mm, 1.0mm or 1.2mm AL, since the frame provides structure, one can save
some costs with thinner AL. The frame protrudes about 5cm from the rendered wall:

IMG_5638.JPG


This shows the 2 side by side - the side part is the thick frame, the bottom the thin frame-less version:

IMG_5639.JPG



Because we will have an internal wooden frame around the windows (to cover the render around the window), we need to use the thick frame version
of the windows. Otherwise, they will sink inside the wood, which would look terrible.
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Re: Al windows: frame or no frame?

Postby geordie » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:13 am

the thinner version is what i got and it is a <minor edit for language - MGV12> but it was what was offered and all i had seen so limited the decision glad you are going for the bigger one max the extra profile
should add a great deal to the strength and to be honest the frame holding the galss is so mutch bigger why the smaller one ???
other than its easier for them to work with
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